CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #16

[JodyMT]

It looks like this guy couldn't handle a grown woman, so he went after a little girl who he could grab and control because she was a lot smaller.

 

[CHERIE.T]

The rate at which these sorts of things is no different from years ago, the only difference is that back then most news was local whereas now it is national. All those cases you never heard of back then (because they were somewhere else in the country) you hear about now. So it seems like there is more, but not really.

A case like this, no matter how tragic, every two weeks still makes it a pretty rare occurrence. Something like a few dozen out of 45-60 million. Kids are far more likely to be killed in a motor car accident, or shot by someone they know, than be abducted and killed by a stranger.

I disagree. :blushing: I recently read that sex crimes against children and women have risen due to *advertiser censored* and violence being so readily available on the net.

 

[CHERIE.T]

It looks like this guy couldn't handle a grown woman, so he went after a little girl who he could grab and control because she was a lot smaller.

If the perp is the same one who attempted to attack the jogger , hes already tried to attack an adult
:moo:.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I agree with you on the points you made, particularly about the media. But there are some societies, modern societies, that do not and never had, this amount of violence, especially against children. Which is why I think it's cultural, social in nature. I've lived in three different "cultures" and the rates are simply different. Individualism, I guess is the main word.

It's a very sad day that an 11 or 12 year old cannot go out and walk to school, ride a bike etc. But fear is what these monsters want to instill in all of us and I for one, would not give in to it. After Gardner attacked Chelsea King in San Diego, the running groups in San Diego made pacts that we were not going to allow monsters like him from stopping what we love to do, because then we are giving them exactly what they want.

Sorry for the rambling, I have so many thoughts about this case but in the end, I just want this piece of scum caught.

I've said this before on another thread :blushing: but I'll say it again....
when I was a kid we rode bikes around the neighborhood. We walked to friends houses and played outside until dark. We even slept in tents in the backyard.
But something horrific happened by the time my children were born. I became aware of pedophiles and other awful crimes against children. I watched my children like a hawk.
It disturbs me to no end that children can't do normal things outside because of possibly being kidnapped, raped or killed.
:moo:

 

[CHERIE.T]

The way that guy was knocked to the ground by the woman kind of leads me to believe the attempted abductor was a pretty young guy. He looks awfully skinny and extremely weak.

I thought so too.

 

[Sigh Sister]

I'm not Cashew but I read about this here on WS. It was originally thought to be a child's body but later was identified with a missing woman, Janine Ann Johler, 38. She was physically handicapped and in a very abusive relationship. IIRC her husband is in prison for her murder.

Her husband is not in prison for her murder. This case remains unsolved.

And i don't think she was married to the man. He was ruled out because he was in jail at the time.

http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20090621/NEWS/906219997

 

[CHERIE.T]

ok..just catching up.....re someone saying about it being unusual to go from a woman to a girl in the last thread, that was me asking longtimers here if they had seen it before, because I hadnt while on here....

I think he has had the urges for a while and maybe passed Jessica walking alone and couldnt resist a female walking alone...I think it was just too easy for him. What is scary is, has he now crossed over to murder after attempted abductions.....I wonder if the woman in May was his first or if he has raped other women?? Are there any other unsolved murders of women in that general area?.........I also think the police know a lot more than us by only saying that the two are linked and nothing more. I hope they catch this guy now that he has crossed the line.......a serial in the making for sure...

Not only attempted abduction of an adult ...he then went to kidnapping a child...killing her and dismembering her.
IMO his violence seemed to possibly grow!

 

[koalabear]

Video and article. Ketner lake incident on Memorial Day.

Jogger escapes from attempted kidnapping near Westminster lake

May 30, 2012

http://kdvr.com/2012/05/30/jogger-escapes-from-attempted-kidnapping-near-westminster-lake/

Gosh, really don't like that comment under the article. Mum needs to hide her name.

 

[CHERIE.T]

BBM

With this guy, it would probably be one of the parents waiting for the kids that disappeared. I think they should reinstate free school bus service in that area until the guy is caught.

Absolutely! A grand idea. :cheers:

 

[CHERIE.T]

OT- they found a body in NJ believed to be the little girl, Autumn...

