Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #2

[Dr. Snoop]

We don't know he typically adheres to anything. It's just that the last meal he ate included sesame string beans. As per my last post, four ice cream cups sounds odd on paper. But if he's starving, geed up, injured and he needs something now? I don't know, for me it's not among the weirdest parts about this case

I comprehend that, from an investigative perspective, delving into the theme of nutrition may not give you definitive evidence pointing directly to someone or something significant. Nevertheless, common sense and experience suggest that exploring this aspect could be worthwhile. While discussions often revolve around choices, it's good to consider scenarios where the perpetrator might not have had a choice in his last meal.

There's also the possibility that his profile is not entirely accurate. Particularly, questions arise regarding how the police determined that he was lean. If this characterisation holds true, a vegetable-based diet could have been his norm, rendering the 4 cups of ice-cream an anomaly. On the contrary, if he wasn't lean and indulged in ice-cream due to a temporary lack of high-calorie options, one might infer that the vegetable choice wasn't voluntary. This could hint at his presence in the local vicinity, visiting, where people prepared such meals, possibly explaining the consumption of 4 cups in one go.

Another intriguing aspect is his prolonged stay in the house without attempting to flee. Could he have been waiting for transportation, like a plane or boat to another country? The choice of hat adds another layer of curiosity; a hat typically associated with an older man seems an unusual selection for a 15 year old. Did he purchase it? The deliberation behind choosing that 'old man' hat could offer insights into his mindset. May be he was older after all, like 20-25 or even older?
The purpose behind acquiring the knife also raises interesting questions.

 

[Charlot123]

I have a question, mostly, to @FacelessPodcast but in general, to everyone else.

Remembering "An English Murder", a lovely novel by Cyril Hare. Its gist being, the murders could have happened only in England, because of complex political (the House of Lords) and inheritance (peerage) laws.

This situation is the opposite. I have the feeling that the Tokyo Police, from the getgo, came to the conclusion that the Setagaya murder was "not a Japanese one".

And maybe they are right, living in Japan and having seen a lot, but I want to understand what I haven't guessed yet - what is so un-Japanese in it? The size of the shoe? Well, the murderer from Fukuyama case, Kozo Takemori, had the same size. Some people have large feet.

The brutality of the crime? Not the only one in Japan.

The fact that the perp had Asian Y that is (less frequently) but still met in Japan but more in Korea and European mitogroup? Well, in 2001 ancestral analysis was not available, and we know that both Y and mitochondria can travel far. I can't even guess what autosomal ethnic analysis will show today.

The police has left no stone unturned, it seems. They even looked at the way the knife was wrapped in the black napkin and thought, they do so in the Philippines. (If it were me, I'd think, what movie had featured this gesture?)

I would like to discuss

1) do you really view it as un-Japanese murder? If so, why?

(Notwithstanding that in the recent Japanese case solved by DNA, the perpetrator lived in the same city and was well-known in the community)

2) what else, besides the Edwards base sand, indicates, US, and military?

3) How could a Eurasian be not noticed around Setagaya in 2001? I know he would have stood out in Japan of 2001. We assume that he was easily traveling around, buying stuff, frolicking in Setagaya Park, maybe even attending Ms. Yasuko's cram classes, leading a student life, and at the same time, being totally unnoticed, so unnoticed that he'd commit a murder and no one ever noticing him? Could it be so?

4) sometimes I see a strange dichotomy. A boy from the base who could disappear, yes, but probably wouldn't roam around nor get treatment in places where Rei went to. And, @FacelessPodcast, you say, a car. Could someone be waiting for him, give him a ride?

 

[Incoherent]

Some thoughts.

Going on the theory that the age range of 15 - early 20’s and being Asian-American, I don’t think it’s farfetched to assume a young Asian-American teenager/man to be used to a diet of Asian food even if he was brought up in the USA. His mother, father, family etc, will have highly likely fed him a diet of food from their own backgrounds. Just because he may be American doesn’t mean it’s automatically burger and fries only. I don’t see any issue of the sesame and string beans being part of his diet - he is definitely Asian and was in Japan.

I also think we’re taking the wrong angle here with regards to his presence in Japan. If we go with the military family angle, it isn’t uncommon for military families to do 3+ years when moved around. If our killer was brought over to Japan at say, 15? 3 years of high school and living here is enough to get a pretty firm grasp and understanding of reading, writing, and speaking Japanese. And if that was extended beyond 3 years, it would only help our killer further blend into society and be unremarkable.

