TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[jetsfanjohn]

But if she was at Minot Ave at 1 pm, and killed shortly thereafter, why wasn't her car found until almost 8 hours later? There were people actively searching for that car earlier that evening. That's a pretty big time gap, considering Minot Ave is only minutes from Seminary South. Where was that car all afternoon? Why is ST the only known "witness" who saw that car in that time period? It doesn't add up.
Rachel wasn't 'last seen at Seminary South'. She was 'last seen'

Good point about her last been seen in the car, but was the car not found around 6pm when the family members went to the Mall ? That would be less that eight hours later.

I am of the opinion that this sighting in the car was after the girls had returned from the Mall and thus it knocks VB down the suspect list for me.

Was there not also a 'witness' that saw all three girls at the house at Minot Ave around 12.30pm/1.00pm ?

 

[Brightchaser47]

Good point about her last been seen in the car, but was the car not found around 6pm when the family members went to the Mall ? That would be less that eight hours later.

I'd understood it to be around 8:30 pm, but that's still a pretty good gap unaccounted for.

I am of the opinion that this sighting in the car was after the girls had returned from the Mall and thus it knocks VB down the suspect list for me.

At this point, I'm not 100% they made it to the mall and VB isn't even on the list anymore, for me. I think he was a diversion or rabbit hole. I think he and TM were up to something that didn't involve the girls.

Was there not also a 'witness' that saw all three girls at the house at Minot Ave around 12.30pm/1.00pm ?

If I'm not mistaken, that 'witness' was ST, unless you're referring to DA's claim on Rachel's Missing Person report.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Regarding the debate on how involved the FBI was or wasn't, do we know for sure that FWPD did indeed have the letter and  Rachel's handwriting analyzed by the FBI? Because if Officer Wilbanks didn't really want to investigate this case, and didn't want the FBI involved, he could claim the analysis was being done, whether it was or not. Saying the results were "inconclusive" would get him off the hook. The news media would be reporting the information they were being fed from LE (Wilbanks, since he was in charge). How were the families actually notified of those results?
As for the claim that the FBI took the photo booth negatives from the mall, I'm not so sure about that. To my knowledge, there have been no other claims whatsoever to substantiate that. DJ never made mention of it (or LE). Also, on one of the busiest shopping days of the year, three girls-- young, spirited girls-- took time to take photos, and no one claims to have seen them at the booth, or waiting in line, or making over the pictures ( everyone does that).
The FWPD Forensics Lab was shut down for alleged malpractice (that's another story) the same year that letter was allegedly being processed (the same year as that press conference)--2001.
Now, it's my understanding that no one on the face of the earth is permitted to take even a peak at that letter. I find that a bit odd. I'd think, if they  really wanted to settle this, they'd get it into the hands of the best experts crowdfunding could buy, and analyze the daylights out of it. But no, it's sitting somewhere...

 

[beubeubeu]

I was under impression that it was just somebodys best guess that the only way how LE could be sure that girls made it to the mall was for them to find that they took pics in photobooth there - not even someone claiming to allegedly know this as a fact...

 

[Brightchaser47]

I know FA's next- door neighbor claimed the A car never left the house that day, but I don't recall any mention of a vehicle coming to the house at any point that day. And is it certain that CA/FA only had one vehicle at their home?

 

[Brightchaser47]

I was under impression that it was just somebodys best guess that the only way how LE could be sure that girls made it to the mall was for them to find that they took pics in photobooth there - not even someone claiming to allegedly know this as a fact...

Check FW_Froggy's post (thread 7, pg 12, post 229). I myself am questioning LE's wording during that press conference (and the interpretation of it), but...

 

[Brightchaser47]

For those who wonder what kind of relationship DJ really had with FWPD and/or the Public Defender's Office regarding this case-- his 'notes/findings' were addressed to an individual at FWPD Major Case Unit, who'd retired from the force, six years prior. Although the individual did work at the Public Defender's Office as an attorney in that time frame, his office would've been at the courthouse, not the police department.
So, was DJ playing the families, or was FWPD playing him?

