CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #11

[izzyblizzy]

I thought about this case (couldn't seem to avoid it) all evening yesterday. The thought that kept niggling in the back of my mind was the feeling that this case keeps calling to my mind that of Jorelys Rivera. Her murderer, Ryan Brunn was a maintenance/groundskeeper in her apartment complex. He abused her corpse in an effort to hide his crime.

Once that connection was made I realized that despite the fact that Jessica's remains were apparently desecrated, this may be this perp's first murder, as I believe it was for Ryan Brunn in Georgia, when he brutally murdered young Jorelys and disposed of her in a trash compactor.

I was making the leap that anyone who kidnaps a child, murders him/her and then dismembers the corpse (allegedly) is a seasoned predator/murderer.

Now I am looking at this case with fresh eyes, trying not to make those assumptions so quickly.

As to where the found remains were dumped, I think they were meant to go inside that nearby culvert/drain. I think he got spooked when dumping them and bailed before depositing them where he intended, hence they seemed to be dumped right out in the open, which doesn't support the reason for dismemberment/abuse of corpse being for reasons of slowing/preventing them being found and subsequent IDing of them.

It still doesn't explain the backpack which seemed to be "carefully placed" to me. That item could easily be thrown out the window in any rural place. Why place it upright on a sidewalk in a neighborhood? There are so many rural places you could easily access around there.

 

[izzyblizzy]

Sorry if someone has already spoken to this-I always seem to be running way behind.

I could be wrong, but I have read this research, and I think these stats are specific to child abduction murders-not to child deaths/murders as a whole. Most children who are sadly murdered by parents or caregivers are not abducted.

That makes much more sense.

 

[brighidin]

I don't either, except that people tend to raise their kids as they were raised.

as a kid in the 70's, I was free roaming. we just had to come in when the streetlights came on.
In elementary school, I walked home alone, across major intersections and next to empty parks and woods.
The neighborhood kids & I could go into any of the wooded areas (now houses) to play, pick berries, etc. we even played by the brook by ourselves. no one worried about us drowning or anything.

I don't agree with this kind of freedom in this day and age. but a lot of people do it b/c that's how it was when they were young.

Lots of people were abducted and murdered in the 1970s too.Lots of parents didn't allow their kids that much freedom then or now. There has to be a middle ground.

But then there is the other end of the spectrum, where paranoid parents don't let their kids do anything. Parents who don't let their older kids learn how to be independent. Parents who don't let their 16 year olds do anything - including go to school - unsupervised. What happens when those kids grow up and can't function in the world?

Yes there are bad guys out there, but statistically speaking, the chances of running into them are low. The chances are higher that they will be molested by a family member or step father, for example.

 

[Walker007]

I felt inclined to share these articles written to go along side with the outcome of what has happened in Colorado. In reference to the first, I feel many people are misguided that these type of crimes happen only when they see them on national media. And in reference to the 2nd, that is another crime in itself, bullying putting kids at further risk, in light of a known predator running at large, when the reality is that on any given day this is a risk and it is awful any child is treated this way.

"Jessica Ridgeway abduction: Getting a grip on the parenting overreaction"

Snipped:

But in the past week, I’ve heard – and read – from a lot of parents of older children that Jessica’s fate is changing what they allow their children to do. Yesterday, a neighbor whose kids regularly roam the blocks around my house on their bikes and scooters told me she’s no longer allowing her nine-year-old to leave the house without her.

Some of this makes sense. For parents in this area, they know that a predator is still at large, so the threat feels particularly real. And our natural instincts after reading about a tragedy – even if it’s across the country – are to hold our children closer and to maybe hover a bit more than we might have in the past.

But in general, I believe what our children need from us is more freedom, not less. And I hope that as my children get older, I’ll be able to keep my own fears in check to allow them those freedoms.

http://www.csmonitor.com/The-Cultur...parenting-overreaction/(page)/2#disqus_thread

3rd grader says bullying forced her to walk away from school by herself

Snipped:

An 8-year-old girl in Aurora walked off of her school playground this week after she says she was bullied repeatedly by older kids.
Onesty Meriwether is in the 3rd grade at Side Creek Elementary School. She says the bullying has been going on for at least a year and it’s the same group of 4th graders calling her names and singing songs about her.
She says one of the girls even slapped her. Her Mom, Audra was very upset by what happened this week. “When she came home this year telling me about the song, that’s when I decided it was too much.”
On Tuesday, Onesty did what she has been told to do, she walked away. Only walking away wasn’t just across the playground.
Onesty walked off the playground and down the street. She walked more than a quarter of a mile from school and was picked up by the school secretary at a nearby Walgreens.

http://kdvr.com/2012/10/04/3rd-grader-says-bullying-forced-her-to-walk-away-from-school-by-herself/

 

[Theforeigner]

In regards to Peters profile, we discussed the hail damage in Denver, and how a lot of roofing companies from out of state had been in Denver. It was cold and wet the day before and the day of, so its possible work was canceled.

