IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #20

[Skigirl]

BBM
Considering there are male POI's - many times we've cases where a male confides what he knows to a girlfriend - and then she tell LE....

This is what happened in the Eve Carson murder case - one of the men who killed her bragged to/confided in a female friend (presumably a girlfriend) and she called an anonymous tip line.

 

[elmomom]

I was a bit confused why drug combos would be laughable too, but I think the terminology could be part of the confusion. People combine all drugs in every combination possible. However, the word "cut" may carry the connotation of either padding an expensive drug with filler to rip someone off or (sometimes) cutting something with an even more addictive substance to get the person hooked faster. So, perhaps cut may have certain connotations that would not describe LSD/Coke being used together. But, pretty much all drug combos are used (scarily enough).

I watched one documentary about someone who cut heroin and coke together by choice. That just blows my mind. Like, how can the human body even live through a healthy dose of coke/heroin??

Thanks - I was not saying it was laughable to think that Cocaine and LSD could and would be used together (though AFAIK it isn't commonplace) but that the word "cut" definitely refers to adding filler to expand the quantity of cocaine. Just like you cannot "cut" cocaine with marijuana - cocaine is a white powder and marijuana is a dried plant! But you can, and often do, mix use of the two.
When you talk about additives to cut a drug, most times the buyer would be unaware of the quantity of pure drug, and the quantity of the agent used to cut it with. "Good stuff" usually refers to a drug with higher potency, and therefore it is cut with less filler. Many ODs due to heroin, and some due to cocaine, occur when the user gets a hold of a source of drug that is much purer and potent than they are used to, and overdoses by accident not realizing that they are taking in much more of the substance than they usually do.
On the point that you wouldn't want to use "pure" cocaine - I agree. From what I understand though, the purity has come a long way since the heyday in the 80's, when most people doing the drug (think Studio 54 for instance) thought if it as very safe, and very mild. Things have changed since then.

On the point of mixing heroin and cocaine - this is very common, though it is more hardcore than many college students use - and IIRC it is what killed John Belushi.

 

[rossva]

According to some sites on the internet, street cocaine currently is in the range of 20-40%, with most leaning towards the lower end.

On the point that you wouldn't want to use "pure" cocaine - I agree. From what I understand though, the purity has come a long way since the heyday in the 80's, when most people doing the drug (think Studio 54 for instance) thought if it as very safe, and very mild. Things have changed since then.

 

[Tr.]

I think it's more than that. His house and car were searched. He submitted to a polygraph. IMO, either JW or his car appears in a video at a time when he claims he was sleeping. LE debunked his alibis for some reason. Alibis cannot be sleeping apparently.

This is how rumors get started.

 

[Chris007]

Did anyone know that JR apartment was broken into back in Dec. So he must have known that there weren't any cameras in his building.

http://spotcrime.com/crime/14630916-6fd1add6bb768955e3f87af2985d6334

 

[cspring]

Yeah, that's the thing about using drugs recreationally...when ketamine is used in a clinical setting, there are professionals there to monitor all the vitals and they can tell when things are getting dangerous, and adjust care as needed. I have used a ketamine/xylazine (xylazine = analgesic because ketamine is a poor analgesic on its own) cocktail in hundreds of small animal surgeries, and they have to be well-monitored post-procedure because of the emergence reactions. In fact, when doing procedures that strongly depend on the animal being in a constant plane of sedation/anesthesia, I & the people I've studied with prefer not to rely on ketamine because of the short duration of action and possibly violent emergence. And I have done procedures, especially when I was relatively inexperienced with monitoring, where one minute the animal was "deep" and the next minute he was ready to walk off the table!

I had to take a break for a couple day--clear my head a lil-where is all the talk from ketamine coming from?

 

[mamamia54]

Is that the same address as 5 North Townhouses??

 

[The Smurf]

I think it's more than that. His house and car were searched. He submitted to a polygraph. IMO, either JW or his car appears in a video at a time when he claims he was sleeping. LE debunked his alibis for some reason. Alibis cannot be sleeping apparently.

