Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[minor4th]

Thank you for posting that timeline and it includes information that I have not heard before.

One thing, though, there is dispute between Roux and Nel that Reeva died of a headshot at 3:17. Roux claims she was killed earlier during the first volley of bangs heard by Shipp, and that the bangs at 3:17 were the cricket bat breaking the door.

Nel says the bangs at 3:17 were the shots that killed Reeva, but he so far has given no explanation of what the first set of bangs was, as heard by Shipp.

 

[shane13]

Thank you for posting that timeline and it includes information that I have not heard before.

One thing, though, there is dispute between Roux and Nel that Reeva died of a headshot at 3:17. Roux claims she was killed earlier during the first volley of bangs heard by Shipp, and that the bangs at 3:17 were the cricket bat breaking the door.

Nel says the bangs at 3:17 were the shots that killed Reeva, but he so far has given no explanation of what the first set of bangs was, as heard by Shipp.

Dr. Shipp clearly gave his own explanation--gunshots.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Oooh, MM, while you're here, do you have any idea what the sky was like that night? Pitch black or a full moon?

Sorry Zwie… head in a tub of icecream all day celebrating the cricket win…

New Moon (no moonlight) was 2 nights earlier, however it was a totally dark in Pretoria in the early morning hours of the night Feb. 13/14th. Moon had set (gone down) at 11pm and would not be due to rise until 11:20am plus as is so often the case, it would have likely been a still night and dogs quiet. Sound would travel crisp and clear across the veldt or rooftops.

ps just alert me if you need me to open the heavens.

 

[Estelle]

Maybe I can help to clarify some questions and/or irritations resp. false information


A short part of the timeline

* shortly after 03:00 a.m. – OP called female neighbour [probably wife of Stander, lawyer, friend], said she should come immediately
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/i-saw-reeva-die-1.1471707#.UXLG2qK-2So

* 03.08 a.m. – OP’s close friend Christo Menelaou woke with a start. He’d heard what sounded like three thunderclaps. He lay in bed waiting for the rain to start. Almost an hour later [~ 04.10 a.m.] he went to the bathroom. His window looks out onto OP’s house. “His house used to be in pitch darkness at night, except for one light that was always on,” Christo (34) says. But that night all the lights were on and there were blue and red lights flashing outside the house.
http://drum.co.za/2013/04/26/hes-heartbroken/

* 03.17 a.m. - Reeva died by the fatal head shot (according to Nel + Roux)

* 03.19 a.m. - OP called Stander [according to OP's DT]

* 03.20 a.m. - OP called Netcare [according to OP's DT]

* 03.20 a.m. – Stander and his wife (?) (called by OP shortly after 03.00 a.m.) came to the house

* few minutes later – Dr Stipp arrived

* 03.42 a.m. - paramedics and first police officers arrived
[There was a video with CCTV footage of Silverwood estate that showed the arrival of paramedics and police. Sadly I not noted the link of the video but I noted the time that was shown.]

* 03.55 a.m. - OP called friend Justin Divaris. Female neigbour [probably wife of Stander, called by OP shortly after 03.00 a.m.] talked with Justin Divaris on phone

* 04:00 a.m. - Female neigbour [probably wife of Stander, called by OP shortly after 03.00 a.m.] called coach Peet Van Zyl by OP’s phone [“I picked up the phone and saw it was Oscar's number and thought it was him phoning me.”] and told him he have to rush to come to OP’s house

* ??? a.m. – Peet Van Zyl called Ampie Louw, OP’s athletic coach

* 04.00 a.m. - further police officers arrived

* 04.15 a.m. - Hilton Botha arrived

* ??? a.m. – Peet Van Zyl + Ampie Louw arrived
[at this time OP wasn't no longer in the house but separate by police in the garage]

* 04.30 a.m. - Justin Divaris + girlfriend Samantha Greyvenstein arrived
[at this time OP wasn't no longer in the house but separate by police in the garage]

All mentioned people except Peet Van Zyl + Ampie Louw are at the state's witness list.


Phone calls

[from the bail hearing]

Nel: Did this accused phone police?
Botha: No.
Nel: Phone security?
Botha: No.
Nel: Phone [for an] ambulance?
Botha: No.

Botha: I saw a firearm on the shower mat. Collected 2 cellphones and two more Blackberries. The two iPhones were not used that morning. The Blackberries hadn’t been used in months.


