UT UT - Reed Jeppson, 15, Salt Lake City, 11 Oct 1964

[cocomod]

@cocomod Can I ask, is it just the act of sex itself that is discouraged, or are we talking everything sexual? I mean, I assume you can have a girlfriend/boyfriend and kiss & cuddle? Is this rule usually followed..or enforced?

It is okay for a person to kiss and have a boyfriend/girlfriend, jut not have sex.

The church has never (that I know about) said that we have to be 18 to drive. They may have been referencing something along the lines of not driving other kids to church activities. I don't know anything about that either as my family was never given any restrictions with regards to driving and I was born in 1970 and my older siblings were much older than I.

I personally still follow along the acquaintance or friendly abduction or even a possible accident. I don't think the animals would have killed him honestly. There are animals (bears and mountain lions) here in Utah, but rarely - and I mean rarely - is there an attack on a human. However, as I type this, I may have some second thoughts. He had his dogs with him... If his dogs chased or cornered a lion or bear, the dogs could have been killed and the animal could have then gone after Reed. Honestly, I have friends that use their dogs to chase and "tree" lions / bears. These are mountain lions (not African lions), and they are unpredictable. If a young boy (who is less experienced in hunting) came upon a situation like this, he may not have known or understood how to react. Having a lion stalk you is definitely a thing! I need to think about this theory a little harder.

I still have a hard time with the friend that says that he saw Reed an hour away from his house that day. This one has me scratching my head and wondering if he knows more than he is saying and was diverting attention away from the actual cause of his disappearance...

 

[Ciriii57]

. However, as I type this, I may have some second thoughts. He had his dogs with him... If his dogs chased or cornered a lion or bear, the dogs could have been killed and the animal could have then gone after Reed. Honestly, I have friends that use their dogs to chase and "tree" lions / bears. These are mountain lions (not African lions), and they are unpredictable. If a young boy (who is less experienced in hunting) came upon a situation like this, he may not have known or understood how to react. Having a lion stalk you is definitely a thing! I need to think about this theory a little harder.

Hey! Its definitely a possibility and for sure I believe that there are some dangerous animals out there that sometimes do attack humans.
But....if this was the case surely some remains (blood, clothes, dogs, teeth...something) would have been found. Search and rescue was pretty extensive from what I can tell (dogs, trackers, LE and experienced hikers) who checked all the gulley's, ravines, creeks, caves etc etc and not even a trace that he'd even been there was found. Can that be explained?

 

[Valiant]

Despite all the hysteria about wild animals, and I’ve been around a lot of people scared to death of wild animals having lived in the mountains, most wild animals will run and hide if they hear you coming. And if you’re walking dogs, that’s even more noise.

 

[cocomod]

Living in Utah, honestly there is always a lot of hype and scare about wild animals. I am not personally one who believes the hysteria. I studied black bears and I know they can and will skirt around humans without the human even knowing. I know that mountain lions are rarely ever seen, let alone ones to attack. They will attack small animals if outside in the dark alone. In the middle of the day, I do not really see an animal attack. The lions come out at night mostly. My friends that chase them with dogs go to a road that hasn't been traveled on and they look for tracks from the night. When one crosses the road, they let their dogs go and they follow the trail. I am back to believing that an animal attack is the farthest from the possibility in my eyes. Just my personal opinion.

Did he plan to meet someone that day? Did anyone else know or suspect where he went?

 

[Satch]

Living in Utah, honestly there is always a lot of hype and scare about wild animals. I am not personally one who believes the hysteria. I studied black bears and I know they can and will skirt around humans without the human even knowing. I know that mountain lions are rarely ever seen, let alone ones to attack. They will attack small animals if outside in the dark alone. In the middle of the day, I do not really see an animal attack. The lions come out at night mostly. My friends that chase them with dogs go to a road that hasn't been traveled on and they look for tracks from the night. When one crosses the road, they let their dogs go and they follow the trail. I am back to believing that an animal attack is the farthest from the possibility in my eyes. Just my personal opinion.

Did he plan to meet someone that day? Did anyone else know or suspect where he went?

Hello @cocomod, Thank you for sharing this information!

Did not know that you live in Utah.That really gives insight to Reed's case! Would you say that in the event of an animal attack on a human that this would most likely happen if:

1.) The animal is protecting its domain or young?
2.) The animal is rabid? Or has something else medically wrong?