I implore you to find one single case, in the entire history of missing persons cases, where a significant other (without an iron clad alibi) is not suspected to some degree. This does not mean JW is innocent, but reading into him as a suspect and guessing why he is a possible suspect is overlooking the reality that all people close to a victim are looked at, unless they can be 100% ruled out. If LS were 13, and had dissapeared from her parents house, they would be considered POI's or even suspects unless there were a clear alibi.

 

[elmomom]

This is how rumors get started.

IMO stands for In My Opinion. I don't think there is any reason we should fear stating our opinions at WS. And I have to agree with Pedrosmom, one of the main reasons I cannot let go of suspicion of JW is that it seems to me, LE is taking him pretty seriously, more so than I would expect if his alibi was rock solid.

 

[The Smurf]

IMO stands for In My Opinion. I don't think there is any reason we should fear stating our opinions at WS. And I have to agree with Pedrosmom, one of the main reasons I cannot let go of suspicion of JW is that it seems to me, LE is taking him pretty seriously, more so than I would expect if his alibi was rock solid.

We also should not fear responding to someone else's opinion with our own, if we disagree. There is no real way to have a discussion unless we reference what one another says or thinks. There is no possible way that a sleeping alibi can be rock solid.

 

[Frogzilla]

This is how rumors get started.

I have to ask, what exactly is in his post that would constitute starting rumors? He stated a couple points of fact and then before his speculation, he put it was his opinion.
I'm going to start going through my life giving "just because" as my answer to everything and see how it works out............

 

[cspring]

I had to look up adderall, actually. So it's a med given for ADHD or the sleep disorder narcolepsy, which makes a person sleep at inappropriate times. I initially took it just as a slap at T, i.e., that he'd need focus and illumination, but hmmm ...

One thing that's always bothered me about this case is the amount of construction going on, both near 5 North and in the immediate area. It spooks me, actually. But all of that must have been checked and rechecked. What about crawlspaces in nearby buildings or something like that? Maybe something obvious, with the implication being that T can't see what's right in front of him. Like the dumpster?

I'm on my way to bed, but I'll think on it some more later today ...

Ppl abuse adderol cuz its like a speeder when u Dont have adhd.... Im still trying to catch up on posts so sorry if this has been commented on already

 

[mamamia54]

Is that the same address as 5 North Townhouses??

Since I seem to be invisable here, I'll answer my own question. Yes mama it's the same address.

 

[Chris007]

Is that the same address as 5 North Townhouses??

Yes it is the same as 5 north

 

[Walker]

Yes, I think this reaches out to friends who have info to come forward. I think in many scenarios there is not a large number of people who have valuable information to give. Do the Spierers think there was a big party and many people know and are covering. Do the Spierers think maybe a person present has confided in a person not present. ( I can't imagine either of these and thus my confusion) If something happened at 5 North Townhouses it is possible as few as 2 people know. And I think the language of the plea makes it more humiliating for those two individuals to speak up.

JMO

Yes, I agree. The language might make it more humiliating for anyone to speak up.


As understandable as CS's anger is at this point, denigrating the morals of the potential witnesses or "watchers" will only alienate them.

The watchers may in fact have morals, but an entirely different sense of justice.

Do these watchers see a 20 year old woman as a full adult who can and should make her own decisions of her own free will?

Do the watchers (for example) see themselves as protecting a young man or some group from an unjust punishment?

Most importantly, how do the watchers see the Spierers? Do they identify with LS's family?


LS's blog JMO reveals internal conflict, which is perfectly normal for a post-adolescent. Perhaps her internal conflict led her to more than one set of friends at the university, which is also typical. The different sets of friends may be entirely different people with entirely different ideals. CS seems to be addressing the set that might identify with growing up in Scarsdale or places just like Scarsdale, which is a fairly privileged and friendly town where people tend to have liberal attitudes, and every modern convenience. But perhaps LS had other friends, too; friends who might see the situation from another perspective.

 

[imkeylime]

Ppl abuse adderol cuz its like a speeder when u Dont have adhd.... Im still trying to catch up on posts so sorry if this has been commented on already

Ahhh ... thank you! I knew I was missing something. So it's basically another Rx that can be used for recreational purposes ...

The ketadine discussion was back on pp. 18-19, BTW, coming about via a discussion that someone could have slipped it to LS, since it might explain her alleged behavior back at SW, etc.

