Titanic tourist sub goes missing in Atlantic Ocean, June 2023 #3

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How do we feel about PH taking items from The Titanic to sell on to collectors .. Titanic expert on sub helped collect haul of artifacts from wreck

This is a fascinating question: salvage of Titanic artifacts is so controversial. I did wonder why PH was making this trip, because in 2020 Nargeolet planned a mission to recover Titanic's Marconi telegraph machine. The US government tried to stop that expedition but in May 2020 a judge agreed that because the telegraph is historically important and could soon disappear due to decay, the expedition could proceed.

At that point NOAA made a legal challenge, saying it represents the public's interest. Essentially, NOAA wants to control all dives to the Titanic. I think this case is still tied up in appeals? If anyone knows, it would be interesting to learn the status.

Meanwhile, the Marconi wireless radio onboard --and all the information it contains--is in danger of being lost forever.
 
I think wealth inequality is a big part of it. The gap between the richest and poorest has only gotten wider, and we’re constantly seeing news of billionaire bad actors doing dumb or extremely harmful things. Combined with the pandemic (which worsened wealth inequality, doubled grocery prices while providing record profits to the giant food corps, AND made people more … generally hostile and less empathetic), the Titan situation was just an unfortunate flashpoint for a lot of frustration.

I don’t think the same reaction would have occurred if this happened even five years ago. There would be some nasty internet trolls, but it wouldn’t be quite so … widespread.

Edit: also, TikTok. Sigh.

JMO.
Exactly. Social media is a factor as it amplifies it. The 2008 Recession played a role on top on income inequality. The COVID pandemic is part of the problem. COVID is more of an accelerant.

As for the Titan submersible, it is one giant Charlie Foxtrot, like the Titanic disaster. Murphy's law applies well. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.

 
The Titanic's wreckage is both a memorial site as well as a grave. None of this should have ever been disturbed or especially exploited. IMO, it should be a crime to desecrate the artifacts of the Titanic, especially for profit.

Until 1985, the site had been able to rest in the peace of the ocean's floor.

IMO, out of respect, we need to let this site remain undisturbed in the future and let nature take it's course.

No more tourism.

JMO
 
Something else wealthy people and explorers have in common is very high risk tolerance. They’re not concerned by taking risks and chances, which is often why they’re ultimately successful (but saying always). Meanwhile a lot of us pay head to risk taking by factoring in what could happen in the worst case scenario. Whether that’s practical or smart or it’s what limits our chances of success is entirely another debate.

The explorers may end in the situation when their survival will depend solely on themselves. So they must have lots of useful skills besides being "the visionaries". How to make a shelter from primitive materials, for example. Same holds true for the people who started business from a scratch in someone's garage and ended up billionaires. So I assume they all are smart in a well-rounded way. And hence putting too much trust in themselves is part of their nature.

Even the leaders who don't have good dexterity or orientation but survive are peculiar. I once knew a person who was a klutz, so to say, but nonetheless, he managed to survive a week in the taiga. That he got lost is unsurprising, but he learned a lot by quietly watching the behavior of animals, such as bears. (What berries they ate, what they drank.)
Later, he became a good leader who also learned a lot from successful humans.

(The most interesting thing is to read about Ford's beginnings.)

This is a fascinating question: salvage of Titanic artifacts is so controversial. I did wonder why PH was making this trip, because in 2020 Nargeolet planned a mission to recover Titanic's Marconi telegraph machine. The US government tried to stop that expedition but in May 2020 a judge agreed that because the telegraph is historically important and could soon disappear due to decay, the expedition could proceed.

At that point NOAA made a legal challenge, saying it represents the public's interest. Essentially, NOAA wants to control all dives to the Titanic. I think this case is still tied up in appeals? If anyone knows, it would be interesting to learn the status.

Meanwhile, the Marconi wireless radio onboard --and all the information it contains--is in danger of being lost forever.

We know that many companies have been pillaging sunken ships.


This is by far not the only case. However, who do the ships and the artifacts found on them belong to?

Here is the controversy regarding Titanic.


All of this being said, don't the living relatives of the victims have the right of inheritance? Let us say, a ring has been recovered that belonged to a passenger and there are photos confirming the ownership. Who is the rightful heir: the company that made many dives to recover the artifacts, or the living heirs of the person it once belonged to?
 
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You need to provide Stockton's quote in context. He said "AT SOME POINT, safety is just pure waste." He was making a comment about over regulation. While I place the blame for this tragedy on his shoulders, we need to be accurate in what we post. He was accurate in many of his comments about regulations. He just went way, way WAY overboard on that.
How is being classed and certified over regulation? Oceangate did none of the classing and certification. If I had heard CEO Stockton Rush make the comment that "At some point, safety is just pure waste", I would not have gotten on the Titan.

While I agree that there can be over regulation, this is probably why so many others in the submersible industry wanted him to get classed and certified so that there is not even more regulation. The people that were trying to warn him knew what could happen if he was wrong.

I can at least understand if the structural problem ends up being the submersible design with the hull because after the Titan made successful trips to the Titanic CEO Stockton Rush probably thought everyone else was wrong. It worked so maybe he thought Titan was safe. I am going to assume at this time that since most people who know about submersibles and the materials involved in the design seem to think it was the carbon fiber hull or the titanium seal to the carbon fiber hull, that 5 people did not die due to a CEO and his company not wanting to take the time to fully test a 7 inch thick piece of acrylic. What is strange is that Oceangate had monitors on the hull so if something did happen there should at least be some sort of data they have leading up to the accident. There is speculation that the Titan was trying to return to the surface suggesting they knew they had a problem.

It will be interesting to find out what the structural failure was on the Titan submersible.
 
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