Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #176

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The trial, against RA, hasn't started yet. We don't know the complete evidence the prosecution has against RA. However we do know, since it was said in open court before a judge, that RA has confessed to murdering Abby and Libby...to his wife and mother, not interrogators...no less than five times on recorded prison phone calls. Go figure that one!

Incredible. Seriously, if my spouse confessed something like that to me, divorce would be immediate. And no contact in place. Especially to protect their daughter.

I have SO much respect for Kathleen McLoughlin, the minute she realized that the charges against Jared Fogle were valid, (Subway Jared), she filed for divorce. And severed his parental rights.

Women I don't understand are the ones who, "Stand By Their Man", no matter what...there are many, and I don't consider them "victims" if they stay with known criminals, they are enablers at that point.
 
I wonder if the D is waiting for the contempt hearing to play out AND to see how the charges against MW go before they file for speedy trial for RA? It might really help or really kill their case depending on the MW issues especially.

what does any of that have to do with RAs guilt or innocence?
 
Incredible. Seriously, if my spouse confessed something like that to me, divorce would be immediate. And no contact in place. Especially to protect their daughter.

I have SO much respect for Kathleen McLoughlin, the minute she realized that the charges against Jared Fogle were valid, (Subway Jared), she filed for divorce. And severed his parental rights.

Women I don't understand are the ones who, "Stand By Their Man", no matter what...there are many, and I don't consider them "victims" if they stay with known criminals, they are enablers at that point.
The thing is, what about a woman who absolutely believes in her husband’s innocence? Yes, RA “confessed” but I haven’t heard it and I suspect it was under a great deal of pressure, in that he perceived his family or even he himself was in imminent danger of harm, no matter if it was real or merely perceived.

If my late husband had been arrested for murder, and I knew (or absolutely believed in my heart) there was no way he did this heinous act and he then confessed to me on the phone, I too would have hung up, because I would have immediately suspected something was very, VERY wrong, and I would want to protect him from saying more. KA is not a stupid woman. She stands by her husband because she believes he is innocent. RA has not been convicted, at least not in a court of law.

As well, if any members on this thread had a loved one falsely accused in a prison (where he/she didn’t even belong at this point in time), guarded by dubious characters, medicated with God only knows what, losing weight by the week, how would you feel? I hope none here have to experience that circumstance, helpless, unable to comfort and support that loved one. All, JMO.
ETA - If 4 defence attorneys believe him to be innocent, why shouldn’t his wife?
 
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The thing is, what about a woman who absolutely believes in her husband’s innocence? Yes, RA “confessed” but I haven’t heard it and I suspect it was under a great deal of pressure, in that he perceived his family or even he himself was in imminent danger of harm, no matter if it was real or merely perceived.

If my late husband had been arrested for murder, and I knew (or absolutely believed in my heart) there was no way he did this heinous act and he then confessed to me on the phone, I too would have hung up, because I would have immediately suspected something was very, VERY wrong, and I would want to protect him from saying more. KA is not a stupid woman. She stands by her husband because she believes he is innocent. RA has not been convicted, at least not in a court of law.

As well, if any members on this thread had a loved one falsely accused in a prison (where he/she didn’t even belong at this point in time), guarded by dubious characters, medicated with God only knows what, losing weight by the week, how would you feel? I hope none here have to experience that circumstance, helpless, unable to comfort and support that loved one. All, JMO.
Ed:gr
"Perception" seems to carry as much weight as "real" in this case.
The perceived danger, perceived bloodlust, etc is what landed him in prison.

No one knows RA better than his parents and his wife. If they stand with him, they must have reason to believe in him.
 
"Perception" seems to carry as much weight as "real" in this case.
The perceived danger, perceived bloodlust, etc is what landed him in prison.

No one knows RA better than his parents and his wife. If they stand with him, they must have reason to believe in him.
I've seen parents and spouses stand by some of the most heinous killers in history. It doesn't mean they truly believe them to be innocent, RA's wife said "He's my people", a sense of loyalty despite the evidence against them? They don't or can't fathom someone they raised or married and loved their entire lifetime could be capable of such a thing.

I think the killer's families are victims too and have sympathy for them. :(

MOO
 
The thing is, what about a woman who absolutely believes in her husband’s innocence? Yes, RA “confessed” but I haven’t heard it and I suspect it was under a great deal of pressure, in that he perceived his family or even he himself was in imminent danger of harm, no matter if it was real or merely perceived.

If my late husband had been arrested for murder, and I knew (or absolutely believed in my heart) there was no way he did this heinous act and he then confessed to me on the phone, I too would have hung up, because I would have immediately suspected something was very, VERY wrong, and I would want to protect him from saying more. KA is not a stupid woman. She stands by her husband because she believes he is innocent. RA has not been convicted, at least not in a court of law.

