Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

[EOA]

Thoughts on why the recording stopped on Libby’s phone after the 43 seconds?

Intentional, Unintentional, turned off by perp, mechanical incident?

It would seem if the phone kept pinging into the night that it did not run out of charge on the bridge as was considered a possibility earlier..

 

[layer]

Oh this makes me wonder if the girls crossed all the way over the bridge BECAUSE RA creeped them out. Was he lingering around there as Libby was getting a photo of Abby? Was it awkward so they just decided to cross all the way over thinking surely the older creepy guy wouldn't cross that bridge. Then he did. That would certainly raise my suspicion enough to record him.

It seems like the girls and BG would have had to cross paths that day, unless he was lurking off-path somewhere watching them pass by. I recently read that the girls weren't overly concerned during the entire 43 second clip, engaging in "girl talk" or something like that for some portion of it.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I wonder if JG will have RA transported back and forth from Wabash Valley Correctional every day or will she have him housed somewhere closer? He wasn't safe in Carroll Co. and he apparently was not safe in White Co., either.
Will she put him in Cass Co, where they said they would take him and keep him safe months ago?

 

[nadia90]

That would be awesome!
RA's ammo of choice appears to be the cheapest aluminum-cased junk money can buy. I doubt any of that would have serial numbers on each casing. But many people purchase the small 20 round boxes of self-defense ammo for use in SHTF situations or daily carry.

ah you are entertaining indeed!

 

[layer]

Thoughts on why the recording stopped on Libby’s phone after the 43 seconds?

I'm wondering if it was simply a hard time limit on videos going to a server. What are the time limits on videos uploaded to those tiktok and snapchat sites, or what was it in 2017?

 

[layer]

I wonder if JG will have RA transported back and forth from Wabash Valley Correctional every day or will she have him housed somewhere closer? He wasn't safe in Carroll Co. and he apparently was not safe in White Co., either.
Will she put him in Cass Co, where they said they would take him and keep him safe months ago?

Flown in daily by black helicopter from an undisclosed location.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Flown in daily by black helicopter from an undisclosed location.

I wouldn't doubt it.

 

[AugustWest]

Isn't the clincher on the bullets the striations from having been chambered in the same weapon? Controversial science but certainly compelling. Proof? Maybe it does or doesn't reach that threshold but taken as a whole? That's a lot to overcome, multiple confessions notwithstanding.

JMO

There are several different types of striation marks created on both casings and the actual projectile fired from the casing. There are chamber marks, ejector marks, extraction marks, and firing pin marks. See below for more detail:

Striated Action Marks- FirearmsID.com

Forensic Firearms Identification is a discipline of Forensic Science that has as a primary concern to identify fired ammunition components as having been fired from a specific firearm.

www.firearmsid.com

The problem here is that the studies which have been used to peer review comparisons of these striations (often called toolmarks) have used spent cartridges, as opposed to unfired, as in RA's case. The chamber striations change and become more pronounced when the pressure within the firing chamber rises as a gun is fired. Thus, the comparison becomes less reliable. Further, most comparisons use not one type of striation mark for identification, such as some combination of the four types mentioned above, which also increases the reliability of the comparison.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I know it’s not popularly accepted but while acknowledging that a lot of evidence oints toward RA’s guilt, I personally am not convinced RA did change the timeframe of his being on the trails.

We’ve been told that officer DD recorded 1330-1530 in his very early interview though unfortunately there seems to be no recording and it’s hard to say 5 years later what the exact question was or what the exact answer was.

MOO since LE on 2/14/17 asked persons on the trail the prior day between 1:30 and 3:30 to voluntarily come forward, it makes sense to me that the opening interview question from DD would’ve been “So..you were in the trail in the 1:30-3:30 range?” If RA answers any of Yes, or About then, or Part of that time, then DD would note “1330-1530” in the affirmative. It’s a much different question and answer if DD did in fact ask RA to state his arrival and departure times and RA did in fact say he arrived at 1:30 and left at 3:30 - but we don’t know the phrasing and without a recording we won’t know for sure what the phrasing from 5 years earlier was. If RA all along felt like he left around 1:30 (thus not changing his times) DD could still have noted it in this manner due to the 1:30-ish overlap.

I compare the phrasing to DC in 2019 making a plea for any information on vehicles parked near the CPS building from noon to 5:00 on 2/13/17. We would all read that to mean if anyone saw a car there at any point between noon and 5:00 to report such - not asking for a car which arrived at noon and departed at 5:00.

Thing is, if there were confusion about whether or not RA left by 1:30, that would have been cleared up by now. RL made up an alibi for that afternoon, which was hugely suspicious, but LE eventually resolved it.

It’s not just that RA may have changed the time he was there between interview #1 and #2 five years later. Nor just about confusion about an overlap of the 1:30 timeframe.

RA doesn’t have an alibi for the timeframe of the murders. He won’t be able to provide verifiable proof of being elsewhere, because he cannot.

He was at Monon High Bridge.

jmo

 

[TL4S]

Thing is, if there were confusion about whether or not RA left by 1:30, that would have been cleared up by now. RL made up an alibi for that afternoon, which was hugely suspicious, but LE eventually resolved it.

It’s not just that RA may have changed the time he was there between interview #1 and #2 five years later. Nor just about confusion about an overlap of the 1:30 timeframe.

RA doesn’t have an alibi for the timeframe of the murders. He won’t be able to provide verifiable proof of being elsewhere, because he cannot.

He was at Monon High Bridge.

jmo

One important piece of data that we don't have is RA's phone. The D has not said anything about it's location, or whether it was on or off, but neither has the State. In fact, the State wants all geofencing and ping data eliminated from the trial altogether. Why is that? If the phone was off and sus, like in the Kohberger case, or it was clearly in the vicinity at the time of the crimes, or it was a known RA burner phone, why wouldn't the State want that evidence in?