With all the discussion surrounding DNA and his genetic make up and just how far back it can go, it is possible he didn’t even look that much different from a Japanese or Korean person. And with a potential of 3+ years here, speaking Japanese well, looking like someone who lived here, it isn’t surprising he may not have stuck out at all. Just another regular high schooler, may have even been working part time too.

Towards the end of the family’s time in Japan before moving back to the USA he could have committed the murder and then flown out within the next day or two. The only thing is the hand injury, from what we know, may have been fairly noticeable.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Hello all, I follow this thread (amongst many others) daily but very rarely dare to post. But there’s something bugging me and I’m sure one of you will know the answer.

I read that the age of criminal responsibility in Japan is 14, which surprised me. Considering the attitude to privacy in Japan, would the police be able to fingerprint/DNA test under 18s or even under 14s?

@Innotts, welcome! I can't answer with absolute certainty but I can tell you what I know: prison sentences will only apply to those over 18 (or at least this is what the law was at the time of the murders). There was a spate of crimes around 2000 where under 18s committed really horrific murders (Boy A, Kobe Child Murders etc) and the controversy surrounded the fact that the culprits would spend one or two years in detention, then have their identities changed and be sent back out to the public. So, as far as I understand it, jail sentences and the death penalty can only apply to those over the age of 18 in Japan.

As for fingerprinting, I'm unsure what powers the police have but I can tell you that 1) the TMPD has more powers than any police force I know of on earth. 2) I know that An Irie's son, sleeping next door at the time of the murders and the one who heard the loud 'bang', was 13 and was immediately discounted by the Chief. So, I believe he was fingerprinted. I can also tell you that, from interviews with skaters, the way the TMPD took their prints was less than ceremonious. One was met in a Shibuya cafe, immediately fingerprinted without his consent, then shown photographs of the crime scene and grilled for the names of his skater friends.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

boarding school?

Totally possible. Happy to be corrected but I believe the number of them in Japan is low. But yeah, a definite possibility.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

About food you are right, in theory. Just because I am Slavic, doesn't mean that I prefer pierogi to chicken Tikka masala. Or any Thai food. Or even sushi.

However, the killer's food we have to discuss. First, I, too, feel that he was younger and had some developmental disorder. Even if he was older, still - from that group. Even if we assume, the son of a US serviceman, raised in the US and brought to Japan - still, the developmental issue is probably there. Now, what would one expect such a kid to eat? Food from Japanese McDonald's? Yes. Some kind of unhealthy greasy stuff? Yes. Barley tea and sesame seeds? No, and no (texture).
So let us assume that he is an American or Korean-American in Japan. Fine. I can accept this as a working version, although it already demarcates him from the other 300+ millions people. But, if so, I can bet on some neurodevelopmental condition. And how typical would it be for a neurodivergent kid to enjoy barley tea and sesame seeds? Ughm... Not really, and even less so if he came from the US. Coke and "burgers, no tomato no lettuce," yes. Ice cream, yes. A watermelon or a melon, possible. But - if he has very unusual habits, as evidenced by choosing food that 90% of neurodivergent kids hate, then, he would demand the same food on coming back home. Go to ethnic Japanese restaurants as adult. That doesn't match the profile to me.

Now, being born in Korea/Japan to a local that later moving to the US, I can believe. After Korean War, people's lives changed the strangest way. And dad being a gifted immigrant, I bet. But I suspect that the whole family stood out as extra odd, and not because of immigration, not at all.

For me, drinking barley tea and eating ice cream is proof only that 1) this is what was available and 2) this is what he chose. He ate four ice cream cups, he ate half a melon, and drank tea. We don't know what the alternatives were. What if there was nothing else in the fridge that was ready to eat immediately? What if he went for the stuff he could eat with one hand? We know, for example, that he didn't use a spoon for the ice cream and he used his hand to scoop out the melon flesh -- this would seem to support the idea that he was working one-handed. How do we know the killer has any kind of relationship with texture whatsoever? Of course, we can fill in blanks and make guesses. And I can't point to anything concrete that says he isn't neurodivergent. But nor have I seen anything concrete that says he is.

As for him eating string beans with sesame, it could well be indicative of something. Or it could simply be that he was in Japan for more than 24 hours and didn't eat at a western restaurant.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I have the feeling that the Tokyo Police, from the getgo, came to the conclusion that the Setagaya murder was "not a Japanese one".