 

[Brightchaser47]

I was under impression that it was just somebodys best guess that the only way how LE could be sure that girls made it to the mall was for them to find that they took pics in photobooth there - not even someone claiming to allegedly know this as a fact...

There is a possible scenario that would explain what happened to the girls that day, and make the question of whether they made it to the mall irrelevant, imo.
It's possible that DA, ST (and possibly SM) were at Minot involved with drugs. At some point, (whether after A/N or the mall), the girls stopped at Minot, where they were offered something, or accidentally ingested something, that proved fatal. The adults panicked, and perhaps phone calls were made. I'm not sure who moved the bodies, but the Olds could've been used for this purpose, before it was 'staged' at the mall, where the girls were expected to have been last.
I think TT's involvement was after the fact. Although he wasn't directly responsible for the girls' deaths, he didn't want a) to face the families with the truth, or b) the FBI's involvement.  Nobody in that little group wanted to go to prison.. The idea that the letter was to buy time and keep LE from investigating and the FBI from getting involved still holds true in this scenario. I don't know who wrote it, but it was 'produced' to LE, followed by one of TT's own pre-addressed envelopes. Then it was a matter of all parties involved coming up with alibis (good, bad, and otherwise)...
This is all speculation, but it does explain a lot, IMO.

 

[T rex]

Rusty is keen to highlight Debra’s troubling past, but according to James, Renee and especially Rachel were caught up in the same bad crowd. James also said friends of Rachel told him Rachel was having multiple affairs while married to Tommy. “She just made bad, bad decisions.”

Which makes TT suspecting DA's ex-boyfriend all the more interesting, IMO.

Now I have always said that I believe TT and DA are either directly or indirectly involved and for the most part I still feel that way but I also feel like I should look at other possibilities too and if someone in this crowd had the wool pulled over them it just about had to be TT.

Thread 5, post #106

TX - TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #5

If he really was involved with the disappearance of the girls, it'd be odd for him to say right away that he knew Rachel hadn't written the note; it'd have given him an alibi.

www.websleuths.com

According to one of his insiders TT from the start thought it was the ex-boyfriend for ransom but after some time went by it changed to sex trafficking. So the motive changes but does the suspect change?
In a newspaper article only four days after the girls go missing TT says that after discussing it with DA they figured it was foul play. This is right in the same early time frame that according to the insider TT suspected the ex. This leaves me thinking that DA apparently had a lot to do with shaping those thoughts in TT's mind.
So are they all innocent of any involvement, are they pulling the wool over TT, or are all of them trying to pull the wool over everyone else?

Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Dec 27 1974
Pg 4

Article clipped from Fort Worth Star-Telegram

Clipping found in Fort Worth Star-Telegram published in Fort Worth, Texas on 12/27/1974.

www.newspapers.com

 

[Brightchaser47]

Which makes TT suspecting DA's ex-boyfriend all the more interesting, IMO.

According to one of his insiders TT from the start thought it was the ex-boyfriend for ransom but after some time went by it changed to sex trafficking. So the motive changes but does the suspect change?
In a newspaper article only four days after the girls go missing TT says that after discussing it with DA they figured it was foul play. This is right in the same early time frame that according to the insider TT suspected the ex.

This leaves me thinking that DA apparently had a lot to do with shaping those thoughts in TT's mind.

One thing many people seem to agree on in this saga, is that DA is incredibly capable of deceiving and manipulating people. So, I'm wondering if EC was a diversion, as I believe VB was. Since EC traveled so much with fellow band members, I'm doubting he actually had his own place (for DA to leave, go back to); he probably shared a place with roommates. In fact, it seems he and DA were 'together' a very short time (read "barely knew each other").
Actually, I believe DA knew SM longer and better than she did the other men who've been mentioned, and I can see SM being (unwittingly) involved in whatever happened. He allegedly changed his story a few times, too...