As well, if any members on this thread had a loved one falsely accused in a prison (where he/she didn’t even belong at this point in time), guarded by dubious characters, medicated with God only knows what, losing weight by the week, how would you feel? I hope none here have to experience that circumstance, helpless, unable to comfort and support that loved one. All, JMO.
ETA - If 4 defence attorneys believe him to be innocent, why shouldn’t his wife?
Because he confessed no less than five times? Lawyers are getting paid to "believe" him.
 
I do not understand why if Richard Allen drove the long way around to get to the Monon High Bridge trail, why he did not park at either the Mears entrance or the Delphi cemetery? He would have been able to avoid having his black 2016 Ford Focus captured on the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance camera(if he knew about it).

Maybe there is something in the confessions Richard Allen gave that only the killer would know, but as it stands right now with the evidence that has been released, I think it is going to be difficult to get twelve people to agree on his guilt or innocence. I think this might be a case where the jury cannot come to a decision.
I am thinking the exact same way on this. I've seen the prosecution's case described as "solid." That's also how I'd describe it, MOO. But there is such a constellation of evidence, little bits here, pieces there. I think a lot of it will come down to how the prosecution "connects the dots" for the jury. I do agree with people here who've noted the prosecution has set this up so they don't have to prove RA actually executed the murder. They only have to prove he was there at the scene at the pertinent time and played a role. That they can probably do, so my guess is that they'll have some success. I remember a case long ago where a man was convicted of murdering his daughter. The decision was later overturned because there were others present in the home who would have had equal opportunity to commit the murder. I think RA's defense with their many motions were kind of eyeing this same strategy for RA, as others were involved in the crime. Basically, this strategy turns things on their head for the prosecution, it's like saying this isn't pin the tail on the donkey, you have to be able to tell us exactly what role this person played in the crime. You have to rule all others out. But in the case described with the man and daughter, that murder occurred in the home, where a father would be actually living at the scene, and this was an actual murder conviction. Meaning all those being considered in that court's reasoning had equal reason for being at that home that day, and equal opportunity to commit the murder. The situation here with RA is completely different. He doesn't live on or under the bridge. It's a salient point in the first place that he happens to be there on this fateful day, at this critical time. In the end, that may be all (or at least largely all) the prosecution needs. Source: "According to the new filing, McLeland argues that the previously released investigative findings include cause that Allen kidnapped Abby and Libby by force prior to their murders near the Monon High Bridge. Due to Allen committing the act, or attempting to commit the act of kidnapping, during the alleged murder, Allen can also be charged with two counts of felony murder — where murder is committed during the act of another crime."


Prosecution seems to have covered their bases here, and I've got doubts, but still view this as "solid," MOO.
 
Because he confessed no less than five times? Lawyers are getting paid to "believe" him.
They get paid to represent him, not to believe him. They chose to do that. I freely admit, many will falsely state that their client is innocent without ever believing it. But, I strongly believe these attorneys actually do. JMHO
 
The nightmare will never end. Even post trial - even after all the appeals and everything is finally done. They’ll still be in the nightmare. Replaying their movements prior to that day and missing their loved ones. That’s for life. That’s not ever going to end. They may make peace with it but the nightmare will never end.
I somewhat agree. I lost two family members to homicide; there was a feeling of relief and closure that came when the perpetrator was finally convicted and sentenced (he was caught about 6 months after the murders but the trial was delayed repeatedly due to COVID). The grieving process and anger and shock in the aftermath of these senseless tragedies are very different for everyone. I never imagined I’d be sitting through the murder trial of two loved ones…I didn’t react or feel how thought I would through any of it. But you’re right—it never really ends. There is life before and life after.
 
I somewhat agree. I lost two family members to homicide; there was a feeling of relief and closure that came when the perpetrator was finally convicted and sentenced (he was caught about 6 months after the murders but the trial was delayed repeatedly due to COVID). The grieving process and anger and shock in the aftermath of these senseless tragedies are very different for everyone. I never imagined I’d be sitting through the murder trial of two loved ones…I didn’t react or feel how thought I would through any of it. But you’re right—it never really ends. There is life before and life after.
I’m so sorry for your loss :(. I’m sure many here have lost loved ones, but I think we all agree there is nothing that compares to the pain of losing loved ones to these senseless acts of violence. My sincere condolences.
 

He did, but did the phone necessarily have to be *his*? Could he theoretically have obtained a device from say KK or some associate at say... the Marathon Gas Station nearest the crime scene? Done the crime then handed it back to someone at some point post crime? It might be very interesting that HIS phone has no evidence to the crime scene.