SBM:

The TMPD have never officially mentioned anything to do with a foreigner beyond going to Korea to search for the shoes / checking with the national fingerprint database there / and looking into the possibility of a fish factory worker abroad. But nothing official. The Chief did say, upon seeing the stab wounds in Yasuko's face, that his first instinct was that the killer was not Japanese. But as far as the TMPD are concerned, they have no solid reason to believe the killer isn't Japanese. (Which I have a problem with but that's another matter). As for your questions:

1) do you really view it as un-Japanese murder? If so, why?
I think it's wholly possible the killer was Japanese. Wherever you have people, you have violence. I think the idea that some peoples are more or less violent depending on their race or culture is garbage.

2) what else, besides the Edwards base sand, indicates, US, and military?
The sand is not a small feature, it is one of the few clues that points to one specific location. But as I've said many times, added to this, there was also sand from Mabori Beach, which is the region where Yokosuka US Naval Base is located. So, that makes two American military bases, big coincidence. Factor in the killer's total disappearance, lack of aviation records, 'foreign' DNA (a simplification, I know but the fact remains, a certain Doctor M who is the only person to have looked upon the killer's DNA and spoken openly about it, give him a 1 in 4 chance of being Korean) -- combined with the fact that the killer IS NOT a Korean national. That, again, points to America. Specifically, Southern California, though of course Korean adoption was widespread throughout the US. I find it hard to accept that the Greater Los Angeles Area having the largest concentration of Koreans outside Korea and its 1-hour drive from Edwards is mere coincidence. There are also, albeit vague, markers for me: the fact he received medical attention but with no record of it anywhere in Japan. A US military base would fit this. The fact that his escape route fits nicely with a car, that, again, speaks to me of an American teen, not a Japanese one. I know, for a fact, that it was extremely common for people to own or have access to cars on Yokota. But then, beyond all this, my person of interest fits every single one of these elements, pound for pound. He may well be innocent, of course. But if he is, it merely shows that this type of man is not a chimera.

3) How could a Eurasian be not noticed around Setagaya in 2001?
Because I think he 'looked Asian'.

4) Could someone be waiting for him, give him a ride?
Absolutely. Although my gut feeling is that he acted alone. I think it's almost certain someone will be aware of his crime. But not directly complicit in its commission. But yes, he has a secret and I think it's now shared.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Not all mental conditions manifest in peculiar eating habits, but in some cases, they do, indeed. The perp had a plant-based last meal, a detail that becomes more plausible if he had been visiting someone locally and was served regional cuisine. Perhaps he had a local girlfriend who ended their relationship on that fateful day, leading to an eruption of anger or a psychotic episode as a form of revenge.

It's conceivable that, later on, he found more familiar and 'normal' food in the fridge. Therefore, I am open to considering that his dietary preferences might have varied, depending on his origin – perhaps from the US – or his diet in a military setting if he was a soldier. However, he must have had connections with someone in the local area who could provide him with vegetables with sesame seeds.

To explore this possibility, it might be worthwhile for a local newspaper to publish an article urging women who broke up with someone matching the profile in late December 2000 to come forward.

Clearly, he was carrying some kind of rage. And I think something along the lines of your idea are very plausible. But to be clear, vegetables and sesame seeds are found in any restaurant in Tokyo. You could get this stuff at a Denny's there. The fact that this stuff was in his system tells us only that he was in Tokyo and had at least one meal.

However, your idea about the break-ups is interesting. My feeling is that the killer would -at least emotionally- be found in such a bracket. As it happens, my person of interest was also...

 

[FacelessPodcast]

There have been instances, quite a few, where members of the US military have faced arrest. As an illustration, in 2016, a former US Marine employed as a civilian at a base in Okinawa was apprehended by the Okinawa Prefectural Police. He faced charges related to the murder and improper handling of the remains of Rina Shimabukuro, a 20-year-old woman in Okinawa. Despite a degree of protection and privacy surrounding military personnel, serious criminal offenses do lead to arrests and legal action.

Some important distinctions: the man who killed Rina was a civilian contractor. Moreover, they had his car on CCTV. Which leads to a name. I am not saying it's impossible for the Japanese authorities to arrest an American in the military. What I'm saying is that without a name, Yokota USAB is not going to let them come in on a fishing expedition, fingerprinting all males between 15-21. Clearly, US military personnel are afforded protections. There would be no controversy or anger in Japan surrounding this otherwise.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

There's also the possibility that his profile is not entirely accurate. Particularly, questions arise regarding how the police determined that he was lean. If this characterisation holds true, a vegetable-based diet could have been his norm, rendering the 4 cups of ice-cream an anomaly. On the contrary, if he wasn't lean and indulged in ice-cream due to a temporary lack of high-calorie options, one might infer that the vegetable choice wasn't voluntary. This could hint at his presence in the local vicinity, visiting, where people prepared such meals, possibly explaining the consumption of 4 cups in one go.