 

[AugustWest]

Here is a PCAST (President's Council of Advisors Science/Tech) Report from 2016 on forensic pattern examination (toolmark analysis):

Justice Department Publishes Statement on 2016 President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology Report

Today, the Justice Department published a statement on the 2016 President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST) Report, Forensic Science in Criminal Courts: Ensuring Scientific Validity of Feature-Comparison Methods. The statement is a response to PCAST’s claims regarding what...

www.justice.gov

PDF is in link.

 

[steeltowngirl]

One important piece of data that we don't have is RA's phone. The D has not said anything about its location, or whether it was on or off, but neither has the State. In fact, the State wants all geofencing and ping data eliminated from the trial altogether. Why is that? If the phone was off and sus, like in the Kohberger case, or it was clearly in the vicinity at the time of the crimes, or it was a known RA burner phone, why wouldn't the State want that evidence in?

I recall that defense has received the phone data. My understanding was that the State isn't seeking to preclude all the geofencing data; they are seeking legal limits to what the Defense can do with that data and are asking the Court to limit the Defense to data that is relevant only.

Can you jog my memory on the prosecution wanting it entirely eliminated from trial? I believe you, as you are always diligent with facts. Just want to revisit that section for myself and understand it.

 

[layer]

The problem here is that the studies which have been used to peer review comparisons of these striations (often called toolmarks) have used spent cartridges, as opposed to unfired, as in RA's case. The chamber striations change and become more pronounced when the pressure within the firing chamber rises as a gun is fired. Thus, the comparison becomes less reliable. Further, most comparisons use not one type of striation mark for identification, such as some combination of the four types mentioned above, which also increases the reliability of the comparison.

I don't think many people understand how dynamic the explosion is inside the thin walls of a casing, powerful enough to launch lead over 1000 feet per second. Even seasoned gun guys look surprised when a squib or over-powdered round makes a thick solid steel barrel split like a banana.

The most compelling ballistic evidence, and the most damning, is on the fired projectile, the slug. They are made of softer metal, by design, and the striations made by the lands and grooves in the barrel are distinctive. But barrel swaps are easy, and the marks will change over the life of the barrel, so it is what it is.

Comparisons of fired casings is at least an established discipline, but the veracity of even fired casing comparisons are under fire. See here

It seems noteworthy that much of the ISP lab testing done in this case and even rounds submitted to IBIS were fired casings. It would appear that there isn't even a mechanism for storing, retrieving, and comparing unspent cartridges within IBIS.

JMHO

 

[TL4S]

I recall that defense has received the phone data. My understanding was that the State isn't seeking to preclude all the geofencing data; they are seeking legal limits to what the Defense can do with that data and are asking the Court to limit the Defense to data that is relevant only.

Can you jog my memory on the prosecution wanting it entirely eliminated from trial? I believe you, as you are always diligent with facts. Just want to revisit that section for myself and understand it.

It's very likely I might not be fully understanding what NMcL is wanting eliminated, too. Here's from his Motion in Limine:



So perhaps this doesn't encompass all the phone data that's available. I just hope the judge allows the geofencing and any other phone evidence in. I really want to know where RA's phone was and if it was on during the time of the crimes!

 

[TTF14]

It's very likely I might not be fully understanding what NMcL is wanting eliminated, too. Here's from his Motion in Limine:

View attachment 501176

So perhaps this doesn't encompass all the phone data that's available. I just hope the judge allows the geofencing and any other phone evidence in. I really want to know where RA's phone was and if it was on during the time of the crimes!

Excluding any phone evidence from the defendant, victims, and last people to see them is ludicrous in 2024! Get it all out there!

MOO IMO

 

[TL4S]

Excluding any phone evidence from the defendant, victims, and last people to see them is ludicrous in 2024! Get it all out there!

MOO IMO

Thanks to @steeltowngirl for keeping me honest and making me go back to look. After reading this part of the Limine over again, I'm not certain that all this information will be excluded. It sounds more like the State wants to limit the types of questions the D can ask Horan, such as about things that the State has deemed irrelevant. I'm not sure I'm reading that correctly, and I'm admittedly frustrated by this case at the moment, but I'm not comfortable with limiting the D on something as significant as this. JMO.

Honestly, my whole problem with this case right now is how much information is out, yet with so little actual information to go by. To deem RA guilty or innocent is impossible for me, because I see room for a lot of interpretation in both the PCA and the FM, along with other filings. The ONLY thing that's clear to me at this point is that I have no idea WTF is going on.

 

[WildHuncher]

DBM Redundant info, answered better earlier

 

[photographer4]

I can certainly agree with denying Greeno any requests, but I still feel audio of the hearings should be allowed by a reputable news agency for transparency so that the public does not have to rely on “reporting” which can in some cases be biased or just incomplete.

JG and I don’t see eye to eye on a few things. Well, maybe even more than a few things .

In many ways, I feel that JG is a bit tone deaf as well as blind to the need for transparency in this case. I am not a fan of her summary judgments without hearings or even written explanations of her decision making. I want to understand her reason for disallowing any electronics, including watches at the hearing (May 7), etc. What reason has she got for refusing the audio recordings by media?? This makes zero sense to me.

 

[layer]

Excluding any phone evidence from the defendant, victims, and last people to see them is ludicrous in 2024! Get it all out there!

Honestly, given the stringent time limit on this trial it kind of makes sense to limit wild goose chases, hopefully they're cooking the right one.

 

[layer]

RA's gimmie money fund overseen by Hennessy allowed them to hire a new mental health expert who will be testifying in Court from what I've seen in their Motions.

I will be needing my own mental health expert by the end of this trial