I also was curious about the body, and it appears there is a division of people who think he wanted it found, and those that think he didn't. Also I wanted clairification on a possible distance from the crime, because of a language barrier, I want Peter to clairify. Here is his responds:

sean62185 concerning you statement that "Peter Brendt, who studies these guys (serial killers) for a living"

FIY Peter Brendt is not, in any way, a professional/real profiler.

Peter Brendt is a websleuth member, alleged a fiction writer originally from Germany, who has done serial killer research in connection with writing his books, according to himself; historical and fiction.
(I know him pretty well from his many postings on the Long Island Serial Killer case)

I´m just pointing this out so that there is no misunderstandings, because I think it is a problem if member here get the impression that this profile, and other views on the case by Peter Brendt, is that of a real profiler, because it is definitely not.

Theforeigner


Here is the post/profile in question
Thread 10 page 29 post # 725:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Peters+profile+was+really+interesting&page=29


Yesterday, 10:22 PM
sean62185
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 32

Hey guys I sent a PM to Peter Brendt, who studies these guys for a living pretty much. I threw out some ideas I have discussed here and friends on my face book and what profilers and police not working the case said. Here is a rough profile by him. Thanks Peter!


Quote:
Hi,

I didn't look too deep in the details yet, but I tend to agree with "most profilers" in this case. Plus I would liketo add somethings:

1.) He is not only organized, he is also experienced. He did not only plan it, he also had the experience to avoid the usual mistakeswhen a firsttimerdoesplaning.

2.) He has probably killed before and he will again.Yes,dismembering a body is a nasty business and it takes some hardened mind to do it. Such an MO doesn't develop over night. So my guess is, he has thought about it a long time more than once executed it. That tells me, he is rather 30-40 years old. He has probably priors for molesting little girls and maybe served time for rape of a girl in the pre-nubile age bracket.

3.) He has internet access, which supports the theory, he has his own place. Heisnot a homeless predator of opportunity. He knew, from the perv list in the internet, a known sex offender lived where he dropped the backpack. The interesting point is, there was more than one sex offender, he could have chosen from for his distraction maneuver. So, even it's a longshot, it would be worth to look in the prison history of his scapegoat and look who he had trouble with in prison.

4.) For most sexual motivated child killers,coveting starts with seeing. However, most of them, especially those who served already time and thereforelearned aboutforensic counter measures, don't kill where they live. And they don't abduct form there. Especially not the organized ones. So my guess is, he worked in that area. There are three categories of jobs, this kind of offender likes: Trucker, handyman and everything, that brings him in contact with children. Since he is most likelysomewhere(can bein anotherstate though) on a sex offender list, he will not apply for teacher positions, even he is maybe qualified. Given the area, my guess is handyman. Roofer, window repairs, something that gives him during work vantage points. And he worked there while Jessica was there, he could see her.

5.) He is male (obviously), most likely Caucasian (I give that 70% chance over the thumb), 30-40 years old. He has his own place and it is not just an apartment in a crowded building. He needs privacy, so most likelya smallresidence somewhere. The placewill beapproximately opposite direction from the abduction site to the direction and about the same distance but at least two to three miles from the abduction site, the backpack was found, because either he picked that other predator as scapegoat because he didn't like him or it was a directional thing. He is physically fit and had the self esteem to risk, he may have to subdue her, if she would get suspicious about him. But more likely, he knew her and she knew him. That doesn't mean relative or neighbor, but for kids, someone they see all the time, doesn't count as stranger.

6.) The timing was impeccable. That tells me, he watched her for some time and knew her routines. He could get that part only by stalking which means, he missed work time. So in his work records, LE will find "flu" likedays of being not at work.

7.) He lives alone. That doesn't mean, he was never married or never had a girl friend, but currently, he livesalone or he wouldn't had the privacy. Gacyforexamplewent hunting,when his wife was visiting relatives.

8.) He works for a company and uses therefore often a company truck or van, depending on his job. But private, hedrivesprobably an older unobtrusive car, probably a sedan. He has enough self-esteem not to go for something flashy. So witnesses may have watched in the area a midsize or small sedan, Chevy, Toyota, maybe Honda, which has circled a littletillhe found the right parking spot. He had to, because he came already with a plan and for that, he needed the car at hand to be able to leave quickly with the girl. If I get his mindset right, he may have even filled up thegas tank in the area in the last hour before the abduction.

