Sorry don't mean to pester but again what does this mean?
CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough Ont, 19 June 1990 #1
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Sorry don't mean to pester but again what does this mean?
What does Spinner look like now I mean generally?
Does he ever hang around uptown or downtown say Yonge Eg or Yonge Dundas? Usually the places to cadge money.
Anything new eyesonly on the Spinner front? I mean just generally don't want you to wreck anything in your invest.
Just adding re PB: not sure if he was beauty obsessed exactly we don't know his Scarborough victims looked like. Actually it is a decent question just for the record what was his 'type'??? The rape vs. murder dichotomy doesn't totally make sense for PB since if that online book is correct he "raped" (surely not the right word) one SRvictim vaginally and anally for half an hour surely that could have killed her.
Just adding re blood in the car. If body dragged INTO the car why so little blood?
Just adding re screams heard: far as I can tell that DOES sound like excellent evidence. 5 people or groups of people. I am assuming screams were coming from the wooded area? (But not sure.)
not sure PB had a "type". maybe whatever fancied him at the time, i believe it was more the opportunity that presented itself with him a the time. i'm not convinced PB actually killed anyone, though he was obv involved. Karla's sister was an accident. I believe karla killed KF and LM, jmo.
on the spinner front, i live out of town, so i get down as often as i can, but i have yet to actually see spinner. the gentleman i search with has gone to LE with all his info, as well as RB's private investigator who has notified the defense team.
LE will be following up on this for sure, they put a call into homicide about it, and homicide is extremely busy so not uncommon for them to take weeks or few months to follow it up. but it will def be followed up, and spinner will be brought in for questioning.
the defense team for RB is extemely interested and will be seeking the best way to follow this up and possibly escavate in the spring.
on the spinner front, i live out of town, so i get down as often as i can, but i have yet to actually see spinner. the gentleman i search with has gone to LE with all his info, as well as RB's private investigator who has notified the defense team.
LE will be following up on this for sure, they put a call into homicide about it, and homicide is extremely busy so not uncommon for them to take weeks or few months to follow it up. but it will def be followed up, and spinner will be brought in for questioning.
the defense team for RB is extemely interested and will be seeking the best way to follow this up and possibly escavate in the spring.
there is reasonable info that points to EB trying to help this spinner person, as she
was taking classes in this area, to help ppl, i believe.
EB's father actually got this spinner person a room at their church, and this comes from the father himself. So we are now trying to determine when he got him the room and why him of all the street ppl around, which leads to the info of EB attempting to help someone.
My friend has recently talked with EB;s dad on the phone, told him his discovery of spinner, and this is when the father related the story of himself getting spinner a room at the church.
It was a fleeting discussion, my friend hadnt talked to Mr B in almost 20yrs, but thought this was important enough to call and let him know.
So the mood wasnt right to ask indepth questions about how he had come to know spinner, and when, and the reason he got him a room at the church.
i'm don't believe he travels too far from the area he's at, though he walks very long distances it is said, i don't believe he hangs around downtown toronto, but i have no proof one way or the other on that.
was taking classes in this area, to help ppl, i believe.
EB's father actually got this spinner person a room at their church, and this comes from the father himself. So we are now trying to determine when he got him the room and why him of all the street ppl around, which leads to the info of EB attempting to help someone.
My friend has recently talked with EB;s dad on the phone, told him his discovery of spinner, and this is when the father related the story of himself getting spinner a room at the church.
It was a fleeting discussion, my friend hadnt talked to Mr B in almost 20yrs, but thought this was important enough to call and let him know.
So the mood wasnt right to ask indepth questions about how he had come to know spinner, and when, and the reason he got him a room at the church.
i'm don't believe he travels too far from the area he's at, though he walks very long distances it is said, i don't believe he hangs around downtown toronto, but i have no proof one way or the other on that.
as for the scenario about possibly another person causing her disappearance other than the male in the car.
there are issues with her brother that night. it was clear he didn't go to class either, but lied on the witness stand and said he did. several people including his younger sister had told my friend that they had thought the brother may have been involved, that he was acting strange that week, and he was an abusive person as well.