Oh nooooo

 

[GrainneDhu]

I assume there is a reward in this case? The reason I am asking is I have not heard about it. Maybe if the media gets into covering that there is a reward then someone might turn their friend or family member in? JMO

Right now, there is a lot of publicity in the local area about Jessica's murder. Since LE believes the perp is local (I agree; this just screams local to me), there is no need to do anything in particular right now to keep the media focus.

I think it is better to hold off on offering a reward until the media starts to lose focus. At that point, offer the reward and that will get some more stories about Jessica out there.

Since a reward usually only makes a big stir once, best to hold off until that stir is needed. Sometimes if there is a modest reward, then someone stepping in to boost it really high will also make a stir but that cannot be counted on.

My amateur impression is that rewards tend to work because of the media attention they call to the case rather than significantly influencing someone's actions. There well may be some people who will not turn in someone they know unless they can get something financial out of it but my impression (amateur) is that most people do it out of a sense of ethical duty.

After all, we're not talking about someone who was cheating on their taxes, we're talking about a brazen murderer. I wouldn't turn anyone in for cheating on their taxes even with the potentially hefty reward for doing so but if I thought I knew such a murderer I hope I would turn them in. It would be really difficult to do so since I don't think anyone I know well would commit this sort of murder but I hope I would do the right thing first and then cry over it.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I've said this before on another thread :blushing: but I'll say it again....
when I was a kid we rode bikes around the neighborhood. We walked to friends houses and played outside until dark. We even slept in tents in the backyard.
But something horrific happened by the time my children were born. I became aware of pedophiles and other awful crimes against children. I watched my children like a hawk.
It disturbs me to no end that children can't do normal things outside because of possibly being kidnapped, raped or killed.
:moo:

Yeah, we would be out sometimes after dark. My brother was 7 and I was 10 and we'd be out with all the neighbor kids playing 'ghosts in the graveyard.' Not my kid. My just turned yesterday five year old is craving more independence. I don't want her to cross the street without holding my hands. I do watch people more and I hate to discourage her from talking to people but she is sometimes too friendly. You just never know. Although I do know if I was back in San Diego, I would be a lot more afraid. Here it's very common for people - old ladies and younger men- to say oh what a nice dress or something in passing - completely harmless. Yesterday my daughter wore around the city - train, aquarium, restaurant, etc. - her princess Rapunzel dress and many people were coming up to her striking up conversation. I just always keep in the back of my head little pumpkins like Jessica Ridgeway and Samantha Runnion.

 

[CHERIE.T]

You have a choice about whether your child plays outside. Or whether they walk to a friend's house alone.

Indeed! :rocker:

 

[CHERIE.T]

Yeah, we would be out sometimes after dark. My brother was 7 and I was 10 and we'd be out with all the neighbor kids playing 'ghosts in the graveyard.' Not my kid. My just turned yesterday five year old is craving more independence. I don't want her to cross the street without holding my hands. I do watch people more and I hate to discourage her from talking to people but she is sometimes too friendly. You just never know. Although I do know if I was back in San Diego, I would be a lot more afraid. Here it's very common for people - old ladies and younger men- to say oh what a nice dress or something in passing - completely harmless. Yesterday my daughter wore around the city - train, aquarium, restaurant, etc. - her princess Rapunzel dress and many people were coming up to her striking up conversation. I just always keep in the back of my head little pumpkins like Jessica Ridgeway and Samantha Runnion.

I know! I watch my grandchildren like that. Love your daughter wearing her Rapunzel dress. I bought my granddaughters fairy dresses to wear whenever.

We just have to watch our loved ones.

 

[The Farm]

The days of Leave it to Beaver are over.

 

[CHERIE.T]

LOL don't worry about it. Just responding to a comment who responded to a comment...no biggie. :floorlaugh:

:seeya: Thanks for understanding Dee!

.

 

[catswhiskers]

:snail: I was away from home on Saturday night (Australian time) and by the time I got home on Sunday evening I was behind by two whole threads. Have just caught up again with today's posts :tantrum:

I was really surprised that so many people accepted as fact the info in both the Denver Post article and the Fox one too. They contained so many things that have never been confirmed by LE. Especially, the claim that Jessica walked to her friends house and the discussion about how the workers found the garbage bag and called in animal control. Not to mention the fact that they quoted an Arvada police spokesperson - how can that be when WPD has repeatedly stated that they are the only source of official news related to the case?

