MorbidLace
Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2019
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 39
Nothing as of yet, unfortunately. no idea if they're still investigating, or if it turned out to be nothing.
Identified! Canada - Tofield, AB, 'Septic Tank Sam' Ntv/WhtMale 1046UMAB, Apr'77 - Gordon Edwin Sanderson
- Thread starter Rle7
- Start date
I really hope the theory that this guy was a sexual predator or pedophile isn't true. Everybody that hears about this case feels sorry for the man and hope he gets identified and his killers are brought to justice. If it turns out he was a pedophile people aren't gonna feel sorry for him one bit.
Gypsysoul25
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2019
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 215
In Western Canada the Aboriginals are stereotyped as being unwed teen mothers,criminals etc.they are not romanticized at all.some people even hide the fact that they are aboriginal
I recall reading a concerning article saying that 6 tribe elders have called a emergency meeting due to the drug use among the young population
there was a somber documentary on teen suicide among first nations members by vice I think.also some Canadian police don 't even take missing persons report serious if the person in question happens to be aboriginal
the late Canadian actor Cory Monteith is listed on ethnicelebs as being Irish,Scottish,Dutch,English and Welsh despite the fact that his phenotype is obviously Canadian Aboriginal influenced while many white Americans who are of similar heritage do not have a phenotype similar to his
so I would have to go with the possibility of him being first nations
I recall reading a concerning article saying that 6 tribe elders have called a emergency meeting due to the drug use among the young population
there was a somber documentary on teen suicide among first nations members by vice I think.also some Canadian police don 't even take missing persons report serious if the person in question happens to be aboriginal
the late Canadian actor Cory Monteith is listed on ethnicelebs as being Irish,Scottish,Dutch,English and Welsh despite the fact that his phenotype is obviously Canadian Aboriginal influenced while many white Americans who are of similar heritage do not have a phenotype similar to his
so I would have to go with the possibility of him being first nations
Gypsysoul25
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2019
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 215
Jails in Western Canada have a large Aboriginal population.they are overrepresented for their population
The Opioid plague in Canada is having a negative effect on the Aboriginal population
When a young girl who looks to be Caucasian is seen dating a Canadian Aboriginal man she is stereotypically viewed as someone who wants her fix.the boyfriend is either a drug dealer or knows where to get drugs.it's not a pc statement but it happens
So yeah western Canada isn't all that much a friendly environment for native people
The Opioid plague in Canada is having a negative effect on the Aboriginal population
When a young girl who looks to be Caucasian is seen dating a Canadian Aboriginal man she is stereotypically viewed as someone who wants her fix.the boyfriend is either a drug dealer or knows where to get drugs.it's not a pc statement but it happens
So yeah western Canada isn't all that much a friendly environment for native people
The only way I see Sam getting identified is if one, or all three of these things happen:
1. Isotope test to narrow down where he lived most of his life. Or at the very least his last whereabouts.
2. A new facial reconstruction is made. He's gone too long without having an updated one.
3. His case is picked up by the DNA Doe Project. Unless they're not allowed to take on cases in Canada.
1. Isotope test to narrow down where he lived most of his life. Or at the very least his last whereabouts.
2. A new facial reconstruction is made. He's gone too long without having an updated one.
3. His case is picked up by the DNA Doe Project. Unless they're not allowed to take on cases in Canada.
Last edited:
Gypsysoul25
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2019
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 215
The demographics of Anglophone Canada is British isles mostly but a growing Chinese and Punjabi Sikh community
during the early years of Canada's history there were cases of single Scottish men taking indigenous wives.it is a bit more visible in Western Canada since settlement was done much later
The Quebecois region has been more or less bred out when it comes to native dna.French Canadian is also a culture.many French Canadians have recent Italian or Irish ancestry.
Orphaned children of the potato famine in Ireland were taken in by French Canadian families and raised as such
I once read the average French Canadian is 4% native.intermarriage was haulted early on by the French colonialist
King's Daughters - Wikipedia
during the early years of Canada's history there were cases of single Scottish men taking indigenous wives.it is a bit more visible in Western Canada since settlement was done much later
The Quebecois region has been more or less bred out when it comes to native dna.French Canadian is also a culture.many French Canadians have recent Italian or Irish ancestry.
