Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

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Summerfun said:
This should never be posted. Only the family members should be privy to this. I could not link the post.
But the names of all the people who have died in this horrible tragedy.
Should never be posted.
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to what are you referring?
 
Lyra500 said:
Well, what a HUGE surprise. The black boxes have "gone missing" according to some rebel leader guy who is actually a resident of Russia.

Just heard this on BBC News 24.

From the web:http://www.necn.com/07/18/14/Pro-Russia-rebel-leader-No-black-boxes-f/landing.html?blockID=869342



In a way, I think the really concerning thing about this is not that the black boxes have gone missing (I am really not convinced that they will bring anything unexpected or new - I suspect everything just stopped when the missile hit) but the confirmation of how unlikely we are to get a trustworthy investigation whilst these people maintain control of the crash site. Not a surprise really, but the fact that they do not even seem minded to attempt to do things properly is deeply depressing.

I think more concerning from the point of view of being able to reconstruct what happened is the news that rebels are busily carting off parts of the fuselage.

Bodies are also being removed. One would hope that the pathology services in the rebel held area are up to the task, but somehow I don't feel overly confident about that. Also, whilst a proper investigation would seek to find the truth, this all appears designed to obscure it.

It just piles more distress on the families of the victims.
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RE they will bring anything unexpected or new - I suspect everything just stopped when the missile hit) but the confirmation of how unlikely we are to get a trustworthy investigation whilst these people maintain control of the crash site.

Totally agree - just think about it - a tape recorder (with no batteries in it) just stop when the plug is yanked. The recorders are tons of wiring to all parts of the aircraft -- how could they provide information- when they have no connections to all the stuff they are monitoring - and history has shown that to be the case when aircraft are obliterated in flight - they go poof! Or look at it like cable tv -- if all the lines are severed instantly noone is getting programming!

But like you said its back to lies BS media manipulation , showing who is in control bla bal. And I think we are all highly sensetive to being lied too, manipulated, aware of how our leaders just BS when it suits them after MAL 370

he cockpit voice recorder from Trans World Airlines Flight 800 captured "a brief fraction-of-a-second sound" just before it stopped recording, the chief of the crash investigation said this afternoon.The recording indicates that whatever happened to the 747 jetliner, it was sudden, a finding that is consistent with a bomb and one that dovetails with other signs like the lack of a distress call and the sudden failure of the on-board radio system, which sends back reports of the plane's altitude and location, that would point to a bomb.officials said tonight that they could draw no clear conclusion from the sound on the tape, but they said that it added strong support to the theory that a bomb destroyed the plane.

The report of the brief sound picked up by the voice recorder prompted comparisons to the crash of Pan American Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988. In that crash, which investigators later determined was caused by a bomb, analysts heard a brief faint sound just before the voice recorder cut off.
 
Something just does not sit right with me in this horrible tragedy.
Too many quick pointing fingers.
Too many speeches very quickly done.
Without going to the crash scene.
Just too many assumptions, without knowing real hard facts.
 
Lyra500 said:
No I am afraid I don't. I do not see how saying that the bodies in a plane crash with a known site should not be left to decompose and be photographed and beamed around the world is in some way disrespectful to the victims of a flight which was tragically lost (and for which the search is ongoing). That just seems totally illogical to me.

And no - a national government and a national airline are not the same thing in my view.
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here's the deal

we don't want to stress families at all
we don't want to disrespect anyone's religion ever
we don't want to dismiss anyone's religious practice

why would we not do our best to find missing passengers from MH 370

look like the needs of passengers on MH17 trump those on MH 370

suddenly MAL is ''considerate of survivors needs" is fake considering how they have mishandled MH370 (JMO)
 
Saturday, July 19, 07:20 PM GMT +0800 MH17 Press Briefing By Liow Tiong Lai, Minister of Transport

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html

I see the link does not go directly to the press briefing. I went to the second page, and when I returned to the first it showed the press briefing also.
 
The blast force from the missile that slammed into a Malaysian plane over Ukraine, combined with the plane’s dramatic deceleration, probably instantly rendered everyone on board unconscious or dead.

research found that trauma in a mid-air explosion occurs from three sources, the force of the blast, the massive deceleration when a plane going 500 miles an hour stops in mid-air, and the impact of the fall. Additionally, the loss of cabin pressure can cause hypoxia within seconds at 33,000 feet, leading to loss of consciousness.

none of the 230 passengers in the 1996 crash survived, most of their bodies were subsequently recovered. Though the crash occurred offshore, the analysis found none of the passengers had sea water in their lungs, suggesting none were breathing when they entered the water.