The biggest most interesting thing to me is that a witness saw a "muddy" man who may have been bloody and appeared as though he'd been in a fight walking post crime - IF that was RA and he got into his car, there is (in my view) NO WAY he didn't have a transfer of evidence from the scene to the car or from the car to the scene. But yet still nothing ties him to the scene via DNA per his legal team - so IS RA the killer? Or, did he "just" abduct them? Or was he just a man at the bridge who didn't see anything?
" or did he "just" abduct them? "


Even if he 'just' abducted them, he'd still be liable for their murder. If he is connected in any way, he is spending his life on prison. IMO
 
In the October 19th in chambers meeting, R&B's statements and a filing (through DH for AB) said they were ready and had planned for Jan trial date.They've had their signed, non dated STM request since August. They weren't ready then and they still aren't ready by a mile now IMO.

Judge Gull didn't follow procedural steps for DQing the Defense I agree, but the SCOIN said JG showed a genuine concern for RA over the conduct of R&B. They unanimously found Judge Gull had no bias against RA or the Defense so she's still driving the bus.

If R&B hadn't continuously disregarded Court Orders and then leak Confidential CS Photos and Data, they wouldn't be in this situation now. This wasn't a Judge Gull time consuming mess, the Defense also avoided the correct procedural steps by going straight to the SCOIN, when it could have been held in lower trial court.

But they were ready to go to Court back in October according to them so the key elements of the case were in place supposedly right? Maybe they exaggerated a bit.

I bet we'll hear more of what really happened at the hearing. There's a reason MW wanted a trial by Judge IMO.

No, not everybody thinks R&B are super heroes or legal geniuses of any type. The breach of ethics and misconduct by the Defense in sharing Court ordered confidential, protected Discovery and then lying about it is not a nothing burger IMO. A man committed suicide during this leak of information and investigation and left behind a wife and children.

This misconduct, and others, has been done by the Defense as alleged by the Special Appointed Judge who the SCOIN unanimously refused to recuse and the States Prosecutor. I lay the blame squarely on the Defense by their own snookery and deceitful behavior throughout this entire case.

ALL JMO
THIS...All of this.

 
"Perception" seems to carry as much weight as "real" in this case.
The perceived danger, perceived bloodlust, etc is what landed him in prison.

No one knows RA better than his parents and his wife. If they stand with him, they must have reason to believe in him.
There are plenty of parents and spouses who stand by their incarcerated loved ones----that does not always mean those loved ones are innocent. Not at all. [ahem...Chris Watts family...]
 
I don’t think for one moment that the horrific distribution of photos of assaulted, murdered, naked children is a crime that should be ignored. The girls and their families were re-victimized by the defense team and their cohorts.
This needs to be addressed, <modsnip: Name changes or derogatory terms for individuals is not allowed> made the mess and now they are dealing with the consequences along with the other parties involved.
Perhaps RA would be well on his way to speedy trial right now if he had been fully informed in September that the crime scene photo leak would be keeping his defense team preoccupied. Perhaps he wouldn’t have signed that pre written letter to keep counsel.
But MW was NOT charged with anything aside theft. I would have thought that had the photos he took and distributed included photos of nude, children that this would be far more serious. Its puzzling to me that his charges seem so minor in comparison to what we're being told the crime was.
 
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I don’t disagree that it should be addressed, but was it criminal? Is there a law that says it was criminal? I’m fine with MW getting whatever once we see all the evidence at his trial. I’d just like to see Cohen get the same treatment. I don’t see that happening. Why?
I agree with you here. Its very curious to me that others who were in receipt of the photos and who *also* forwarded them have yet to be charged with any offence, even the minor theft charge faced by MW - why is this??
 
I believe it is criminal and ALL parties should be pursued for legal action. Including Cohen. The fact that Cohen is in another state may make it difficult for the state of Indiana to pursue charges. I believe we will see charges against Cohen in Texas or even federally since he distributed across state lines.
I don’t think we should set aside justice because its inconvenient to the parties that committed the crime.
I'm not from there, so I am wondering, if one needs to be arrested across state lines, is there a general time frame for this to take place?
 
Incredible. Seriously, if my spouse confessed something like that to me, divorce would be immediate. And no contact in place. Especially to protect their daughter.

I have SO much respect for Kathleen McLoughlin, the minute she realized that the charges against Jared Fogle were valid, (Subway Jared), she filed for divorce. And severed his parental rights.

Women I don't understand are the ones who, "Stand By Their Man", no matter what...there are many, and I don't consider them "victims" if they stay with known criminals, they are enablers at that point.
But RA is not yet convicted - and as far as I know, his daughter is an adult, not necessarily in need of protection in the way a minor child would be. What I do wonder, is whether RA's loved ones (mother, daughter, wife) have seen the evidence in full that the state has against RA? Not sure what they're entitled to see as his loved ones, or if he may have signed a consent to allow his legal team to speak with them - is it possible that they have seen more than we have, and have doubts as to his guilt?
 
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