Identified! NY - Manhattan, 'Midtown Jane Doe', WhtFem 16-21, 337UFNY, under concrete, ring w/ 'P McG', Feb'03 Patricia McGlone

New Posts

NamUs ruleouts as of July 2nd:

MP6796
Angela Westberry
12/01/1984
Duval
FL

MP5695
Karen Wilson
03/27/1985
Albany
NY

MP8281
Cynthia Perry
06/17/1985
Wake
NC

MP13118
Patricia McGill
05/15/1983
Collier
FL

MP20265
Valerie Smith
03/04/1981
Queens
NY

MP1232
Renee LaManna
01/08/1994
Cape May
NJ

MP8529
Priscilla McKee
03/26/1991
Virginia Beach
VA

MP6608
Cindy Rowles
08/16/1986
Ulster
NY

MP12212
Brenda Crowley
03/01/1979
Richmond
NY

MP7574
Sylvia Lwowski
09/06/1975
Richmond
NY

MP3070
Judith Brown
04/06/1977
Queens
NY

MP3166
Sandy Schlamann
03/15/1994
Orange
FL

MP30722
Tabbetha Worford
05/05/1990
Escambia
FL

MP7051
Amy Pagnac
08/05/1989
Hennepin
MN

MP4711
Andrea Durham
02/01/1990
Okaloosa
FL

MP6527
Tracy Pickett
08/12/1992
Jasper
MO

MP2484
Tracy Kroh
08/05/1989
Dauphin
PA

MP6974
Heide Wilbur
02/09/1991
Rutland
VT

MP5531
Tammie McCormick*
04/29/1986
Saratoga
NY

MP6429
Julie Moseley
12/23/1974
Tarrant
TX

MP8387
Penny McClees
02/16/1985
Arapahoe
CO

MP2493
Tracy King
07/08/1975
Adams
PA

MP8051
Judith O'Donnell
11/30/1980
New York
NY

MP5533
Denise Sheehy
07/07/1970
Queens
NY


*Tammie McCormick is listed twice.
 
Mrs. Badcrumble said:
NamUs ruleouts as of July 2nd:

MP6796
Angela Westberry
12/01/1984
Duval
FL

MP5695
Karen Wilson
03/27/1985
Albany
NY

MP8281
Cynthia Perry
06/17/1985
Wake
NC

MP13118
Patricia McGill
05/15/1983
Collier
FL

MP20265
Valerie Smith
03/04/1981
Queens
NY

MP1232
Renee LaManna
01/08/1994
Cape May
NJ

MP8529
Priscilla McKee
03/26/1991
Virginia Beach
VA

MP6608
Cindy Rowles
08/16/1986
Ulster
NY

MP12212
Brenda Crowley
03/01/1979
Richmond
NY

MP7574
Sylvia Lwowski
09/06/1975
Richmond
NY

MP3070
Judith Brown
04/06/1977
Queens
NY

MP3166
Sandy Schlamann
03/15/1994
Orange
FL

MP30722
Tabbetha Worford
05/05/1990
Escambia
FL

MP7051
Amy Pagnac
08/05/1989
Hennepin
MN

MP4711
Andrea Durham
02/01/1990
Okaloosa
FL

MP6527
Tracy Pickett
08/12/1992
Jasper
MO

MP2484
Tracy Kroh
08/05/1989
Dauphin
PA

MP6974
Heide Wilbur
02/09/1991
Rutland
VT

MP5531
Tammie McCormick*
04/29/1986
Saratoga
NY

MP6429
Julie Moseley
12/23/1974
Tarrant
TX

MP8387
Penny McClees
02/16/1985
Arapahoe
CO

MP2493
Tracy King
07/08/1975
Adams
PA

MP8051
Judith O'Donnell
11/30/1980
New York
NY

MP5533
Denise Sheehy
07/07/1970
Queens
NY


*Tammie McCormick is listed twice.
Click to expand...
MP14069
Doris Mulhern
March 5th, 1987
King
WA

has been added to the list of ruleouts per NamUs.
 