It’s literally an explosive decompression and would have caused a lot of g-force pushing people back in their seats,” he said. While it would have taken the plane minutes to fall from 33,000 feet, hypoxia would have rendered anyone who survived the initial blast unconscious within 30 seconds, Waldock said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-18/malaysian-flight-passengers-probably-died-instantly.html
 
Oddsocks said:
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/741248
Is this a blog? I can't tell.
Is this true? I can't tell.
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I am sure there was a post on here earlier (may have been Zwiebel) explaining that there appeared to be an exercise in altering on line information from IP addresses linked to the Russian Government.

I would look at who owns the website and the assertion in that article and consider how likely it is to be true. Why would Ukrainian fighter planes track and shoot down a passenger airliner?

The rebels do not have access to aircraft, so it could not be them.

If it was Russian it was heading back towards Russia and why on earth would Ukraine inflame things by shooting down a Russian plane?

Ukraine Air Traffic Control was guiding the airline through their airspace so knew exactly where and what it was. In addition 75 other commercial planes flew that same route in the 24 hours before the tragedy.

We also have the western journalist who resigned from a Russian state run news agency because she was being expected to twist the truth.

So - I call 100%, 24 carat BS on this one.
 
Summerfun said:
Something just does not sit right with me in this horrible tragedy.
Too many quick pointing fingers.
Too many speeches very quickly done.
Without going to the crash scene.
Just too many assumptions, without knowing real hard facts.
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I'm not sure what you are saying with this. Are you referring to politicians or people discussing what has happened?

I don't think the speeches were done quickly either, considering the huge political issues surrounding the crash and the loss of life.
Speech writers have drafts for all kinds of situations to work from quickly. I'm sure they started writing speeches for all probable eventualities since the minute there were reports of communication being lost with the plane. Leades have to be seen to acknowledge things like this very quickly.

Whilst the finger pointing happened quickly, it was to be expected. Judgements have not been made using only information about the circumstances of the plane crash, but in the context of a long history of violence and tension in the area.

I do agree that so much is based on assumptions without hard facts, but I also think the governments will have a good idea of what is likely to have happened very quickly. I just hope these aren't knee-jerk reactions that will lead to problems in time.

If you were taking about people talking online about it, then yes definitely people are making massive assumptions about what has happened (I don't mean on this site where people actually want to discuss evidence, I mean on the comments of articles etc).

What is more scary is that the longer crime scene investigators are not allowed access to the site, the less we'll be able to rely on evidence found there to base out judgements.
 
gia2 said:
I'm not sure what you are saying with this. Are you referring to politicians or people discussing what has happened?

I don't think the speeches were done quickly either, considering the huge political issues surrounding the crash and the loss of life.
Speech writers have drafts for all kinds of situations to work from quickly. I'm sure they started writing speeches for all probable eventualities since the minute there were reports of communication being lost with the plane. Leades have to be seen to acknowledge things like this very quickly.

Whilst the finger pointing happened quickly, it was to be expected. Judgements have not been made using only information about the circumstances of the plane crash, but in the context of a long history of violence and tension in the area.

I do agree that so much is based on assumptions without hard facts, but I also think the governments will have a good idea of what is likely to have happened very quickly. I just hope these aren't knee-jerk reactions that will lead to problems in time.

If you were taking about people talking online about it, then yes definitely people are making massive assumptions about what has happened (I don't mean on this site where people actually want to discuss evidence, I mean on the comments of articles etc).

What is more scary is that the longer crime scene investigators are not allowed access to the site, the less we'll be able to rely on evidence found there to base out judgements.
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The speeches without any fact were done very quickly.
And yes get there as fast as you can and take hold of the situation.
So there you will get real facts.
What is taking so long?
 
Steely Dan said:
I wasn't real sure what it is so I looked it up and it's not a small slight. It has economic implications for Russia. Plus the other guys get to talk behind Russia's back.

G20
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Turn those countries into another Cuba!
 
zwiebel said:
Video at link. This situation is an utter disgrace. The poor families.

'Grabove, Ukraine (CNN) -- Debris from Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 lay splayed for miles across silent rural fields in eastern Ukraine on Saturday. Two days after the jet crashed, some bodies remained strapped in seat belts -- wearing inflight headphones.
Conspicuously missing at the crash site near Torez were international forensic workers needed to secure and sort the wreckage, and a recovery crew to identify and remove with dignity the bodies of the 298 people who were on board MH17.'

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/19/w...sia-airlines-scene-story/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
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Good report
I am glad they blurred the bodies of the deceased lying on the ground...the first few articles I read after MH17 was shot down clearly showed the deceased on the ground..it was IMO very distasteful of the media not to have blurred them out...
I know the bodies have begum to decompose but I hope Intl teams can get to them and move them...God Bless those who perished, their families left behind to grieve and those people who are on the ground trying to recover the deceased...
 
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