I know that bear and lion attacks are rare, but when they happen, those animals mean business!

How common or rare was hypothermia on humans in the Utah Mountains? How cold does it get in the Utah Mountains in October?

Satch

 

[chart75]

Someone asked about the distance from St Mary's to the foothills. It's a little more than 1000 feet, so not far. Spring Canyon and Carrigan Canyon are close by, Emigration is a bit further to the north (past Hogle Zoo) and not shown on the map below.

Map courtesy of USGS with the buildings of St Mary's circled. The green starts the foothills.

It gets cold at night in October in Salt Lake and would have been especially frigid for a kid that only had a light jacket on and hadn't eaten all day (if he was out that late). I think the news reports indicated it snowed the following week and the search was suspended. The family also mentioned searching the canyons (plural). If you search "Spring Canyon Road" on google maps, you will see it goes quite a way up into the foothills. Carrigan Canyon Drive doesn't go quite as far and looks a little more rugged. It's been discussed before, but if the dogs took off up one of those canyons after some kind of wildlife and Reed followed, he and the dogs could have met their demise and still be up there.

Jon's podcast (thanks for posting Satch) mentioned they had 250 paper route customers. The potential for one of them to lure him in seems pretty high to me.

@Ciriii57, if the PD gets back to you, could you ask them about another organized search up the canyons and the gulley where they dug a while back?

 

[Ciriii57]

if the PD gets back to you, could you ask them about another organized search up the canyons and the gulley where they dug a while back?

Hey @chart75 I heard back from them yesterday. The information is being followed up by Salt Lake City homicide detectives, Cold case detectives and the Utah state bureau of investigations and they passed it to Namus. I was even copied in the the emails! They are also going to make contact with the Pima County sherrif (who btw as yet hasn't responded). I must say that they have been very thorough and extremely polite; they didn't make me feel like I was "just some silly civilian" haha They even told me "it's always worth a shot"

I don't want to pester them though. I honestly don't think they would initiate another search unless they recieved some information regarding a specific location; that is what prompted them to search the gully near Reed's home last time. I think they would find it hard to justify the expense of another search without some evidence. After all these years I think it would require some specialist equipment to locate anything. But as far as members of the public and private companies; I believe a search can be organised voluntarily. It does sometimes happen that quite often a private individual with sonar equipment, metal detectors or cadaver dogs who has an interest in the case can be persuaded to bring their expertise in.

 

[Ciriii57]

Did he plan to meet someone that day? Did anyone else know or suspect where he went?

It's not known if he had arranged to meet anyone that day; but I think alot of us here have suspicions that he did.

As far as suspecting where he went; I don't think any of the family members ever mentioned their suspicions:
-Suzanne was always convinced from the beginning that he was taken by a paedophile (presumably the one who lived somewhere nearby?).
-Reed's "friend" suspected that Jon knew where he was.
-LE originally suspected he might have gone to Missouri, as he had "gotten close" to a girl there.
-There was of course the family ranch in Wyoming and the summer home in Montana, but I'm not sure that these were ever seriously looked into.
-And the locals seemed to think he had run away (as per LE comments to the paedophile that "local rumour always said he ran away so what makes you say killed" and the interview Suzanne gave where insensitive friends had asked her "what was going on in that family for Reed to run away" and "Maybe Reed will come back home now" .

I always found the local rumours very interesting; I wonder what made them think he ran away....?

 

[Satch]

Jon's podcast (thanks for posting Satch) mentioned they had 250 paper route customers. The potential for one of them to lure him in seems pretty high to me.

Sup @chart75?

Last night I was thinking about Jon and Reed's shared paper route duties. WOW! 250 customers according to Jon. Wouldn't that take hours and hours and hours for them to deliver those papers? I thought maybe 50 would be a lot. That would be a 9-5 job. Has anyone here had a paper route? Doesn't that number seem high? Unless of course the newspaper office might have had maybe six carriers to cover that many subscribers.