9.) He is probably a psychopath, the question is, what variant of the same old subject. I don't think, he is primarily a narcissist. No bragging,no taunting,just effective. Maybe, rather in the power-assertion range, even he left thetime of total lack of self-esteem long behind. Heis definitively a pedophile, but I can't say, whether he is preferential. Statistics says, the chances he is are about 60-70%. That would mean, there are more bodies. Since he is maybe not from the state and probably moved after he was released from an earlier prison time, those bodies can be anywhere, we look for missing girls of approximately the same age and appearance. Given his estimated age,aboutfiveto eightyearsback. Beforethator overlapping would be also a string of rapes with the same kind of victimology. Additionally, he may would have a history of petty crimes, mostly thefts (that comes with the packageaspsychopath).

So those are my first thoughts. Feel free to use them, I won't post them, I am busy with some other cases anyway.

Peter

 

[marazul]

yah, I agree about this guy. I personally think JR was at the Countryside rec ctr on the way to school that morning (even though it was out of the way) and was contacted by someone who was there. employee? friend? visitor? lurker?
I think she may have been attempting to change into clothes that she was not allowed to wear. If she was seen changing or complimented and engaged in flattery of some sort, she have gone along with someone willingly at first.

BBM
I have seen this mentioned a few times, and I think it was brought up because there was speculation that her clothes were found in her backpack, and secondary speculation that she might have changed her own clothes as opposed to the perp removing or changing them. FWIW, I have 2 preteen girls, two teen nieces, and volunteer at my daughters school, so I have been around this age of girls for 5 years or so, and I have seen this 'sneaking clothes my parents don't allow' behavior, but almost always towards the 14, 15 year old range, where they can borrow it from friends or buy it at the mall on their own. A fifth grader with no older siblings would be unlikely to have access to obtain their own clothes, and most fifth graders aren't drawn to the type of scandalous clothes that parents don't allow, anyways. When I hear that a 5th grader "wants to dress like a teen", my experience leads me to assume that means Abercrombie jeans, hollister hoodies, etc..not booty shorts or halter tops or anything that a parent wouldn't allow. Give them a few more years for that kind of foolishness

 

[Lava]

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...bi-chief-says-jessicas-killer-could-act-again

Not sure if already posted, sorry if it has been.

Likely to strike again, keep eye on children, back back left purposefully.

I really wonder what makes them believe the backpack was intentional. Just that it was there or did they find something with it...or the time it was left? Not saying I dont believe it, just wonder which part makes them believe it.

Graphic:
Also, because this comes up a lot and I haven't commented on it yet. I do not believe animals got to poor Jessica's body, especially not to be the cause of the "not intact" part. I looked at the pictures and I did not see a ton of "evidence" flags like I would expect had animals gotten to her. Animals aren't neat when they eat and I would expect them to leave a lot of tissue, bone, etc strewn about. A lot of that would have been flagged. imo.

 

[brighidin]

sean62185 concerning you ststement that "Peter Brendt, who studies these guys (serial killers) for a living"

FIY Peter Brendt is not, in any way, a professional/real profiler.

Peter Brendt is a websleuth member, alleged a fiction writer originally from Germany, who has done serial killer research in connection with writing his books, according to himself; historical and fiction.
(I know him pretty well from his many postings on the Long Island Serial Killer case)

I´m just pointing this out so that there is no misunderstandings, because I think it is a problem if member here get the impression that this profile, and other views on the case by Peter Brendt, is that of a real profiler, because it is definitely not.

Theforeigner

Thanks. So he isn't any different than the rest of us posing theories, guesses and generally thinking through this out loud as it happens.

 

[georgiagirl]

I thought about this case (couldn't seem to avoid it) all evening yesterday. The thought that kept niggling in the back of my mind was the feeling that this case keeps calling to my mind that of Jorelys Rivera. Her murderer, Ryan Brunn was a maintenance/groundskeeper in her apartment complex. He abused her corpse in an effort to hide his crime.

I have been thinking the same thing...

 

[Soulmagent]

In regards to Peters profile, we discussed the hail damage in Denver, and how a lot of roofing companies from out of state had been in Denver. It was cold and wet the day before and the day of, so its possible work was canceled.