Last names beginning with M

Discover the ethnic origin and meaning of last names. Find out how surnames are ranked in popularity, how many people in the United States of America bear a particular name, and how the statistics change between 1990 and 2000 US Censuses. Last names beginning with M. And in alphabetical order.
www.americanlastnames.us www.americanlastnames.us

Commonality of Surnames that begin with McG in America.

If from true Irish background, Patrick and Patricia are common first names.

However (very important) some McG surnames are considered Jewish like McGill.

Per the ring.
 
The watch she was wearing is a Bulova. There's a date code in the back of Bulova watches. A 2 digit code. There a letter and a number. For instance, the letter L Means the decade 1950. Ah the code L6 Would mean 1956. The code on the back of her watch was obviously M (1960s) and the number 6 = 1966. Thus then knowing it's a 1966 Bulova. Typically those were made with what they called "rolled gold" cases. A base metal case with a little gold melted into it to give the appearance of real gold . So there we establish the 1966 date of the watch.
Back in the day in the 1960s, Bulova watches and Hamilton watches were usually gifted on birthdays , sweet 16 birthdays and even as a gift.
Being that the Skeletonized remains were found wrapped in a red rug, placed behind the wall, her arms and legs bound with an extension cord with panty hose wrapped around the neck is appalling. It's very possible that the killer worked on construction and was killed closer to the time of the date of the ring.
Plus the 1965 dime. I believe this date of 1965, and the 1966 watch is closer to the time she died. I believe the remains were placed in the rug in the killer's home until he had to move it. Then he found this place and went into the basement and put the remains there. Later they were exhumed upon the renovations of the building in 2003.
The ring could be a boyfriend's ring or nothing.
 
Last edited:
Detailz said:
The watch she was wearing is a Bulova. There's a date code in the back of Bulova watches. A 2 digit code. There a letter and a number. For instance, the letter L Means the decade 1950. Ah the code L6 Would mean 1956. The code on the back of her watch was obviously M (1960s) and the number 6 = 1966. Thus then knowing it's a 1966 Bulova. Typically those were made with what they called "rolled gold" cases. A base metal case with a little gold melted into it to give the appearance of real gold . So there we establish the 1966 date of the watch.
Back in the day in the 1960s, Bulova watches and Hamilton watches were usually gifted on birthdays , sweet 16 birthdays and even as a gift.
Being that the Skeletonized remains were found wrapped in a red rug, placed behind the wall, her arms and legs bound with an extension cord with panty hose wrapped around the neck is appalling. It's very possible that the killer worked on construction and was killed closer to the time of the date of the ring.
Plus the 1965 dime. I believe this date of 1965, and the 1966 watch is closer to the time she died. I believe the remains were placed in the rug in the killer's home until he had to move it. Then he found this place and went into the basement and put the remains there. Later they were exhumed upon the renovations of the building in 2003.
The ring could be a boyfriend's ring or nothing.
Click to expand...
From Post #4 in this thread: “An International Ladies Garment Workers tag of a type sewn into clothing in 1988 was recovered with the victim.”
 
This has been posted before many years ago, but I’m still unclear why investigators say the clothing tag was produced in or after 1988.

I’ve attached an image of the clothing tag photo included on the doe network page. The photo shows the back of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union tag, which has a different logo - The National Coat and Suit Industry Recovery Board. The label with both of these logos (ILGWU on front, National Coat and Suit Industry Recovery Board on back) wasn’t introduced until 1960. From what I can find, this exact iteration of the logo shown in the image was produced from 1963-1974.

theslownotion.com

Union Made — Slow Notion

This coat bears the history of organized labor initiated by women in the garment industry on one tiny tag. Editorial resident Iris Aguilar thrifted the garment, and Vintage Detective Alex Stevens digs into its connections to the American labor movement.
theslownotion.com theslownotion.com

So here are the associated dates for this UID:
-1966 Bulova watch
-dime from either 1968 or 1969
-clothing tag produced between 1963-1974
-a brand of rat poison not marketed until 1979

Assuming all of these items are related (which, who really knows), then we’d be looking for a female who went missing in 1979 or later, not 1988 or later. Thoughts?
 

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taramarie said:
This has been posted before many years ago, but I’m still unclear why investigators say the clothing tag was produced in or after 1988.