Now I am thinking more and more about some sick pervert luring Reed in to his/her house, where tensions might have been growing between the two or their families. Was this suspected pervert on Reed and Jon's paper route? "Hey, Reed! I got some cool camping equipment, hunting equipment, fishing equipment for sale, Come over Sunday afternoon and take a look!" Maybe Reed feels the person's a little off, but is really interested as a Eagle Scout and outdoor's guy to go take a look. Maybe the guy on his route was selling a car? No teen's gonna pass up looking at a car!

So Sunday afternoon comes around and Reed is super pumped about seeing this equipment, Takes the money with him, goes inside with his dogs and over time, an argument insures, or the guy makes sexual advances to Reed. The sicko overpowers him, hurts him badly, than kills him. This could have been in the killer's basement.

Now the killer can do anything he wants with Reed's body. Get in a car, dump it even out of state somewhere. Dump it in a lake, using a rope and rock to anchor it to fall to the bottom of the lake. The number of missing people and vehicles that go missing or drown in lakes and oceans is staggering. Doing sonar searches is expensive. But I have heard of bodies recovered from lakes in cases going back from the 50's-80's. The dogs, if they sadistically were not killed by this guy, could have just run away, and gotten picked up as strays, (There were unconfirmed reports of Reed's dogs being sighted after he vanished,) Or the dogs died from being exposed to the elements.

The above scenario would show why there was no outside evidence found, I am starting to get the feeling that if Reed's body is out there, it is buried somewhere very, very deeply, such as water that will be impossible to find. Especially if the killer took Reed's body in a car.

More questions about the suspected pedophile in Reed's neighborhood:

1.) What evidence was found that showed this guy was a pedophile?

2.) Was this guy on Reed/Jon's paper route?

3.) How well did he know Reed, or his activities?

4.) How did LE determine that he was non-violent?

5.) If Reed and Jon or any other Jeppson's knew him, what personality traits where distracting to them?

6.) Did this guy take a polygraph test? Results?

Satch

 

[summergirl1]

I think something happened to Reed and the dogs that day. I don't think he left for a new life and may even be alive somewhere or was murdered or in an accident after running away. But just a thought on that note, I know the family members have given DNA, but I wonder if they have ever put their DNA on genealogy sites. If Reed left and had descendents maybe those people have tested or may one day not knowing his true story. I highly doubt it, however. That was a thought I had after thinking of a case solved recently where a woman who was kidnapped from Chicago as a baby and raised by another family and had no idea of her past had descendents who tested and were matched to her relatives and the mystery of what happened to the missing baby from Chicago in the 1930s was solved. By then she was long deceased though.

 

[bettyboop]

I have been following along and just wanted to give a shoutout to
@Satch and @Ciriii57 for all the great work you have been doing!!
Bravo! <modsnip>

 

[chart75]

Hey Satch,

That's a good list. #2 jumps off the paper. I'm not sure how many pedo's were in Salt Lake when Reed disappeared, but at least one that the PD interviewed. His attitude when interviewed was troubling, but they apparently didn't have any evidence to tie him to Reed's disappearance. There's no sign that he took a polygraph from what I've read.

 

[Satch]

"In Jon's original interview he said of his and Reed's day:

1. Priesthood Meeting (which we now know was before lunch)
2. Sunday School after lunch
3. Sacrament (at about 4pm)"

*********************************************************************
A question regarding the above, if you were a Mormon and especially affiliated with the LDS Church, was it normal to do all these activities on a Sunday? I mean, for Catholics they would go to Sunday Mass, and than you would have four times out of the year when you had a "Holy Day of Obligation" where you had to go to church.

But if this was every week and part of a teen's life that might have weighed on Reed, in a stressful way, I could see where he might have wanted out of the church and just help people in a free and natural way.

On the other hand, were some of these meetings optional, and because the Jeppson's were so religious, they just went to all of them?

Satch

 

[Satch]

Hi All!

Thanks for everyone's help!<modsnip> We want all theories examined from Reed running away, abduction/murder, accident. The least likely IMO is suicide.

If you follow allow the accident theory, here is an article about Sinkholes in Utah

GeoSights: Sinkholes in Big Round Valley, Washington County - Utah Geological Survey

A sinkhole is a surface depression or hole created by the collapse of an underlying cave. Several spectacularly large sinkholes can be seen adjacent to the Virgin River just north of the Arizona border in Big Round Valley, Washington County.

geology.utah.gov

I personally think that neighborhood pedophile should have been checked out more.