I also was curious about the body, and it appears there is a division of people who think he wanted it found, and those that think he didn't. Also I wanted clairification on a possible distance from the crime, because of a language barrier, I want Peter to clairify. Here is his responds:

I guess I wouldnt understand he placing of the bookbag as a decoy because why risk leaving it at all. Now there is a clue the killer or someone with contact with the killer was at that location. If the murderer did not want attention that backpack would have been disposed of in a way it was not found. For it to be left indicates the murderer wanted people to know he was there and wanted it found but for a reason. The reason not being a decoy but a motive towards something else. Nothing to decoy away from if it was not to be found right? JMO. Plus the decoy of a bookbag is really not a decoy because it is a real clue that could lead to more evidence. even if it was meant to be a decoy no smart murderer is sure he isnt going to get caught. I dont think this guy is as smart as LE thinks he might be or it is a ploy to have him believe they are dumb. The removing body parts is not to hinder ID or it is . If the killer thought it would just take longer ok but if he wanted it to take longer then why not hide the body better?

IMO I cant make the profile work with certain aspects.

A planned kidnapping commited by an seasoned abductor is what peter seems to be saying he thinks in his profile . Yet leaving a decoy does not fit with the profile nor does tossing it out the window on his way to whereever fit with the profile . I am left with parts of the profile not working out. JMO and I am not a professional or anything.

 

[LisaB]

Originally Posted by Mysterylover

Eileen, I agree 100%.
This person was in a hurry to get rid of her body and get back home /or to somewhere in that immediate area, imo....

other wise they would have driven her further away and hid the body better.

Could it be possible this person found the body too heavy to carry any futher off the road??
I suspect this monster cut her fingers off because of the DNA under her finger nails, also.

IMO it is someone in that 11 mile radius...other wise they would have driven her futher away before leaving the backpack and body so close....imo

The thought that the body might have been too heavy to carry intact brings up the possibility that the killer was a woman. This is something we have discussed before, in terms of it being unlikely, and if the type of mutilation done was ONLY to remove easily identifiable parts (head & hands) then I agree with those who believe that the killer was male (stereotypically and statistically, this would be more likely). If what was located is approximately half of the total weight, the idea that she was dismembered to make the remains easier to transport suggests either a woman, or an older male (elderly) perpetrator... although, if he/she was readily able to abduct a living, kicking, creaming 80-pounder from the side of the road, lifting the same amount of dead weight should not be a problem. If, however, a weapon, or "subterfuge" (lost puppy, offer of a ride to school, offer of candy, etc.) that did not require physical force was used to gain control of Jessica, that still leaves the option of a physically weak person as the perpetrator.

 

[Marah]

Oh really. I had not read that. I read that she watched her until she was out of sight. When was this info stated? Not questioning you just surprised. jmo

This is from the time the family sat down for the interview, I got this from the no discussion thread here. [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187312"]Jessica Ridgeway, *no discussion*: Timeline and Media thread - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Reporter-
Mom tell me about that morning.

Mom-
It was like any other morning. I got home at 7:30, her alarm went off at 7:45..she had wanted her own alrm clock so she could wake up to her alarm..she goes downstairs to watch TV, eats her granola bar, goes back upstairs and gets dressed, and then we peeled oranges for her snack at school, and made her water bottle. She gets on her coats, she calls her friend to make sure they're walking and gonna meet her friend that morning and her friend was walking. And I watched her walk out the door and thats the last time I saw her..and we need her to walk through that door.

Reporter-
Mom, were there ever any concerns with her walking that route?

Mom-
No, last year they stopped the free bus service, now have to pay for it.. Last year there were no other kids walking to school so I always drove her.. I asked her what she wanted to do this year and she said she wanted to walk with her friend J and his older brother who goes to the middle school.. There is a whole group of them from the neighborhood that walk home.. Its too quiet on the streets too. No kids playing.. They need to be able to be out playing again and not scared.

Reporter-
Mom, when did you know something was wrong?

Mom-
When the school called, she never misses school her favorite were Math and PE. She would never not go cause she didn't want to go. I got call from school and made sure she wasn't any of the places where I didn't think she would be but just wanted to check to make sure. (school and friends house)

Reporter-
Did you miss the call from school?

Mom-
Yes, they left a message on my cell phone. I recently have been applying for colleges and one of those colleges keeps calling so I left my phone downstairs so that I could get some sleep because i need to be rested for when Jessica gets home from school.

After getting the msg from the school I drove past the park and had a little bit of hope and thought maybe the school was mistaken and she was at the park playing with friend.. But she wasnt and I lost a little bit of hope..went to her friends house and noone answered the door..went to the school and noone had seen her so I lost a little more hope..went back to friends house and friend still wasnt home .. And I knew in the pit of my stomach(emotional and crying) a parent never wishes to go there. I wouldnt wish for any parent to ever have to go there..

