I still don't understand how people think that a State would allow CONVICTED murderers loose on society unless they had reason to believe they're not guilty. If the released were to turn around and commit another murder, the state would be facing a ton more problems and costs than another simple criminal trial.
Summary of Damien's Mental Health History
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I still don't understand how people think that a State would allow CONVICTED murderers loose on society unless they had reason to believe they're not guilty. If the released were to turn around and commit another murder, the state would be facing a ton more problems and costs than another simple criminal trial.
I call BS.
BS again. Murderers are released when a Court finds a flaw in the underlying trial. They are not simply released by the prosecutors for not reason at all.
Of course there has been.
Hate to tell you. I formed my opinion after only reading the investigative materials. I made it a point to NOT read news articles and definitely NOT watch any documentaries until well after I read the actual reports and statements. I would bet that if you didn't put so much stock into newspaper articles and certain websites, you wouldn't be so steadfast in your opinion either.
I do agree that it has been beaten to death but I disagree that it makes sense for a prosecutor to decide to set 3 convicted murderers free to prey on society. That is like saying a person with a 7 high and a person with a royal flush both made the right decision to fold their hand.
Actually that is an entirely different issue and I think you acknowledge that by having created a separate thread for it.
They weren't set free though. They are still technically guilty which does allow certain restrictions for a person that is technically "free." In their eyes, something was better than nothing (i.e. total freedom), and they were at the disadvantage because evidence and witnesses were gone 20 years after the fact. In essence, the state would have been stupid to try to "win" outright.
The whole "the State would never allow 3 child killers to walk free" argument is beyond weak and proves nothing. There's a guy convicted of raping and murdering a 5 year old girl out on day parole, working in a thrift shop a few hours from where I live. Means nothing.
zencompass
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Userid, I can't disagree with this.
This is just a thought. Sometimes state agencies will overstate conditions to continue to get the funding. Job security sort of thing. The more work they have on the books, the continued funds. While there was certain signs, up selling his crazy was better for them.
I have been to meetings where there is a discussion on how these reports are drafted. Basically grant type proposals for lack of a better term. There has to a certain level of extreme urgency built into the terminology. Word choices and such. There even comes a point where the reports begin echo earlier reports in that certain information is regurgitated or plagiarized, borrowed. Damien was doomed right from the start when his parents named him Damien. His name betrayed him and then the system helped create and sustain that imagine.
That's word play. If you don't like "free" I get it. Let's say released from incarceration and I'll rephrase... I disagree that it makes sense for a prosecutor to decide to release 3 convicted murderers from incarceration to prey on society.
I would be very interested in reading that case. What is his name? I presume, to support your position, this guy is only allowed out of prison because of a million dollar movement backed by celebrities brainwashed by documentaries.
I'm not engaging in word play any more or less than you are.
Yes, your last line is more accurate, albeit ignorant of the fact that the 3 -- in the state's eyes -- would have been far more of a danger to society if found "not guilty." They are not incarcerated, but they still have restrictions with being, technically, guilty. This plea in particular is important with regard to probation and how it functions if one of the three is convicted of any crime (I stress, any, not just murder) going forward, in addition to what the 3 give up (i.e. constitutional rights). There are restrictions on all 3 that the state "won" with this plea, that they wouldn't have had the 20 year old case with disintegrating evidence and lost witnesses, gone to trial -- and yes, these restrictions/lost-rights, for all intents and purposes, do "protect" the society at large -- if not entirely, then at least to a degree -- from the 3 individuals far more than a "not guilty" ruling would ever be able.
http://scholarship.law.missouri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3558&context=mlr
I know you asked the other poster, but there are a plethora of examples unfortunately; these are only 10 and they are extreme examples. I'm confused: are you saying this doesn't happen in America? That people don't get paroled even after being convicted of murder? Have you honestly never heard of a gang member being convicted of murder, serving a handful or two of years, being released, and re-offending? Honestly, don't forgo logic just to argue.
http://lists.monstersandcritics.com/life/10-twisted-murderers-who-were-freed-then-killed-again/
SpeakForTheDead
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I agree with those who argue that the medical documents concerning Damien Echols don't prove he's a murderer, but they certainly point to a disturbed individual. It's interesting to see folks cite the fact that there's only about a year of mental history documented in the 500 pages, when I actually consider the mental documentation to be less compelling than the biographical information Damien provides.
There are sections in the documentation where Damien states his step father is sleeping with his sister, and he doesn't care. He also indicates at one time he was living in a shack with his step father, and the rent was cheap because the shack was heavily sprayed with insecticides. Taken as a whole, this was a kid who had an extremely difficult upbringing.
Would it be possible for somebody who lived in extreme poverty at times, witnessed the denigration and objectification of his sister, to resent seeing kids being raised relatively normal (compared to Damien)? Like I said, I don't agree that these documents prove Damien was a murderer, but I could certainly see how somebody with the past Damien claims to have had could become one.