Satch

 

[Ciriii57]

I personally think that neighborhood pedophile should have been checked out more.

I agree, it's not one of the angles that I have looked into much (until now). But it definitely requires more consideration.
To start with though I think we should establish one thing, if Reed's disappearance was related to a sexual assault then it definitely was NOT a paedophile. Despite the media (and often LE too) referring to anyone who commits a sexual act with a minor as a paedophile this is not the case. A paedophile specifically targets pre-pubescent children (13 years is the maximum age range). I do think it is an important distiction because the M.O. of a paedophile will be very different to the M.O. of someone targetting a mid-late teens. We are not looking at some creep hanging around playgrounds waiting to snatch little kids. No, this person will likely have played a longer game, potentially grooming and building a relationship with his victims.
So below I have tried to build a potentil profile of what I think this person would have been like. This is based on an attack that may have had a sexual motive, rather than just outright murder.

Ok so I think there are 2 possible personality types that we are dealing with here, either:
1) A person who has an uncontrollable, probably violent, sexual desire for young men/teens

OR​

2) A gay man, who, for some reason, is unable to meet men of his own age/sexual preference and therefore possibly uses his position to seduce young men/teens.

Now with option 1 I would expect to have seen more crimes of this nature committed in the area, or similar crimes elsewhere (potentially there was a serial violent rapist and murderer and the links have just not been picked up as being committed by 1 person)
With option 2 (which I personally feel is more likely) I think that we may be looking at a gay man who was unable to express his sexuality for some reason such as: he was married, he lived with his parents, he was high up in the church. He may have been in a position of authority (teacher, coach, priest, scout leader...) and used this position to seduce young men. If this is the case then murder was probably not the aim of an encounter with Reed, but something happened that led to Reed's death.
Concentrating on option 2, I have tentatively created the below potential profile:

• Almost certainly male
• Gay, but not openly. Apart from the year being a major factor I think there was something else that prevented this person meeting other men in the usual ways that they did in 1964, so this person may have been:

-Married
-Lived with parents/family
-High up in the church​

• I think they are aged between 20-40 and most likely 25-35. This is because I think they needed to be young enough to have something in common with the young men but also be older than them.​
• This person would have been local and was most probably on Reed's paper round. Reed would have known this person well enough to engage in conversation and possibly was even Reed's coach, scout leader, teacher, a friend's parent or another person in a position of authority.​
• I think it is likely that this person had previously had sexual contact with other young men in the area(possibly even Reed's friends). These encounters may have gone unreported because either the boys were too embarrassed or they had been willing (either they were gay themselves, they had been seduced or had been willing participants)-this happens alot more than is generally realised/reported amongst young men especially with confused and sexually active teens.​
• This person probably had something he used as an opener to talk to and get close to the young men, so for instance he may have had- a cool car, expensive music system, animals, *advertiser censored* magazines or possibly a camera (it was very common for someone to show their camera, offer to take modelling photos and then use this as a means to initiate sexual contact-in fact I believe a couple if serial killers used this technique)​
• I think this person had to have their own vehicle OR a property with alot of land. Because Reed was either transported elsewhere to some very secluded spot, or was buried on the grounds of someone's home.​

Anyway, if we imagine Reed being lured into this guys house for whatever reason. But it did not go as planned. Possibly Reed refused any advances and threatened to expose this man and was murdered as a result. There could also be many other scenarios; for instance this person could have used drugs on Reed which killed him.

We also need to consider the theory that Reed went willingly to meet this person and had met them before; it may explain Jon's/Reed's friend's behaviour. You would think they would want to name the person, unless it was more important to protect Reed's memory from any action perceieved as damaging to him/the family.

Reed may also have been sex-trafficked (although I don't know if this was even a thing in the 60's?)

​

 

[Satch]

Guys,

Since Reed was an Eagle Scout, I searched "What do Eagle Scouts do?" It is the highest rank in scouting.It is demonstrated by leadership, character, citizenship, and service to the community at local, national, and even international levels, with an intense community network and participation in outdoor recreation, wilderness skills, social skills, and family/community involvement. I also read at some other forum that if you have an average group of scouts in a room, only four or fewer ever achieve Eagle Scout rankings:

Eagle Award Requirements | Atlanta Area Council | Boy Scouts of America

The Atlanta Area Council is a local council of the Boy Scouts of America. It serves 13 northern Georgia counties: Carroll, Cherokee, Clayton, Cobb, DeKalb, Douglas, Fulton, Gwinnett, Haralson, Newton, Paulding, Pickens, and Rockdale.

www.atlantabsa.org

I don't know what the requirements were in 1964, but were probably similar to today.