so it's possible he and his sister were arguing in her car, and he was trying to knock some sense into her, he parks the car, gets out leaves EB, and walks to his own car in the area, spinner is watching this as that is the area he lives in, and approaches EB after her brother or whichever male was there is gone, spinner has a crush on her and thinks EB is leading him on at earlier meetings, he is jealous seeing her with another guy, he has an explosive temper and once it is let loose, he cant stop it. of course, jmo, and only one of many scenarios put together to try and figure this all out.
there are issues with her brother that night. it was clear he didn't go to class either, but lied on the witness stand and said he did. several people including his younger sister had told my friend that they had thought the brother may have been involved, that he was acting strange that week, and he was an abusive person as well.
so it's possible he and his sister were arguing in her car, and he was trying to knock some sense into her, he parks the car, gets out leaves EB, and walks to his own car in the area, spinner is watching this as that is the area he lives in, and approaches EB after her brother or whichever male was there is gone, spinner has a crush on her and thinks EB is leading him on at earlier meetings, he is jealous seeing her with another guy, he has an explosive temper and once it is let loose, he cant stop it. of course, jmo, and only one of many scenarios put together to try and figure this all out.
the whole issue about the car being backed in actually is about the car being left in reverse gear. LE tried to make a big deal of the fact that RB knew the car was left in reverse gear. RB had said the brother told him it was, and the brother, same one who lied about going to school that night, again on that witness stand said he did not tell RB the car was left in reverse gear.
So makes RB look like a liar again, same as LE made RB out to be a liar when he said he was on the stairs looking down on EB's class. And again LE trying to make RB a liar when he said he saw the brothers car at EB's home at 9pm when the brothers class didnt end till 10pm.
EB's mother has carried this heavy burden of where her daughter lays, and if she will every be brought home. I hope that Mrs. Bain somehow knows that there are people who still care about finding her daughter and bringing her home.
morrish rd witness says that the girl opened her door, passenger side, started to step out, and their eyes locked. the girl didn't look scared or in trouble and she didn't yell for help when she seen the lady walking by the car.
any thoughts as to why EB didn't yell for help when she had the chance.
any thoughts as to why EB didn't yell for help when she had the chance.
matou
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Do you know if the car was backed in to the spot as it was found later on? Do you think the driver took the car from that place and drove it back again to the same place? The passenger side would be closest to Kingston road if it was backed in. Did she see the driver or hear any other voices at all? Maybe she was being threatened by the driver because there was a witness on the road? The sun was setting at the time the witness saw her right? Was she able to see anything about her clothing, like what she was wearing or her hair? Was her hair messed up I wonder? Just because the witness didn't think she looked scared doesn't mean she wasn't, if she wasn't smiling that is. She must have known the person in the car IMO.
ETA: Interesting info about her brother. I wonder if that is who the witness on her street heard her arguing with. It always bothered me that the witness said the male was seen driving away in her car. Baltovich had his own car. Did the brother have his own car? Was it broke down and he needed car parts? (might be a ridiculous question but who knows?). I've seen grown siblings argue violently over their vehicles and one taking the battery out of the other one, etc.
matou
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I got my book in the mail last week and haven't started it yet. Disappointed that there aren't that many photos. Finkle's article that I posted here has more photos e.g. the car on Morrish Rd.
Am I remembering this correctly: Bain's brother is the one who found her car across the road?
Am I remembering this correctly: Bain's brother is the one who found her car across the road?
the car was parked in the office area of the 3R when the witness walked by. so the cars rear end was facing morrish rd, and the passenger door was facing kingston rd. i believe the witness pretty much described EB.
it would be great to get the full statements to read from LE but that is impossible. her account is in the book. it is jmo also that it appears that she knew the driver. the witness RC described the male somewhat but its pretty vague as she decided to cross the street as she thought they were a couple and it felt kind of awkward.
the car was found across the street, and about 20-30ft down closer to kingston rd.
theres no way to know if the car was used and put back in the same spot after that night.
person at the 3R says the car was in the exact same spot wed, thurs and fri until found.
hard to imagine someone driving anytime after tues nite to wed early am. as ppl would be out looking for EB as she didnt return home, from wed morning on they would be looking.
it would be great to get the full statements to read from LE but that is impossible. her account is in the book. it is jmo also that it appears that she knew the driver. the witness RC described the male somewhat but its pretty vague as she decided to cross the street as she thought they were a couple and it felt kind of awkward.
the car was found across the street, and about 20-30ft down closer to kingston rd.
theres no way to know if the car was used and put back in the same spot after that night.