We are a strong family and we will get through this and she'll be taken care of as she always has been and she will be stronger too.

 

[nursebeeme]

Moderator note: If anyone has a problem with a post hit the ALERT button in the right upper corner of the post and a moderator can review it for you. Do not use snark when posting; always address the post and not the postER.:seeya:

 

[marazul]

I guess I wouldnt understand he placing of the bookbag as a decoy because why risk leaving it at all. Now there is a clue the killer or someone with contact with the killer was at that location. If the murderer did not want attention that backpack would have been disposed of in a way it was not found. For it to be left indicates the murderer wanted people to know he was there and wanted it found but for a reason. The reason not being a decoy but a motive towards something else. Nothing to decoy away from it is was not to be found right? JMO.

A planned kidnapping commited by an seasoned abductor is what peter seems to be saying he thinks in his profile . Yet leaving a decoy does not fit with the profile nor does tossing it out the window on his way to whereever fit with the profile . I am left with parts of the profile not working out. JMO and I am not a professional or anything.

I agree, but I am also considering that he might have left it as an afterthought.Maybe he abducted, murdered her, placed remains in trunk or other vehicle altogether, dumped the remains, then goes to visit someone and realizes the bookbag is in the front seat floorboard... Pulls into the nearest neighborhood and dumps it.
Or maybe he was driving, passed LE, panicked, and pulls into the nearest neighborhood and dumps it.
It does seem that he planned and purposed to leave it there, but I am not married to that theory.

 

[SuziQ]

Weird because it seems to contradict the strong stance most LE has taken with most missing childern being murdered by their parents. I think I have even seen them state the percentage was as high as 90 something percent.

IMO, these quoted stats are in reference to true abductions ending in murder of which are still very low. Most reported child disappearances ending in murder are usually not abductions at all, but murder commited by a parent, significant other of the parent, or some other type of caregiver. Stranger danger is rare, but still too many for the victims and their families. The low percentage of stranger abductions is of no comfort to those who become their victims.

 

[tlcya]

It still doesn't explain the backpack which seemed to be "carefully placed" to me. That item could easily be thrown out the window in any rural place. Why place it upright on a sidewalk in a neighborhood? There are so many rural places you could easily access around there.

if this perp is a younger male (think 18 to 22ish) and this is his first foray into abduction and murder, he may have placed the backpack so purposefully where he did several days post abduction in an attempt to create a false impression that Jessica may still be alive and was recently in the area that the backpack was found. If that was his plan, you can bet he was probably busy abusing the remains or dumping portions of them in an area far from where the backpack discovery ruckus and searching was going on.

I think the backpack was there so perp could await the discovery of it and ensuing hubbub, searching to begin in that specific area which then enabled him to be in another area doing whatever was done to the remains and/or disposing of portions thereof.

ETA who knows, like all of us, I am simply speculating and giving my best shot at profiling this freak. With the absence of new news/leads to chew on, its all I have right now.

 

[Footwarrior]

Footwarrior, Interesting theory.
I would like to ad, she could have first been taken into or behind, one of the buildings, empty offices, Fitness Gym, Athletic Club, houses or garages she passed that morning..
what time did she disappear?
Most places do not open until around 8:00 am., except Athletic Gymns.

We need a list of the various types of buildings she would have passed that morning, that was NOT in viewing distance of her friends...
This monster had to have a 'reason', good excuse for being in that neighborhood at that time of the morning...so how did he get there is a question IF he didn't live there....jmo

Jessica's walk to Witt elementary school didn't pass any commercial buildings. She walked by single family houses then across an open field.

 

[Walker007]

I feel that whoever the offender or a possible associate/accomplice who left the backpack in the location - this location had to be a place they had some level of comfort as to not be detected or where they would feel they would stand out. Whether that be themselves, a friend, relative or a place they had done work in or at or for someone in or around that area.

 

[LisaB]

There are many, but since we are on a child abduction and murder - Otis Toole and Henry Lee Lucas are one example.

Also the Hillside Stragglers
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillside_Strangler"]Hillside Strangler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
(Angelo Buono & Kenneth Bianchi)

Also, Charles Ng & Leonard Lake

 

[izzyblizzy]

Would someone please answer this question I have?
Did the mother work 2nd or 3rd shift??

If the answer is' yes', WHO kept that beautiful 10 yr. old while the mother worked the night shift?

Grandma was watching her overnight. And yes the mother worked the night shift and slept during the day (hence why she didn't answer the phone call from the school). My understanding is that Grandma works during the day.