Here is another site that talks specifically about scouting in Utah:

Eagle Scout Resources | Crossroads of the West Council, BSA

Scouting is fun, hands-on learning and achievement that puts kids in the middle of the action and prepares them for today and for life.

www.utahscouts.org

Satch

 

[ghost story]

"In Jon's original interview he said of his and Reed's day:

1. Priesthood Meeting (which we now know was before lunch)
2. Sunday School after lunch
3. Sacrament (at about 4pm)"

*********************************************************************
A question regarding the above, if you were a Mormon and especially affiliated with the LDS Church, was it normal to do all these activities on a Sunday? I mean, for Catholics they would go to Sunday Mass, and than you would have four times out of the year when you had a "Holy Day of Obligation" where you had to go to church.

But if this was every week and part of a teen's life that might have weighed on Reed, in a stressful way, I could see where he might have wanted out of the church and just help people in a free and natural way.

On the other hand, were some of these meetings optional, and because the Jeppson's were so religious, they just went to all of them?

Satch

In those days it was the structure of all Mormon churches to have those meetings on Sunday. Your day was pretty well taken up with 3+ hours of meetings. It is still roughly the same with changes in some of the meeting durations and there isn't a break between meetings (get it all done and go home). At least it was the last time I went 10+ years ago.

 

[ghost story]

Guys,

Since Reed was an Eagle Scout, I searched "What do Eagle Scouts do?" It is the highest rank in scouting.It is demonstrated by leadership, character, citizenship, and service to the community at local, national, and even international levels, with an intense community network and participation in outdoor recreation, wilderness skills, social skills, and family/community involvement. I also read at some other forum that if you have an average group of scouts in a room, only four or fewer ever achieve Eagle Scout rankings:

Eagle Award Requirements | Atlanta Area Council | Boy Scouts of America

The Atlanta Area Council is a local council of the Boy Scouts of America. It serves 13 northern Georgia counties: Carroll, Cherokee, Clayton, Cobb, DeKalb, Douglas, Fulton, Gwinnett, Haralson, Newton, Paulding, Pickens, and Rockdale.

www.atlantabsa.org

I don't know what the requirements were in 1964, but were probably similar to today.

Here is another site that talks specifically about scouting in Utah:

Eagle Scout Resources | Crossroads of the West Council, BSA

Scouting is fun, hands-on learning and achievement that puts kids in the middle of the action and prepares them for today and for life.

www.utahscouts.org

Satch

The Mormon church was very supportive of the BSA, they liked the common themes they had with the program and young men were encouraged to take part in the program. It was kind of assumed that all young male church members would work on scouting achievements and the church organized and supported scout groups.

 

[Satch]

Ok so I think there are 2 possible personality types that we are dealing with here, either:
1) A person who has an uncontrollable, probably violent, sexual desire for young men/teens

OR​

2) A gay man, who, for some reason, is unable to meet men of his own age/sexual preference and therefore possibly uses his position to seduce young men/teens.

Now with option 1 I would expect to have seen more crimes of this nature committed in the area, or similar crimes elsewhere (potentially there was a serial violent rapist and murderer and the links have just not been picked up as being committed by 1 person)
With option 2 (which I personally feel is more likely) I think that we may be looking at a gay man who was unable to express his sexuality for some reason such as: he was married, he lived with his parents, he was high up in the church. He may have been in a position of authority (teacher, coach, priest, scout leader...) and used this position to seduce young men. If this is the case then murder was probably not the aim of an encounter with Reed, but something happened that led to Reed's death.
Concentrating on option 2, I have tentatively created the below potential profile:

• Almost certainly male
• Gay, but not openly. Apart from the year being a major factor I think there was something else that prevented this person meeting other men in the usual ways that they did in 1964, so this person may have been:

-Married
-Lived with parents/family
-High up in the church​

• I think they are aged between 20-40 and most likely 25-35. This is because I think they needed to be young enough to have something in common with the young men but also be older than them.​
• This person would have been local and was most probably on Reed's paper round. Reed would have known this person well enough to engage in conversation and possibly was even Reed's coach, scout leader, teacher, a friend's parent or another person in a position of authority.​
• I think it is likely that this person had previously had sexual contact with other young men in the area(possibly even Reed's friends). These encounters may have gone unreported because either the boys were too embarrassed or they had been willing (either they were gay themselves, they had been seduced or had been willing participants)-this happens alot more than is generally realised/reported amongst young men especially with confused and sexually active teens.​
• This person probably had something he used as an opener to talk to and get close to the young men, so for instance he may have had- a cool car, expensive music system, animals, *advertiser censored* magazines or possibly a camera (it was very common for someone to show their camera, offer to take modelling photos and then use this as a means to initiate sexual contact-in fact I believe a couple if serial killers used this technique)​
• I think this person had to have their own vehicle OR a property with alot of land. Because Reed was either transported elsewhere to some very secluded spot, or was buried on the grounds of someone's home.​

Anyway, if we imagine Reed being lured into this guys house for whatever reason. But it did not go as planned. Possibly Reed refused any advances and threatened to expose this man and was murdered as a result. There could also be many other scenarios; for instance this person could have used drugs on Reed which killed him.

We also need to consider the theory that Reed went willingly to meet this person and had met them before; it may explain Jon's/Reed's friend's behaviour. You would think they would want to name the person, unless it was more important to protect Reed's memory from any action perceieved as damaging to him/the family.

Brilliant insight @Ciriii57!

Like Suzanne, who believes a "pedophile got Reed", I also "lumped" the pedophile theory in Reed's case the same way as many other people do that. But your explanation clarifies what is most likely IF Reed was taken and sexually abused, this was not by some perp who wanted to sexually abuse kids. This also might not have been someone who was targeting all teens. (Although that is higher than a pedophile.) No, if Reed was lured into someone's house, or was manipulated into meeting someone with his saving's account money, this was a "private situation that did not go as planned.' And when it didn't go as planned, this person sought revenge by making sexual advances to Reed as a form of manipulation and control. But Reed refused the advances and threatened to speak out against this person, and was killed to keep his mouth shut,and also likely to keep the perpetrators position intact.

Do they have a specific name for one who targets teens in a sexual way? This is because I too,have heard the term "pedophile" over-used in a general way.

We also can't rule out the "Revenge Factor." Reed got a position in school, church, or scouting, or anything, that the killer's kid was supposed to get, and this could have been the MO if one supports that Reed was abducted. If this is the case, Reed's remains are very likely in a very, very hard to find area, in deep down, very isolated land, submerged in water, or even in a neighboring state. The bait to lure him in, like @Ciriii57 said, a car, a music system, outdoor equipment. If this was an abduction by luring, Reed most likely, knew this person, his dogs, and even his family, and probably Reed's friends. Reed was very aware of his surroundings in environmental skills, very sociable, popular, witty. and sophisticated for his age. There was probably a very long-term plan used by the killer to gain his false trust if he was abducted and murdered.

Satch

 

[Ciriii57]

Do they have a specific name for one who targets teens in a sexual way? This is because I too,have heard the term "pedophile" over-used in a general way.

Yes, there are 2 further terms. Someone sexually attracted to a teen aged 13-15 (early teens) is called a Hebephile. Someone attracted to ages 15-19 is called an Ephebephile. Just to be clear, unlike the others, an Ephebephile is not classed as a mental disorder because adolescents of this age have physical characteristics near identical to legal adults and it is very common for adults to be sexually attracted to adolescents. (Here in Europe for instance where the age of consent is generally much lower than the US, it's not unusual for a late teen to be in a sexual relationship with an older person).
Its common to lump everyone in as a paedophile, which is fine, as long as we remember that there would be different M.O.s between say someone targeting Reed and someone targeting a 6 yr old. That's very important.

IF Reed was assaulted in this way then we may have more of an idea of who was responsible: 100% he knew this person and I reckon his friend/brother did too. I wonder if Reed knew someone he met up with while walking the dogs, someone whom he got closer to because of a common interest in the dogs. There's your way in right there.