I’ve attached an image of the clothing tag photo included on the doe network page. The photo shows the back of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union tag, which has a different logo - The National Coat and Suit Industry Recovery Board. The label with both of these logos (ILGWU on front, National Coat and Suit Industry Recovery Board on back) wasn’t introduced until 1960. From what I can find, this exact iteration of the logo shown in the image was produced from 1963-1974.

theslownotion.com

Union Made — Slow Notion

This coat bears the history of organized labor initiated by women in the garment industry on one tiny tag. Editorial resident Iris Aguilar thrifted the garment, and Vintage Detective Alex Stevens digs into its connections to the American labor movement.
theslownotion.com theslownotion.com

So here are the associated dates for this UID:
-1966 Bulova watch
-dime from either 1968 or 1969
-clothing tag produced between 1963-1974
-a brand of rat poison not marketed until 1979

Assuming all of these items are related (which, who really knows), then we’d be looking for a female who went missing in 1979 or later, not 1988 or later. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
According to your research which is inclusive of all details and possible belongings of UID provided, you are saying date of death would not be after 1987? I’m trying to figure out the cap for the date.

ME has listed possible date of death 1970-1995 according to autopsy and rate of decomposition. Should we not be taking this into consideration?

You are thinking we should narrow the search from 1979 through but not including 1988, right?
 
Caring1 said:
According to your research which is inclusive of all details and possible belongings of UID provided, you are saying date of death would not be after 1987? I’m trying to figure out the cap for the date.

ME has listed possible date of death 1970-1995 according to autopsy and rate of decomposition. Should we not be taking this into consideration?

You are thinking we should narrow the search from 1979 through but not including 1988, right?
Click to expand...
I've thought for a long long time that the 1995 date is way too late. Her belongings scream to me that she disappeared before 1985. The 25-year window for date of death based on the autopsy is so broad that it's hard to conclude anything useful.
 
Caring1 said:
According to your research which is inclusive of all details and possible belongings of UID provided, you are saying date of death would not be after 1987? I’m trying to figure out the cap for the date.

ME has listed possible date of death 1970-1995 according to autopsy and rate of decomposition. Should we not be taking this into consideration?

You are thinking we should narrow the search from 1979 through but not including 1988, right?
Click to expand...

No, as I understand it, there’s no reason to consider 1988 as the cutoff date. On the contrary.

If the quoted post is correct, and the coat tag was made from 1963 to 1974, then the 1988 date is totally irrelevant to the case.

If earlier material is correct, and the tag was made from 1988 on, then 1988 is the earliest possible date of death, not a cutoff date.

MOO
 
Caring1 said:
According to your research which is inclusive of all details and possible belongings of UID provided, you are saying date of death would not be after 1987? I’m trying to figure out the cap for the date.

ME has listed possible date of death 1970-1995 according to autopsy and rate of decomposition. Should we not be taking this into consideration?

You are thinking we should narrow the search from 1979 through but not including 1988, right?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure of a cap tbh. Initially they were saying that she couldn’t have died before 1988 because of the tag, and I think my post clarifies that. It seems as though they’ve widened the possible date of death back to 1970 which makes sense. I can’t find anything that places a definitive cap on the latest date she could have died, although I think based on the evidence found with her we can guess she died before 1988. Having said that, I wouldn’t necessarily not look at anyone who went missing after 1988 but I think she probably died earlier
 
Thank you very much to all 3 of you for your response and comments on this. I love the details and critical thinking. I feel like if we narrow the search too much, we might be missing something here. Everything taken into consideration, I really do believe we are looking at 70’s-early 80’s. However, we cannot discredit the recons. They do play a big part in these older UID cases. Facial structure and features cannot be discredited based on a few years out of estimated timeline when it’s this broad.
 
