NY NY - Ellery, Rte 17, WhtFem 30-37, UP15489 193UFNY, GSW, poss from Canada or Europe, note, clothes, Dec'83

[Giucy]

All credits to Romulus for the translation actually.




Ok Romulus, let think about your hypothesis a bit further. Because whatever the angle, it is soooooo convoluted that it seems very unlikely IMO. I would even say implausible.

1) She was a tourist in Italy and had medical complications, thus fitting a new IUD in emergency.
The problem is that there is no hint of medical issues relevant of said complications in the autopsy report.
So, either there were none, or they were covered up. Unless otherwise proven, I lean towards the former, ie no hint of the slightest relevant complication.
The latter seems more like sci-fi than the reality of life.

2) She was visiting relatives. So, the relative asks her doctor to prescribe an IUD purposely for said relative but actually for the UID. This one is absolutely implausible.
Before prescribing the right IUD, the physician has to examine the cervix and uterus because the right IUD depends of cervix and uterus size, but also its shape. Unless said doctor conducted a recent intimate exam to the UID, I strongly doubt he would prescribe an IUD purposely for said relative but actually for the UID. Actually, such process is nonsensical.

3) She was a tourist living in America but thought it would had been a great idea to get an IUD while in Italy.
But you need to find a doctor, get the prescription, fit an appointment for the actual fitting. time you can actually spend to enjoy your holidays.
What's the point of such a hassle when you're on holidays, unless you have a medical emergency ?
For the medical complications, back to #1.


So, Romulus, without the IUD, your theory would make completely sense.
Its absolute contradiction is the IUD.

 

[Romulus]

You can do a lot of assumptions, and if the doctor which was was of Italian descent and lived and worked for such a long time in Canada or the US? We saw that the case was Italian, he has just recommended that brand and type of spiral ... If she was of Italian origin and had relatives in Italy who occasionally visited her in the US or Canada, may lead him directly the spiral ' from Italy? The spiral let it pass in American airport customs or Canadian? They are hard as almost impossible hypothesis, but other ideas I now do not.

 

[Giucy]

You can do a lot of assumptions, and if the doctor which was was of Italian descent and lived and worked for such a long time in Canada or the US?

Canada, yes. US, no, because the IUD was not used there.
The only likely logical hypothesis is the doctor of Italian descent in Canada.

We saw that the case was Italian, he has just recommended that brand and type of spiral ... If she was of Italian origin and had relatives in Italy who occasionally visited her in the US or Canada, may lead him directly the spiral ' from Italy?

You can't buy an IUD without a prescription.
And how could the doctor recommend/prescribe this specific IUD without having examined the UID ?
Sorry, it doesn't make sense at all.

The spiral let it pass in American airport customs or Canadian?

Again, how would said doctor prescribe the IUD and make the relative buy the IUD with a prescription without having actually examined the IUD ?
The problem is that you can't prescribe an IUD without having examined the lady first and foremost.

They are hard as almost impossible hypothesis, but other ideas I now do not.

The only likely hypothesis is the doctor being of Italian descent in Canada.
Or the European woman traveling in the US.

 

[Giucy]

Thank you.

I'll find the exact legal references, because I dislike being given laws without references to said laws.

Meanwhile, I also have to get a look at the note with the telephone, easier to read than with a computer.

 

[Giucy]

Meanwhile, the NamUS link : The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

In the Clothing and accessory tab, it states : "white V - neck camisole made in Carpi, Italy; a green/brown/red checked trench coat reverse to drab olive wool (size 40), blue/gray wool crew neck pullover; plaid wool skirt various shades of brown blue and red."
I emphasized in bold the key point. Because you don't find it on the DN's page.

Size 40 is absolutely not a Canadian size !! Canadian size use the US scale.
Women's Clothing Size Conversion
She had bought her trench coat in Europe, that's for sure !!!!


Let think that she was estimated to be 128lbs -> 58kg circa and 64 in -> 1,62m circa.
So, based on her estimated BMI (not ideal because it doesn't account for lean/fat/bones distribution), at 22, she was thin to medium build.
And based on her photo, she was far from being fat !!!

However, I cannot guess if the size is an Italian size or the European size.



What's your opinion ?

 

[Giucy]

I don't think that the woman is from Europe. It is of course possible, but I think it is more probable that she was from Canada. Reasons for that are the location. Ellery, NY is close to the Canadian border. The woman had a kind of IUD that was used in Canada. The memo pad with the numbers and abbreviations on it was from a hotel in Vancouver, British Columbia. Perhaps she lived in an European country for a couple of years to work there and then returned to Canada. That would explain the European dental work.

It is true that nowadays German area codes have five digits, but just since July 1, 1993. From 1961 until 1993, the area codes in Germany had four digits. As a result these three numbers can't be German area codes. Today they are, but not back in 1983.

I tried to decipher the abbreviations and numbers:

Sar.k.R.h. 24233
K.R.Ba 68307
Carg. 74211

I have no idea what that could mean. Perhaps the last letters are an abbreviation for Calgary? :waitasec:

Cargo city is in Francfort, Germany.

 

[Giucy]

After some googling, I found that Carpi might not be a typo !!

Carpi is a city in Emilia-Romagna : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpi,_Emilia-Romagna

However, it would be wise for LE to check if the piece of cloth was actually from Carpi or Capri.