Different reports about the time OP's brother and lawyer (Kenny Oldwage) arrived

Excellent post, Pisto_lius, IMO Christo Menelaou will be called as a witness too. I find it interesting that he is mentioned as a State witness on this media guide to the Oscar Pistorius trial as well as Samantha Taylor and her mother, Trish, and few others are. Christo will be able to tell us about the ladder too as he lent it to Pistorius.

"Christo Menelaou, Pistorius's neighbour at Silverwoods, will also testify. In a Drum magazine article, he claimed to have woken up startled by what sounded like three thunderclaps at eight minutes past three in the morning. An hour later, when he went to the bathroom, he peered outside and saw blue and red lights flashing outside Pistorius's house."

http://www.mediaclubsouthafrica.com...de-to-the-oscar-pistorius-trial#ixzz2vFyThwcx

 

[lisasalinger]

I'm thinking about all of the bangs and how the sequence of events could have happened. What about this:

We know that there was a cricket bat either in the bedroom or in the bathroom during the timeframe of everything going down.

What if OP and RS were fighting, hence the earlier reported loud woman's voices heard from 2am-on (Mrs. van der Merwe).

As the fight intensified, the cricket bat was grabbed. Reeva runs in to the toilet and locks herself in. OP could have initially banged on the door a few times with the bat out of anger (not fully breaking the panel, possibly damaging it but still intact) and Reeva was screaming inside. This would account for the 3 initial bangs that Stipp hears. He's closer than Burger & Johnson so it's totally possible that he hears it but the others further away didn't. These are the first sounds he hears as he's roused out of sleep, so it's also possible that he just assumed they were shots not being 100% awake yet.

OP then goes to the bedroom to get the gun. Reeva is screaming during this time and obviously her screams would be a lot more frantic now. She is terrified. Again, accounts for what Stipp hears and for what Burger & Johnson hear.

OP goes in to the bathroom and shoots Reeva 4 times through the door. Her screams and his screams are intermingled at this time. The last scream fades out with shot 4. Then from most of the witness accounts, it is silent.

We know that at some point OP breaks that panel off of the door. Maybe the door is already so damaged from prior banging that he just rips it off. I don't know. We'll have to wait to see what the experts have to say about the door at trial.

Food for thought on the bangs.

 

[canny]

Carol70,

I totally agree with you that we are all entitled to express our own opinions in this popular forum as we feel fit within certain legitimate boundaries on this most gruesome murder of Reeva by her boyfriend OP who claims he mistook her for an intruder hiding in his toilet. My sole motto is to ensure that late Reeva the sole bread winner for her family and her traumatized dear ones get justice in a court of law as they are fighting a hard battle against a very wealthy man and his family who are using all the clout available at their disposal to manipulate the system and are pretending to be the REAL victims of this most heinous of crimes. In doing so if i have crossed the boundary and offended your sentiments kindly accept my sincere apologies. You have been here long before me and your insightful knowledge of all things South African is a welcome education for us; therefore there is no need for you to go on strike over nothing!

With regard to OP accidentally firing his friends gun a Glock pistol, I would like to remind you that this gun has a fail proof safety mechanism; it can’t be fired accidentally by dropping it to the floor kicking it or accidentally applying pressure on the trigger. The trigger has to pulled with full force along with the safety and the safe action trigger for a bullet to be fired from the chamber. You should watch the videos on You Tube. This is overwhelming proof that his behavior was no accident in the high end restaurant and his lawyer Roux lied in court about this whole incident .A month later he accidentally mistook Reeva in his toilet for an intruder and filled her with lead. His obsession with guns is a well documented fact therefore accidents don’t occur in OP’s life he plans everything in advance.

With regard to your post about a reputed journalist reporting that nothing incriminating was found on his iphone, if this information is accurate then this news bodes well for OP but i am still skeptical about its authenticity, so far all leaks appearing in the media have originated from the OP camp.In his sworn affidavit he promised to cooperate with the State to prove his innocence but all evidence points to the contrary. He refused to disclose his iphone pw to the prosecution claiming he had forgotten it compelling the State to spend valuable taxpayer’s money and time running behind Apple to crack his phone. His selective amnesia is the biggest joke in town for the simple reason that one year after killing Reeva he had a flashback that he brought in two fans not one, and that he did have a conversation with Reeva before going out into the balcony to bring in these fans negating the most crucial points in his sworn affidavit. Proving conclusively that his sworn affidavit is a pack of lies .

 

[bessie]

Discussion continues here:

Oscar Pistorius Trial Discussion Thread #2 - Day 5, March 7, 2014 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community