person at the 3R says the car was in the exact same spot wed, thurs and fri until found.
hard to imagine someone driving anytime after tues nite to wed early am. as ppl would be out looking for EB as she didnt return home, from wed morning on they would be looking.
matou
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Ok thanks eyesonly. I wanted to know if the spot the car was when seen by the witness was the same place it was located in later. Was the auto shop still open when the witness walked by? It sounds like it wasn't but sometimes auto shop places stay open later if there is a lot of jobs at the time.
as for the witness who says she saw them arguing on the street, i'm not sure that is a viable sighting. the person really couldnt get a good look if i remember correctly, and i believe even the night may have changed after talking to police, and then under going hypnosis, things got remarkably clearer.
i believe this hypnotist was discredited years later, either because of sexual misconduct with patients, or something else, and he was known to have said that he could make anyone say anything he wanted them too.
it was EB's youngest brother that found the car, and yes he and EB did have arguements about her car, he kept using her car without her permission, as his was always broken down i believe.
it was EB's other brother, who was closer to her age that i put in my scenario.
i believe this hypnotist was discredited years later, either because of sexual misconduct with patients, or something else, and he was known to have said that he could make anyone say anything he wanted them too.
it was EB's youngest brother that found the car, and yes he and EB did have arguements about her car, he kept using her car without her permission, as his was always broken down i believe.
it was EB's other brother, who was closer to her age that i put in my scenario.
sry matou, no the car where the witness seen it was not the same place where it was found by the brother on the friday. yes i am pretty sure it was closed, if you saw the area, you could see that someone would pull in there if it was closed, to either talk or do a u-turn,
matou
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Oh yes I know where this place is and drove by very recently. It's very industrial but so close to Kingston rd hwy 2 as well.
matou, just be careful around that area, that little white house across from the 3R and just on the north side of that little park area, is a biker club house affiliated with the HA bikers.
we've never had any issues, and in fact have never seen any bikers there, however they do have surveillance cameras in the back of the house, they were/are called the red line crew.
from what we've been able to gather, the red line crew came into existance in 1995, and we don't know if that house was a biker house prior to that and when it first became a biker house.
it could very well have been one the night EB went missing, we don't know.
this spinner person has led my search partner to believe it was the bikers responsible for EB's disappearance, he kept talking about the red liners, but as i said above my research has them coming into existance in 1995. and he may just be trying to throw the spot light off himself.
so just be careful please, anyone who decides to go look in that area, please do not walk on this property.
thanks all and hope everyone has a wonderful new year.
we've never had any issues, and in fact have never seen any bikers there, however they do have surveillance cameras in the back of the house, they were/are called the red line crew.
from what we've been able to gather, the red line crew came into existance in 1995, and we don't know if that house was a biker house prior to that and when it first became a biker house.
it could very well have been one the night EB went missing, we don't know.
this spinner person has led my search partner to believe it was the bikers responsible for EB's disappearance, he kept talking about the red liners, but as i said above my research has them coming into existance in 1995. and he may just be trying to throw the spot light off himself.
so just be careful please, anyone who decides to go look in that area, please do not walk on this property.
thanks all and hope everyone has a wonderful new year.
Eyesonly it would be useful to know if that house was associated with HA when Bain was abducted.
So you have given WS three knew suspects Spinner somebody's brother and one or more persons in that gang. From the little research it seems they were and maybe still are an independent group but now under influence of HA. I think they are older than the date you give so probably were around as a separate outfit at time of EB abduction. It would be very useful to know.
By the way do you and/or your research buddy have any other suspects (even thinking outside the box or outlandishly).
(I have contributed only my "two Scarborough rapists" theory with the non-Bernardo possibly of interest in EB (as anon blond guy seen with her) but I think I am the only believer in that possibility).
Chorley8, regarding the biker stuff, i am just an armchair sleuther like you all, just a regular person, and i research into an area like that only so far, basically surface research, because i dont want to put my safety or my families safety at any risk.
my sole purpose in this is for EB to be found and brought home. who actually was responsible is immaterial to me, suspects are just paths to follow, but if that path may put me or my family in danger, then i will find another path to find her.
my sole purpose in this is for EB to be found and brought home. who actually was responsible is immaterial to me, suspects are just paths to follow, but if that path may put me or my family in danger, then i will find another path to find her.
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