Another intriguing aspect is his prolonged stay in the house without attempting to flee. Could he have been waiting for transportation, like a plane or boat to another country? The choice of hat adds another layer of curiosity; a hat typically associated with an older man seems an unusual selection for a 15 year old. Did he purchase it? The deliberation behind choosing that 'old man' hat could offer insights into his mindset. May be he was older after all, like 20-25 or even older?
The purpose behind acquiring the knife also raises interesting questions.

SMB: they know he's lean based on the clothes he wore, his belt etc. I don't suggest that the killer's diet is irrelevant. One might well infer that the vegetables weren't voluntary, to go with your point. But one might also infer that they were. My here point is that deriving conclusions based on vegetables at midday and ice cream at midnight doesn't take us very far.

As for his long stay in the house. This is one of the most paradoxical elements to the crime, imo. I think it's very possible he was waiting for something. Waiting for the trains or the buses to start up? Possible but I would bet my life that he wasn't stupid enough to take his chances on public transport in a city of 34 million people while he was bleeding and bandaged on NYE (morning). Waiting for a plane or boat? Possible, but we know the TMPD checked all ports for their man and got zip. My guess: he was waiting for curfew to end.

I think the idea that the bucket hat is "old" is, with respect, simply wrong. But at any rate, whether the hat choice was of its time or whether it indicates an older man, I think the killer chose it for its low brim. This is almost a certainty given the fact that one of his hankies was pinched in the middle -- the TMPD think he covered his face with it.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Some thoughts.

Going on the theory that the age range of 15 - early 20’s and being Asian-American, I don’t think it’s farfetched to assume a young Asian-American teenager/man to be used to a diet of Asian food even if he was brought up in the USA. His mother, father, family etc, will have highly likely fed him a diet of food from their own backgrounds. Just because he may be American doesn’t mean it’s automatically burger and fries only. I don’t see any issue of the sesame and string beans being part of his diet - he is definitely Asian and was in Japan.

I also think we’re taking the wrong angle here with regards to his presence in Japan. If we go with the military family angle, it isn’t uncommon for military families to do 3+ years when moved around. If our killer was brought over to Japan at say, 15? 3 years of high school and living here is enough to get a pretty firm grasp and understanding of reading, writing, and speaking Japanese. And if that was extended beyond 3 years, it would only help our killer further blend into society and be unremarkable.

With all the discussion surrounding DNA and his genetic make up and just how far back it can go, it is possible he didn’t even look that much different from a Japanese or Korean person. And with a potential of 3+ years here, speaking Japanese well, looking like someone who lived here, it isn’t surprising he may not have stuck out at all. Just another regular high schooler, may have even been working part time too.

Towards the end of the family’s time in Japan before moving back to the USA he could have committed the murder and then flown out within the next day or two. The only thing is the hand injury, from what we know, may have been fairly noticeable.

I agree and just to add, my POI fits up with everything on this list.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Waiting for the trains or the buses to start up? Possible but I would bet my life that he wasn't stupid enough to take his chances on public transport in a city of 34 million people while he was bleeding and bandaged on NYE (morning).

RSBM

If he was as young as he appears to have been, I'd be quite surprised if he made any contingency plans for the possibility of injuring himself. If he arrived in the area by public transport, he may not have felt he had any choice other than to return by public transport. Hide his wounds the best he could and keep his head down.

 

[Incoherent]

I agree and just to add, my POI fits up with everything on this list.

Could I ask if you have someone particular in mind, or just a profile that fits this?
To me it makes the most sense too.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

RSBM

If he was as young as he appears to have been, I'd be quite surprised if he made any contingency plans for the possibility of injuring himself. If he arrived in the area by public transport, he may not have felt he had any choice other than to return by public transport. Hide his wounds the best he could and keep his head down.

I agree, he won't have factored in injury / the loss of blood to his plan. My assumption is, he leaves the same way he arrives. Not one person in Tokyo sees the distinctive Faceless Man with that outfit? Not one person sees him the next morning on NYE with the injured hand? Not one camera picks him up? My feeling is he drives away which explains it. But if not, he walks away and slips into the vastness of Tokyo.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Could I ask if you have someone particular in mind, or just a profile that fits this?
To me it makes the most sense too.

I have someone specific in mind.

 

[Incoherent]

I have someone specific in mind.