 

[bonechaos]

I think it's more than that. His house and car were searched. He submitted to a polygraph. IMO, either JW or his car appears in a video at a time when he claims he was sleeping. LE debunked his alibis for some reason. Alibis cannot be sleeping apparently.

Just because his house and car were searched does not mean LE did not believe his alibi. We are looking for a missing person here. You do not take a person's word for anything in an investigation like this. Of course LE is going to do these things and ask him to take a polygraph. That does not mean LE "debunked" his alibi, it means they did not simply take his word for it, and they were doing their job thoroughly.

If LE simply said, "Okay, JW, we believe you!" and did nothing else, can you imagine how many people would be in outrage?

The whole suspecting X and Y simply because they retained a lawyer is getting old. Time and time again it has been said that innocent people need representation too. You can not convict a person because they wanted protection. Yet people insist on finding a person suspect because they hired a lawyer. I find it derailing. JMO - I am not telling people not to speculate about it, I am just letting them know my feelings about this type of speculation.

 

[elmomom]

Just because his house and car were searched does not mean LE did not believe his alibi. We are looking for a missing person here. You do not take a person's word for anything in an investigation like this. Of course LE is going to do these things and ask him to take a polygraph. That does not mean LE "debunked" his alibi, it means they did not simply take his word for it, and they were doing their job thoroughly.

If LE simply said, "Okay, JW, we believe you!" and did nothing else, can you imagine how many people would be in outrage?

The whole suspecting X and Y simply because they retained a lawyer is getting old. Time and time again it has been said that innocent people need representation too. You can not convict a person because they wanted protection. Yet people insist on finding a person suspect because they hired a lawyer. I find it derailing. JMO - I am not telling people not to speculate about it, I am just letting them know my feelings about this type of speculation.

I haven't seen the lawyer argument lately. I totally agree with you. If I knew that I was a POI in a missing persons case, I would get the best lawyer I could afford, regardless of my involvement. I've said this a number of times. I also think that the choice of lawyer these kids made was most likely due to recommendations from others.

As far as JW, I'll say it again. I really have a hard time accusing him of involvement myself. I just don't like to see anyone shut down from considering him, it's ok for people to disagree, just not to infer that is WRONG to consider him. And that is usually what makes me speak up.
I have been surprised with LE's actions. I know enough to understand that he is considered the statistical primary suspect - the person closet to the missing person, especially a boyfriend with possible motives - is going to be the main suspect initially. But, in general, LE tries to rule that person in or out reasonably quickly. And it doesn't seem that being ruled out has come quickly here, to my surprise. And that is what makes my radar go up on him.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Ahhh ... thank you! I knew I was missing something. So it's basically another Rx that can be used for recreational purposes ...

The ketadine discussion was back on pp. 18-19, BTW, coming about via a discussion that someone could have slipped it to LS, since it might explain her alleged behavior back at SW, etc.

Yah, a poster suggested ketamine & I just jumped in b/c it's a drug that I've used a lot at work and have read up a lot about (the pharmacology of it and the dis/advantages of use for various procedures).

 

[Blythe]

As far as JW, I'll say it again. I really have a hard time accusing him of involvement myself. I just don't like to see anyone shut down from considering him, it's ok for people to disagree, just not to infer that is WRONG to consider him. And that is usually what makes me speak up.
I have been surprised with LE's actions. I know enough to understand that he is considered the statistical primary suspect - the person closet to the missing person, especially a boyfriend with possible motives - is going to be the main suspect initially. But, in general, LE tries to rule that person in or out reasonably quickly. And it doesn't seem that being ruled out has come quickly here, to my surprise. And that is what makes my radar go up on him.

I essentially agree with you about JW. If he were involved, I can only imagine that he just happened upon her or she visited him just prior to suffering a medical condition; I don't see this as a bf on gf crime. What does pique my curiosity and apparently no one else's, because I've mentioned this several times on prior threads; are the statements that JW made to Mr. Spierer when he called to alert the Spierers of LS's disappearance and what his initial remarks to roommates and to LE. To me those conversations might be telling.

It would appear that JW did not endear himself to the Spierers in the process. This statement is not meant to infer nor imply any guilt but rather stand on its own.