Anyway, shame on those who think they are "in the know" and are leaking information to friends or the press, even if it is seemingly solid fact. I firmly believe that it is LE's right to withhold information so as not to tip off a perp. They also keep some information out of the public eye in order to strengthen their case once an arrest is made - getting all their ducks in a row as it were. Asking for info about something like the cross doesn't mean they have no clue - I believe they want as much confirmation from as many different witnesses as possible, about even the smallest details, to absolutely nail this guy!

Stay strong Colarado people - it really feels like his days are numbered.

I have a horrible feeling that maybe some of the other abduction attempts could be copycats, or maybe even worse, some kind of sick attempt to "go viral" or get posted on youtube - this is the kind of culture/entertainment that so many young males find amusing these days. Horrible thought, but who knows? Good on the woman in the carpark for letting her fight response kick in and throttling him like that :yesss:

I think I have just bored myself here - while reading the past 130 or so pages I have been making mental notes of so many things I wanted to comment on - lucky for you I have forgotten most of them!!

:moo:

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've said this before on another thread :blushing: but I'll say it again....
when I was a kid we rode bikes around the neighborhood. We walked to friends houses and played outside until dark. We even slept in tents in the backyard.
But something horrific happened by the time my children were born. I became aware of pedophiles and other awful crimes against children. I watched my children like a hawk.
It disturbs me to no end that children can't do normal things outside because of possibly being kidnapped, raped or killed.
:moo:

I grew up in the era when it was normal for children to free range too. When I was 10, we had an area of about a square mile in size in which we were allowed to roam, so long as we showed we were responsible by showing up promptly when we were expected to. It was common for kids to go out after their chores were done and disappear from adult sight until they were due for dinner.

Heh and back then, all kids had chores. My mama used to joke that she had a dishwasher and her name was Grainne. She was by far not the only mom on the block who used that line. Us kids used to joke in return that she had us because she didn't want to pay for help (and the joking got worse after we all three flew the nest and my parents did hire help!).

Even back then, there were predators. Back then, as is true today, children are at highest risk from someone they know, particularly someone in a position of trust and/or authority over them.

There were also stranger assaults and abductions but they just didn't get the national media attention they get now.

I wonder if one of the reasons why parents feel more vigilant now is that people are so mobile now. How many people stay in the same house for 50+ years these days? Or even 20+ years?

Back when I was growing up, it was common for people to live in the same house most of their adult lives. Neighbourhoods were stable and so people really got to know their neighbours. There was a lot of informal child minding ("did you know your Tommy was getting into mischief with my Andy?").

The statistical level of risk has actually gone down since I was a child but the perception of risk has gone up.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Anyway, shame on those who think they are "in the know" and are leaking information to friends or the press, even if it is seemingly solid fact. I firmly believe that it is LE's right to withhold information so as not to tip off a perp. They also keep some information out of the public eye in order to strengthen their case once an arrest is made - getting all their ducks in a row as it were. Asking for info about something like the cross doesn't mean they have no clue - I believe they want as much confirmation from as many different witnesses as possible, about even the smallest details, to absolutely nail this guy!

SBM

In this country, you can't assume that leaks are leaked without official permission. The press and the various branches of government tend to lead a strange dance where they cozy up in some situations and smack at each other in other situations.

Sometimes information is released informally through "sources" when LE wants the information to get into the media but does not want to have to stand up and defend it.

This happened, I believe, in the Kyron Horman case. LE was careful in what they said publicly about Kyron's stepmother but leaks made it clear that LE considered her behaviour very suspect.

Sometimes the press and government get too cozy. Anyone remember Nigerian "yellow cake"? That was a classic case of the press being too willing to cozy up and accept the leaks they were being fed.

 

[Sigh Sister]

Here's a link to an unedited or less edited version of the surveillance video from Pitcher's Bar. I had not seen this before, but I do remember someone mentioning the man sitting in the patio area who appears not to react at all, even after the woman flings herself over the fence into the patio area! Maybe he was too drunk to react.....

http://www.9news.com/dontmiss/295663/630/Video-released-in-attempted-kidnapping

ETA. I'm sure many of you already saw this, but I didn't and thought others may have missed it as well.