 

[FW_Froggy]

One thing many people seem to agree on in this saga, is that DA is incredibly capable of deceiving and manipulating people. So, I'm wondering if EC was a diversion, as I believe VB was. Since EC traveled so much with fellow band members, I'm doubting he actually had his own place (for DA to leave, go back to); he probably shared a place with roommates. In fact, it seems he and DA were 'together' a very short time (read "barely knew each other").
Actually, I believe DA knew SM longer and better than she did the other men who've been mentioned, and I can see SM being (unwittingly) involved in whatever happened. He allegedly changed his story a few times, too...

Yep After ALL she made a living separating guys from their Money....

 

[T rex]

I've heard that on here. Is the family digging gas wells, water wells, oil wells, or are they Just Digging?

I don't know how much the A's could have been involved in oil but it looks like the T's were, although I'm not sure about at the time the girls went missing but at least by about a month later.
I found this clipping of an oil lease with JPT, the grandfather. I couldn't be for certain it was the right person but then I noticed just above this record, just above the highlighted area, is another record. The name caught my eye (AJR), it's the nephew of JPT and he's leasing out his land at the same time. Now I'm confident that I have the right person.

The Weimar Mercury
June 12 1975
Pg 10

Jun 12, 1975, page 10 - The Weimar Mercury at Newspapers.com - Newspapers.com

View the digital scanned newspaper from The Weimar Mercury dated Jun 12, 1975, page 10.

www.newspapers.com

 

[Pricklykitty]

Which makes TT suspecting DA's ex-boyfriend all the more interesting, IMO.

Now I have always said that I believe TT and DA are either directly or indirectly involved and for the most part I still feel that way but I also feel like I should look at other possibilities too and if someone in this crowd had the wool pulled over them it just about had to be TT.

Thread 5, post #106

TX - TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #5

If he really was involved with the disappearance of the girls, it'd be odd for him to say right away that he knew Rachel hadn't written the note; it'd have given him an alibi.

www.websleuths.com

According to one of his insiders TT from the start thought it was the ex-boyfriend for ransom but after some time went by it changed to sex trafficking. So the motive changes but does the suspect change?
In a newspaper article only four days after the girls go missing TT says that after discussing it with DA they figured it was foul play. This is right in the same early time frame that according to the insider TT suspected the ex. This leaves me thinking that DA apparently had a lot to do with shaping those thoughts in TT's mind.
So are they all innocent of any involvement, are they pulling the wool over TT, or are all of them trying to pull the wool over everyone else?

Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Dec 27 1974
Pg 4

Article clipped from Fort Worth Star-Telegram

Clipping found in Fort Worth Star-Telegram published in Fort Worth, Texas on 12/27/1974.

www.newspapers.com

I think I'd have to agree with you that I always come back to DA and,TT, and initially believed them both in cahoots, but now I'm questioning when TT became involved, and if he were having the wool pulled over his eyes to some degree.
There is always a big push to point the finger at TT that its easy to overlook others that could well be involved.

One major issue for this case is the amount of people surrounding it who don't tell the truth, for whatever reason. They can't all be involved, yet we have statements that make no sense, changing alibis, people in several places at the same time, forgotten memories, hidden people, people who weren't alive at the time changing the narrative, some crazy family dynamics, questionable P I's and a huge amount of pot stirring to contend with before anyone can even begin to get to the facts.

So its probably a good thing to be looking at alternatives to the TT did it narrative since that hasn't resulted in anything for nearly 50 years.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

I think I'd have to agree with you that I always come back to DA and,TT, and initially believed them both in cahoots, but now I'm questioning when TT became involved, and if he were having the wool pulled over his eyes to some degree.
There is always a big push to point the finger at TT that its easy to overlook others that could well be involved.

One major issue for this case is the amount of people surrounding it who don't tell the truth, for whatever reason. They can't all be involved, yet we have statements that make no sense, changing alibis, people in several places at the same time, forgotten memories, hidden people, people who weren't alive at the time changing the narrative, some crazy family dynamics, questionable P I's and a huge amount of pot stirring to contend with before anyone can even begin to get to the facts.