Orphaned children of the potato famine in Ireland were taken in by French Canadian families and raised as such
I once read the average French Canadian is 4% native.intermarriage was haulted early on by the French colonialist
King's Daughters - Wikipedia
Last edited:
Gypsysoul25
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2019
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 215
He looks like he could be a Canadian Aboriginal/Scottish mix.a varying degree
Scottish is the third largest ancestry in Canada
Western Canada has one of the largest concentration of Native canadians
Scottish is the third largest ancestry in Canada
Western Canada has one of the largest concentration of Native canadians
Gypsysoul25
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2019
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 215
Dna Doe project does have river nation lady on there pending list
Maybe I am misrembering but I could have sworn DNA for project has septic tank Sam on there
I'm not sure if this is anyway relevant to the topic but South Dakota(I could be wrong about it being South Dakota) has a settled old Metis community.he looks like a native white mix based on his recon so maybe he has relatives across the border
Melt71
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2019
- Messages
- 2,726
- Reaction score
- 7,645
Blurgle
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2019
- Messages
- 459
- Reaction score
- 2,329
I wish the truth were that rosy. A lot of us are discovering through 23 and Me and Ancestry that we have indigenous ancestry that was carefully hidden by parents and grandparents who were both deeply ashamed of their heritage and terrified of what people would do to them and us if they found out. It used to be that the rape and/or murder of an indigenous person would never be prosecuted because nobody would ever convict a white person of 'exterminating vermin'. Nevertheless there was a great deal of intermarriage in rural areas and many, many mixed race children born.
The American romanticization isn't relevant.
Gypsysoul25
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2019
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 215
the mass migration of Germans to the United States during the mid 1800s to early 1900s has watered down the gene pool of many White Americans who were more mestizo esque look in those grainy b&w Victorian era photos.most white Americans are a mix between continental European and British islanders heritage
Western Canada is home to a Mennonite community.I wonder if members of that community was involved in the Sam doe case.you may never know
edit my kindle and this autocorrect problem.sighs
Last edited:
Gypsysoul25
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2019
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 215
There is a Dukhobor community in Western Canada.perhaps members of that community took out some vigilante justice on him :t
Gypsysoul25
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2019
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 215
If I had to guess by her phenotype I think nation river lady might belong to the German Canadian community
Unlike German Americans,most German Canadians came to canada from Eastern Europe from the centuries old ausslander/East German communities ie Volga German,Baltic German,Black Sea German etc.
By DNA they often have maternal Baltic and/or Slavic mtdna which explains why she has a mostly standard Western European phenotype but at the same time there is something a bit exotic shout her appearance almost a Eurasian look since the average slav has 4% Asian granted that 4% is ancient
Last edited:
Gypsysoul25
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2019
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 215
Western Canada also has Hutterite colonies.there are more Hutterites in Canada than in the states. most Hutterites in the world live in Canada.
I know Hutterites are given a offensive stereotype as thieves in Canada
So maybe an altercation turn sour with a Hutterite
I know Hutterites are given a offensive stereotype as thieves in Canada
So maybe an altercation turn sour with a Hutterite
24/11/2019
Lengthy article, large pics. rbbm.
Who killed 'Septic Tank Sam?'
"Limestone poured over him to hide the heinous crime. A man was tied to a bed, tortured with a butane blow torch and cigarettes, sexually mutilated with farm shears and beaten before being shot in the head and chest and then dumped into a septic tank. https://tinyurl.com/r4wbbu3 Click To Tweet
RCMP found him April 13, 1977, in a 1.8-meter deep septic tank on land at an abandoned farmhouse. He was found rolled in a yellow bed sheet, which was tied with nylon rope.
The abandoned farmhouse where the septic tank was and the victim’s body discovered
April 13, 1977. (Criminally Listed photo)
RCMP investigating the case described the murder as one of the most vindictive and sadistic they had ever seen."
Forty-two years later the murder remains an unsolved Alberta cold case.
The autopsy by an Edmonton medical examiner confirmed the victim was tortured. The sexual mutilation was so severe it took the medical examiner several months to positively confirm that the body was that of a male.
His teeth and bones suggested he suffered from an unspecified illness at about the age of five.
According to RCMP, there wasn’t any evidence the victim was murdered on the property where his body was dumped."
RCMP composite drawing of the victim.