There are sections in the documentation where Damien states his step father is sleeping with his sister, and he doesn't care. He also indicates at one time he was living in a shack with his step father, and the rent was cheap because the shack was heavily sprayed with insecticides. Taken as a whole, this was a kid who had an extremely difficult upbringing.
Would it be possible for somebody who lived in extreme poverty at times, witnessed the denigration and objectification of his sister, to resent seeing kids being raised relatively normal (compared to Damien)? Like I said, I don't agree that these documents prove Damien was a murderer, but I could certainly see how somebody with the past Damien claims to have had could become one.
lastpainting
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Having been hospitalized for depression myself I can tell you it is very unusual behavior even for a psychiatric patient. There is a difference between 'psychosis' and 'psychopath'. Damian may have been depressed and had bipolar (delusions of grandieur) making him have episodes of feeling godlike which combined with sadistic and homicidal tendencies would quite easily create the perfect storm. Given his obsession with blood drinking and violence I am surprised many people dont see the correlation between his specific fantasies (including the influence of Crowley, who BTW believed in sacrificing innocents and sexual abuse, almost as if he wanted to take hedonism to a whole new level) and the nature of the killings. These killings do not seem like a crime of passion by an enraged step father. They appear to be grossly sadistic, a thrill kill. Believe it or not teenagers are perfectly capable of being cruel and my hypothesis is that Damian egged the others on, to see just how depraved they could be. I honestly believe most of us, who have empathy go into denial when faced with this type of brutality . It is almost impossible for the average person to comprehend such cruelty and psychopathy especially committed by what were essentially three innocent looking teenagers. As much as Damian's Gothic look and interest in Metallica was used to make out these biblical hicks were pigeonholing him for being an anarchic teen (common, rebellion against a deeply religious town) ...he has become to many a veritable and charismatic alternative symbol of rock stars and he's good looking and articulate. He fits the profile to a tea. From my experience first hand with psychopaths I can tell you they ate experts at manipulation and can fool anyone. For me exhibit 500 was some of the most damning evidence against him. I reiterate...if anyone could empathize with the stigma related to mental illness, alternative clothing , psych hospitals and subsequent discrimination it is me. Yet his behavior and violent fantasies and acts are beyond anything ive seen and ive seen a lot of bizarre behavior, particularly in the public system. To the commenter who said this is normal teen behavior: really? With all due respect I find this to be a strange statement. Even his own family were scared of him. This to me is not just angsty teen bravado, though it has widely been painted as such.
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lastpainting
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I agree completely. It is so critical to read all the case files and witness reports for this reason. Part of the confusion in this case is actually spending a lot of time weeding out the gossips and money grabbers, children's wild imaginations and outright misleading speculation and contradictions amongst the witnesses. I spent a lot of time investigating each and every witness to figure out which ones were honest or had alterior motives, contributing to hype and Chinese whispers...but as you said...overall: The amount of stories about his obsession with skulls and dead animals alone indicates there is some truth at least to these 'rumors'. From memory, at least two witnesses told similar stories without colluding with one another and the descriptions of these/this event were eerily similar. We all know the first sign of a budding psychopath is killing and torturing innocent animals..and many serial killers became fascinates with road kill combined with their bizarre sexual fantasies later growing up to commit much more heinous crimes
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lastpainting
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lastpainting
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Sorry I am new to Tapatalk and dont know how to delete that. I was meaning to reply to another post.
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lastpainting
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Well according to Lorri Davis who appears to become more and more silent and fearful in interviews...he has PTSD. That could he euphemistic for all sorts of things, although anyone in prison for that long would find it difficult readjusting to the outside world without extreme anxiety. Regardless, he has made a decent amount of money from gratuitous and violent paintings some of which were done with bodily fluids and blood...if thats any indication. He also hangs out with notorious satanists like P-orridge and Manson. According to a podcast by ed Opperman (a PI) he spends a great deal of time being interviewed and appears to be thrilled by the media spotlight, constantly garnering pity for his plight and playing up/sometimes outwardly lying about his various mental and physical grievances as a result of prison - on story proven false that he almost lost his tooth beaten by guards and without access to a dentist he was advised to have them all pulled out which scared him...so he began doing reiki which apparently eased the constant physical pain he was in. I digress...but from interviews we know for a fact these things
1. He lies
2. His artwork and associates are fairly dark and twisted
3. He enjoys media attention
4. He has bizarre idiosyncrasies like wearing dark glasses, claiming he can't see properly
5. He has a third lover, who is also an artist and Lorri appears more and more beaten down and submissive as time has gone on
These are the only indications we have of his mental health .
The lies indicate paranoia either because he's guilty or just neurotic
The obsession with a rockstar like persona and constant need for attention shows he is fairly narcissistic
The artwork speaks for itself....
And his relationship with Lorri, who is probably the only one who knows the most about him seems strained for thw reasons above . She also stated that it is a full time job helping him do basic things (understandable given the change in technology in 20years) from cooking, to even coping with busy cities and the anxiety it evokes.
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