So its probably a good thing to be looking at alternatives to the TT did it narrative since that hasn't resulted in anything for nearly 50 years.

Yes for me the 'Runaway' letter puts TT and DA in the frame. I have questions about CA and to a lesser extent VB. Their movements that day have never been confirmed either, although I can't really come up with a theory whereby VB is the culprit.

JMO, but I feel the narrative for the last 50 years has not been 'TT did it', but that the girls were abducted from the Mall. It is a narrative that I believe everyone should question.

 

[T rex]

So its probably a good thing to be looking at alternatives to the TT did it narrative since that hasn't resulted in anything for nearly 50 years.

So if we assume that TT has been honest and we go back to his earliest thoughts on this case what was the whole ransom thing about?
Could TT and/or some of the others have misrepresented him and his finances?
Is it possible that the word ransom could be a substitute for collateral?
Could some of these people have gotten in over there heads with someone and when this someone realized there was no money then ransom/collateral turned to sex trafficking in order to cut some losses?

I don't know, I'm just throwing some stuff out here.

 

[FW_Froggy]

I think if there was Any way the Mall lawyers could of proved those Girls were never at that Mall they certainly would have. The publicity from the Girls disappearing at the Mall cost that Mall TONS of Money.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

I think if there was Any way the Mall lawyers could of proved those Girls were never at that Mall they certainly would have. The publicity from the Girls disappearing at the Mall cost that Mall TONS of Money.

Do you think they made it to the Mall that day ?

My own opinion is that they probably did, late morning, but did not stay long. I don't think they were abducted from there, but I obviously cannot be 100% certain on that.

 

[FW_Froggy]

Do you think they made it to the Mall that day ?

My own opinion is that they probably did, late morning, but did not stay long. I don't think they were abducted from there, but I obviously cannot be 100% certain on that.

Yes I do. LE has told us hardly anything BUT they did say the Girls were at the Mall. I also think if LE would check ALL the Land owned by ALL the relatives back then they just might find them (JMO).

 

[Pricklykitty]

So if we assume that TT has been honest and we go back to his earliest thoughts on this case what was the whole ransom thing about?
Could TT and/or some of the others have misrepresented him and his finances?
Is it possible that the word ransom could be a substitute for collateral?
Could some of these people have gotten in over there heads with someone and when this someone realized there was no money then ransom/collateral turned to sex trafficking in order to cut some losses?

I don't know, I'm just throwing some stuff out here.

This is a scenario I've thought about too. It doesn't have to change the people who come to mind in this case either. Its possible TT made out he was wealthier than he was, but equally possible that any of the A family made out TT had a much stronger bank account than he did.
I've got questions around that letter, and if it was sent to buy more time before le were more involved, but if so, was that time to bury the bodies, or time to try and resolve a situation themselves before le started poking around?
Is the lack of money and a situation taking a turn the reason DA took off back to Dallas just days after her sister went missing, and back to a situation that, according to her, had resulted in her needing to commute to Dallas from fort worth, and live with her nearly married sister and her own ex fiancee for the previous weeks? Seems that was resolved quickly, almost like it was a made up situation that gave her the need to be living on Minot imo

 

[T rex]

This is a scenario I've thought about too. It doesn't have to change the people who come to mind in this case either. Its possible TT made out he was wealthier than he was, but equally possible that any of the A family made out TT had a much stronger bank account than he did.
I've got questions around that letter, and if it was sent to buy more time before le were more involved, but if so, was that time to bury the bodies, or time to try and resolve a situation themselves before le started poking around?
Is the lack of money and a situation taking a turn the reason DA took off back to Dallas just days after her sister went missing, and back to a situation that, according to her, had resulted in her needing to commute to Dallas from fort worth, and live with her nearly married sister and her own ex fiancee for the previous weeks? Seems that was resolved quickly, almost like it was a made up situation that gave her the need to be living on Minot imo

You could be on to something about DA going back and forth. If we consider a scenario like this then we might need to consider the possibility that something else was in the evelope that morning and I don't mean a Christmas card or something, I mean something else relevant to this case.