"According to a missing person’s website (Government of Canada), Septic Tank Sam is believed to have been a laborer and likely wasn’t from Alberta.
He was either a Native or Caucasian and was about 26 to 32 years old. He was about five-foot-six with a medium build, had brown hair and weighed about 154 pounds.
At the time of his death, he was wearing a blue work shirt, grey T-shirt and blue jeans. He was wearing brown shoes that were an imitation Wallabee brand. During the time of his death, there were a lot of laborers working on the construction of power lines in the area."
"RCMP believe he may have been murdered as early as April 1976.
Retired Tofield RCMP Sgt. Ed Lammerts – who was a corporal in charge of the detachment at the time of the crime in 1977 – said the victim was likely a transient."
"Sgt. Lammerts said the victim had a lot of dental work done, the work was consistent with less finished work, which means the victim may have been someone on government financial assistance.
Sgt. Lammerts said they didn’t get many tips initially.
Even though the composite drawing didn’t gain tips, Tofield RCMP got tips decades later because of a website run by amateur sleuths, said Sgt. Warren. RCMP did a tip sheet on them and they were all researched and discounted."
Sgt. Lammerts has his own theory.
Back in 1977 – only a few months before the body was found – Sgt. Lammerts, who was new to the Tofield detachment back then, responded to a call about a two to five-minute drive from the septic tank. He described the call as a “peculiar incident” but said he couldn’t “expound on that,” because if “you can’t prove it, you can’t say it.”
He thinks there may be a connection.
Sgt. Warren said there weren’t any strong suspects but he also had his own idea who may have been the killer(s).
“I have my suspicions and I will leave it at that.”
Identifying the victim key to solving the crime"
Lengthy article, large pics. rbbm.
Who killed 'Septic Tank Sam?'
"Limestone poured over him to hide the heinous crime. A man was tied to a bed, tortured with a butane blow torch and cigarettes, sexually mutilated with farm shears and beaten before being shot in the head and chest and then dumped into a septic tank. https://tinyurl.com/r4wbbu3 Click To Tweet
RCMP found him April 13, 1977, in a 1.8-meter deep septic tank on land at an abandoned farmhouse. He was found rolled in a yellow bed sheet, which was tied with nylon rope.
The abandoned farmhouse where the septic tank was and the victim’s body discovered
April 13, 1977. (Criminally Listed photo)
RCMP investigating the case described the murder as one of the most vindictive and sadistic they had ever seen."
Forty-two years later the murder remains an unsolved Alberta cold case.
The autopsy by an Edmonton medical examiner confirmed the victim was tortured. The sexual mutilation was so severe it took the medical examiner several months to positively confirm that the body was that of a male.
His teeth and bones suggested he suffered from an unspecified illness at about the age of five.
According to RCMP, there wasn’t any evidence the victim was murdered on the property where his body was dumped."
RCMP composite drawing of the victim.
"According to a missing person’s website (Government of Canada), Septic Tank Sam is believed to have been a laborer and likely wasn’t from Alberta.
He was either a Native or Caucasian and was about 26 to 32 years old. He was about five-foot-six with a medium build, had brown hair and weighed about 154 pounds.
At the time of his death, he was wearing a blue work shirt, grey T-shirt and blue jeans. He was wearing brown shoes that were an imitation Wallabee brand. During the time of his death, there were a lot of laborers working on the construction of power lines in the area."
"RCMP believe he may have been murdered as early as April 1976.
Retired Tofield RCMP Sgt. Ed Lammerts – who was a corporal in charge of the detachment at the time of the crime in 1977 – said the victim was likely a transient."
"Sgt. Lammerts said the victim had a lot of dental work done, the work was consistent with less finished work, which means the victim may have been someone on government financial assistance.
Sgt. Lammerts said they didn’t get many tips initially.
Even though the composite drawing didn’t gain tips, Tofield RCMP got tips decades later because of a website run by amateur sleuths, said Sgt. Warren. RCMP did a tip sheet on them and they were all researched and discounted."
Sgt. Lammerts has his own theory.
Back in 1977 – only a few months before the body was found – Sgt. Lammerts, who was new to the Tofield detachment back then, responded to a call about a two to five-minute drive from the septic tank. He described the call as a “peculiar incident” but said he couldn’t “expound on that,” because if “you can’t prove it, you can’t say it.”