The factor that's not been analyzed as it should have been is one thing. The thing that's critical.
The RUG the remains were wrapped in. Many things get caught up in rugs as we all know.
I believe the RUG could've been in the area we're the killer hid the body originally. Like a laundry room in a cellar or basement.
He hid the body in THIS basement didn't he?
I think the body was originally on a house basement laundry area. Tags fall off clothing and children go down to play while their mother does laundry. (Hence the army man figure in the remains and RUG)
They need to analyze that dye in the rug. They say that the RUG was rust colored. Many old red dyed fabrics turn brown with exposure to water and moisture. This RUG originally on my opinion was in a damp dark environment. I believe the killer gods the body in his own home.
Cellars also need rodent and rat poison.
I believe this female died between 1966 and 1973 and her body was kept in his basement until he HAD to move it. Why did he have to move it? Possibly a sale of the home.
If the killer was 30 to 45 in the time she died then he would be in his 60s or so when he moved that body. I think he grabbed the first thing near the body to wrap it in so the bones wouldn't fall out.
I think the clothing tag and toy were already on the rug. From doing laundry nearby. I think he wrapped the bones in the rug and went downtown to plant it in that wall.

Another thing that leads me to believe the clothing tag is irrelevant is the body's hands and feet tied with extension cord and the pantyhose around the neck.
I think she was assaulted and the body was unclothed. But we DO KNOW that she was probably wearing panty hose at the time she met the killer.
Why bury it behind the wall?
Why do this much work to put this body in that place?
I think this was an act of shame.
Perhaps the killer felt shame and guilt over the years and wanted it hid deep.
Why there? Why that building?
Perhaps he felt remorse and that building was the ORIGINAL area she was abducted.
Does anyone know that address??
If it were me I'd be looking for a female 13-22 that went missing in that time from 1966 to 1973. 4'11" to 5'2" (because family often mis-guesses the height etc)
I believe she knew her killer. Or hitch-hiked home.
This killer was doing A TON of work for someone a typical killer just dumps a body. He hid it deep. The fact he wrapped the body speaks to the fact of shame.
But I think that RUG had the tag on it already and the body was there at the original murder site for years, hidden.
This body was put there out of fear, shame and necessity. The clothing tag is irrelevant. In my opinion.
4'11 to 5'2"
13 to 22
Was wearing panty hose. Possibly a high school student. Just my opinion.
Also the fact she was hidden this well could indicate that it was a relative, or associate of the killer or a high profile case in that time.
Just my opinion
If the rat poison were linked to her death you'd see the enamel decay in the teeth.
You DON'T
this body was first in a storage area then moved.
Also, it might have been a deathbed confession of a father to his son who was inheriting a property so the son moved it.
Just a thought.
 
Here’s something I’m wondering. I think the theory of her being killed circa 1970s (ish) before being transported to the basement and buried under “relatively fresh concrete” closer to the discovery date is plausible. If the remains were stored in the carpet/rug at another location from the time of death until they were moved here and buried, would the remains keep their shape for the most part? Meaning investigators would still be able to tell she had been hogtied? Exact wording: The killer had bound her hands and feet with an extension cord and circled it around her neck, then wrapped her body in a patch of rust-colored carpet.

Does that make sense? I would assume bones, among other things, would become dislodged and she’d not be in the form of a skeleton anymore. Even being wrapped in the carpet/rug. Especially if decades had passed.

This is the only thing that makes me think maybe she died later. I’m really not sure though.
 
MadMcGoo said:
Here’s something I’m wondering. I think the theory of her being killed circa 1970s (ish) before being transported to the basement and buried under “relatively fresh concrete” closer to the discovery date is plausible. If the remains were stored in the carpet/rug at another location from the time of death until they were moved here and buried, would the remains keep their shape for the most part? Meaning investigators would still be able to tell she had been hogtied? Exact wording: The killer had bound her hands and feet with an extension cord and circled it around her neck, then wrapped her body in a patch of rust-colored carpet.

Does that make sense? I would assume bones, among other things, would become dislodged and she’d not be in the form of a skeleton anymore. Even being wrapped in the carpet/rug. Especially if decades had passed.

This is the only thing that makes me think maybe she died later. I’m really not sure though.
Click to expand...
I understand your thinking. But when you look at the scene where she was found after they sledgehammered that wall you'll see bones EVERYWHERE. Watch this video, the bones WEREN'T found neatly it was a cluster. You couldn't discriminate between bones and cement.
Here's the America's Most Wanted Episode that featured this unidentified female. Pause it and look at the rubble. It was a MESS. Not neatly tucked. Take a watch and pause it on the photos.
 
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