From my search, Carpi is not such a touristic city. So, could our IUD be from Carpi ?
I think that it would be a good lead to follow.

 

[Suglo]

Meanwhile, the NamUS link : The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

In the Clothing and accessory tab, it states : "white V - neck camisole made in Carpi, Italy; a green/brown/red checked trench coat reverse to drab olive wool (size 40), blue/gray wool crew neck pullover; plaid wool skirt various shades of brown blue and red."
I emphasized in bold the key point. Because you don't find it on the DN's page.

Size 40 is absolutely not a Canadian size !! Canadian size use the US scale.
Women's Clothing Size Conversion
She had bought her trench coat in Europe, that's for sure !!!!


Let think that she was estimated to be 128lbs -> 58kg circa and 64 in -> 1,62m circa.
So, based on her estimated BMI (not ideal because it doesn't account for lean/fat/bones distribution), at 22, she was thin to medium build.
And based on her photo, she was far from being fat !!!

However, I cannot guess if the size is an Italian size or the European size.



What's your opinion ?

Size 40 is Italian and European (but not British) sizing. It equals about a size 8-10 here in the US. When I lived in Spain in the 80s I wore a size 36 there and 4 here in the US.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Romulus]

I just wanted to point out that Capri has nothing to do with Carpi, are two completely different cities and two different regions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capri,_Campania

 

[Romulus]

In north east region of Italy Trentino alto Adige one of official language is German; also in Austria the official language is German; possible that the codes come from them? however, I went to see the missing persons from Italy before 1983 but at the moment there are no missing persons with certain requirements, even try to look for something.

 

[Laughing]

74211 is a postal code for Leingarten, Baden-wurtemburg, Germany according to Google.

This obviously may have been posted already...

:seeya:

 

[Bit of hope]

Meanwhile, the NamUS link : The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

In the Clothing and accessory tab, it states : "white V - neck camisole made in Carpi, Italy; a green/brown/red checked trench coat reverse to drab olive wool (size 40), blue/gray wool crew neck pullover; plaid wool skirt various shades of brown blue and red."
I emphasized in bold the key point. Because you don't find it on the DN's page.

Size 40 is absolutely not a Canadian size !! Canadian size use the US scale.
Women's Clothing Size Conversion
She had bought her trench coat in Europe, that's for sure !!!!


Let think that she was estimated to be 128lbs -> 58kg circa and 64 in -> 1,62m circa.
So, based on her estimated BMI (not ideal because it doesn't account for lean/fat/bones distribution), at 22, she was thin to medium build.
And based on her photo, she was far from being fat !!!

However, I cannot guess if the size is an Italian size or the European size.



What's your opinion ?

She was 64 kilo's if she was 128 lbs, and 5'4" = between 158 and 160 cm Considering her length en weight she was not very petit and not very heavy, size 40 would fit I think. In Europe very common for a woman of her age (even quite slim) and indeed a European measure. I think the coat could be a Burberry London coat (not suggesting that she is from the UK, but just a type of coat checkered and also I saw one with olive coulour on the other site, and expensive, and as you stated size 40 is not used in the UK)

 

[Giucy]

74211 is a postal code for Leingarten, Baden-wurtemburg, Germany according to Google.

This obviously may have been posted already...

:seeya:

Could it be also an Italian postcode ?

 

[Giucy]

In north east region of Italy Trentino alto Adige one of official language is German; also in Austria the official language is German; possible that the codes come from them? however, I went to see the missing persons from Italy before 1983 but at the moment there are no missing persons with certain requirements, even try to look for something.

There are, but are not necessarily in the databases.

 

[Giucy]

True. But 40 in Italian size is not 40 in European size.
So, could her 40 be an Italian size or European size ?

FWIW, I am 1,52m for 43-46kilos and I wear a 34 European size.

And 22 is her BMI, not her age.

 

[Bit of hope]

[h=2]Sizes ladies[/h]

NL	GE	FR	IT	SP	UK	US	Internationaal
32	32	34	38	0	4	2	XS
34	34	36	40	1	6	4	XS
36	36	38	42	2	8	6	S
38	38	40	44	3	10	8	S
40	40	42	46	4	12	10	M
42	42	44	48	5	14	12	M
44	44	46	50	6	16	14	L
46	46	48	52	7	18	16	XL
48	48	50	54	8	20	18	XXL
50	50	52	56	9	22	20	XXL
52	52	54	58	10	24	22	XXXL

 

[Bit of hope]

True. But 40 in Italian size is not 40 in European size.
So, could her 40 be an Italian size or European size ?

FWIW, I am 1,52m for 43-46kilos and I wear a 34 European size.

And 22 is her BMI, not her age.

https://www.kledingmaten.net/ Here we can compare

 

[Giucy]

I did compare with http://www.asknumbers.com/ClothingWomensConversion.aspx

I wear a 34 French size

An interesting info is that : "No shoes on but would have worn shoe size 5-6" on NamUS.
Size 5 is equivalent to a 35-36 French shoe size. She was of thin to medium built and had small to medium feet

 

[Bit of hope]

Hi Giucy,

In the Netherlands and Germany size 40 is medium, in France small and in Italie extra small. Shoe size 36 1/2 - 37 1/2. I wear 38 so she had small feet. Also the thing with the different sizes in different countries

 

[Bit of hope]

If it was an Italien size 40 she would be petit....is don't get the idee that she was very extra small....but I,m not sure....