He thinks there may be a connection.
Sgt. Warren said there weren’t any strong suspects but he also had his own idea who may have been the killer(s).
“I have my suspicions and I will leave it at that.”
Identifying the victim key to solving the crime"
Who killed 'Septic Tank Sam?' rbbm.
"Even after all these years Sgt. Warren still thinks about the murder.
“This tends to be one of the more baffling,” said Sgt. Warren who had a 41-year career with the RCMP.
Sgt. Lammerts said it’s clear the body wasn’t supposed to be found. The killer(s) went to great lengths to hide the body.
“There’s no doubt in my mind. Five to six months tops and there would have been nothing left.”
Who was capable of the brutal murder
Sgt. Lammerts said someone capable of the torture and murder isn’t normal and without a doubt is cruel.
“That type of cruelty; beaten, burn marks all over, torture, you have to have a different background to do that.”
The person who committed the murder – if still alive – would be 67 to 72 now (2019) and it hasn’t bothered his conscience (yet), he pointed out.
He said, however, that RCMP always believed that decades later, someone in their 80s, would have a guilty conscience and confess to the police, thinking at that age they wouldn’t get much, if any, jail time."
Where to call in tips
If anyone has information about this cold case they are asked to call Tofield RCMP at 780-662-3353.
The reference case number is 2012502446. Or, if you want to remain anonymous, call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477). Or go online to https://www.tipsubmit.com/webtipsstart.aspx.
Or email the National Centre for Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains at
canadasmissing-disparuscanada@rcmp-grc.gc.ca
"Even after all these years Sgt. Warren still thinks about the murder.
“This tends to be one of the more baffling,” said Sgt. Warren who had a 41-year career with the RCMP.
Sgt. Lammerts said it’s clear the body wasn’t supposed to be found. The killer(s) went to great lengths to hide the body.
“There’s no doubt in my mind. Five to six months tops and there would have been nothing left.”
Who was capable of the brutal murder
Sgt. Lammerts said someone capable of the torture and murder isn’t normal and without a doubt is cruel.
“That type of cruelty; beaten, burn marks all over, torture, you have to have a different background to do that.”
The person who committed the murder – if still alive – would be 67 to 72 now (2019) and it hasn’t bothered his conscience (yet), he pointed out.
He said, however, that RCMP always believed that decades later, someone in their 80s, would have a guilty conscience and confess to the police, thinking at that age they wouldn’t get much, if any, jail time."
Where to call in tips
If anyone has information about this cold case they are asked to call Tofield RCMP at 780-662-3353.
The reference case number is 2012502446. Or, if you want to remain anonymous, call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477). Or go online to https://www.tipsubmit.com/webtipsstart.aspx.
Or email the National Centre for Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains at
canadasmissing-disparuscanada@rcmp-grc.gc.ca
Noting this Ukrainian attraction which opened circa 1973 in the Tofield area, could Sam have worked there or perhaps was a visitor? speculation.
Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village
Wikimedia | © OpenStreetMap
Established 1974
Location Lamont County, east of Elk Island National Park, Alberta, Canada
Type open-air, living history
Website www.history.alberta.ca/ukrainianvillage
Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village
Wikimedia | © OpenStreetMap
Established 1974
Location Lamont County, east of Elk Island National Park, Alberta, Canada
Type open-air, living history
Website www.history.alberta.ca/ukrainianvillage
Gypsysoul25
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2019
- Messages
- 107
- Reaction score
- 215
while many members of the Ukrainian Canadian community are integrated into mainstream Canadian society today,my best educated was that it was different for the older generationsNoting this Ukrainian attraction which opened circa 1973 in the Tofield area, could Sam have worked there or perhaps was a visitor? speculation.
Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village
Wikimedia | © OpenStreetMap
Established 1974
Location Lamont County, east of Elk Island National Park, Alberta, Canada
Type open-air, living history
Website www.history.alberta.ca/ukrainianvillage
many Ukrainians don't have what people would call a pc mindset.if you look at the historical patterns like cossacks,rebellions against Poles,Ukrainian mafia,cases of vigilantism etc then Tofield doe might have had a fatal experience with members of the Ukrainian Canadian community.I know Western Canada did have what is (or was)known as Ukrainian colonies