Exciting, Nic, not gonna lie. Looking forward to if and when you can release that info.

I agree, he won't have factored in injury / the loss of blood to his plan. My assumption is, he leaves the same way he arrives. Not one person in Tokyo sees the distinctive Faceless Man with that outfit? Not one person sees him the next morning on NYE with the injured hand? Not one camera picks him up? My feeling is he drives away which explains it. But if not, he walks away and slips into the vastness of Tokyo.

If he escaped via car, I can believe no one saw him. The trouble is where to park. In Kamisoshigaya someone would have noticed his car if it was outside of a car park but whether they thought anything beyond that I don’t know. Car parks have CCTV also. If he didn’t, and he left the scene in any other way, someone saw him. Someone, somewhere, saw him.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Exciting, Nic, not gonna lie. Looking forward to if and when you can release that info.

If he escaped via car, I can believe no one saw him. The trouble is where to park. In Kamisoshigaya someone would have noticed his car if it was outside of a car park but whether they thought anything beyond that I don’t know. Car parks have CCTV also. If he didn’t, and he left the scene in any other way, someone saw him. Someone, somewhere, saw him.

Absolutely someone saw him at some point. RE: parking, we know that Mikio apparently had a go at folks parking too close to the house. And Yasuko complained of one particular car, apparently, parking too close to them in the days before the murders. This has never been ruled out, so far as I can see. Having been to that area many times, I'm not sure where they would be parking. My best guess would be the small field in front of the house. The earliest I was at the house was 2010. But it must have been close if Yasuko and Mikio are both noticing.

As for the POI, I just need a podcast platform to bite, give me the money, and I can investigate!

 

[Dr. Snoop]

Police have renewed their appeal for any information from the public that might help solve the murders of a family of four in the house in Tokyo's Setagaya Ward 23 years ago.

Despite extensive detective work focusing on the killer's clothing, accessories, weapons, and other circumstantial evidence such as the sand found on the clothing that the killer abandoned at the scene, police have not identified any suspects.

Following the murders, police deduced that the clothes, including a sweater, and knife left at the scene had been bought in Kanagawa Prefecture. Three kinds of powdered fluorescent dye were found on the trainers and bag left at the scene. In the pocket of the sweater, which had only gone on sale two months before the killings took place, traces of bird dropping, Japanese zelkova tree and willow leaves were found.

 

[Incoherent]

Absolutely someone saw him at some point. RE: parking, we know that Mikio apparently had a go at folks parking too close to the house. And Yasuko complained of one particular car, apparently, parking too close to them in the days before the murders. This has never been ruled out, so far as I can see. Having been to that area many times, I'm not sure where they would be parking. My best guess would be the small field in front of the house. The earliest I was at the house was 2010. But it must have been close if Yasuko and Mikio are both noticing.

As for the POI, I just need a podcast platform to bite, give me the money, and I can investigate!

The strip in front of their house would be my guess. Maybe not directly in front, but on that strip. People here have a tendency to really dislike “rule breakers”, and someone parking so close to their house would definitely rub Mikio and Yasuko the wrong way especially if they’ve been having trouble with people in the surroundings and loud noises etc. It wouldn’t make sense why the car doesn’t just go to a quick car park a few minutes away. They’d be unhappy about that.
As for that strip being used for parking the same night of the murders for the getaway, I’m not sure… a car starting up and driving away so close to the other houses at the earliest 1:20am, after sitting there for a good few hours already? The risk of it being noticed is so high. I can’t really think where it would be.

Re: the podcast platform, glad to help in any way if possible and to contact with a review about Faceless as I’m sure most folk here would too if it helps get the next step going.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I agree, he won't have factored in injury / the loss of blood to his plan. My assumption is, he leaves the same way he arrives. Not one person in Tokyo sees the distinctive Faceless Man with that outfit? Not one person sees him the next morning on NYE with the injured hand? Not one camera picks him up? My feeling is he drives away which explains it. But if not, he walks away and slips into the vastness of Tokyo.

Was his outfit really so distinctive? I don't know what the fashion trends were in Japan (and specifically Tokyo) in 2000, but elsewhere things like bucket hats were very fashionable at that time. He may not have stood out much at all.

If he really wasn't caught on any CCTV (rather than not being identifiable on the comparatively poor quality video of the time) then that would probably mean he didn't travel on public transport. But what if he hid a bag containing other clothes, and changed into a totally different outfit somewhere on his route? I know there's no evidence for that, but it would mean everyone (including the TMPD) was looking for entirely the wrong thing.