Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

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Emma Peel said:
More ex parte comms, copied to all parties.
This one appears to be a plea for cameras in the courtroom.

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You gotta love the “salt of the earth” citizens of Indiana that stand up for not only their personal rights but the rights of those that have been charged with a crime. Innocent or guilty, everyone deserves a fair and unbiased trial.

Kudos MG for speaking your mind!
 
katydid23 said:
Here is why I think this argument by the defense is unfair.They say:

RA “from getting a fair and equatable treatment in court” when compared to the resources and expertise the prosecution are to afford and thus access and utilize.


They make it sound like the DA is paying all of their witnesses 25k and spending thousands of dollars on lab tests and digital reports. The thing is the State is utilising State funded employees, like FBI agents and County Coroners , etc etc.

The resources they have are provided to the District Attorneys as a way to protect our communities by investigating and potentially indicting suspected criminals.

You cannot compare those resources and assets to that of a small defense team. Are we expected to fund EVERY public defenders case file to the SAME EXTENT that the local DA's office is funded? That is impossible.

For the defense to ask the court to DENY the admissibility of the recorded confessions and the bullet left behind and other KEY EVIDENCE because the defense does not feel prepared enough is preposterous. IMO
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I understand your perspective in that from rereading the memo I do now think that despite being a small team the defense can still obtain the expert opinions they seek without the barrier of needing equal funding or access as the prosecution. I wonder if it is because they work for private law firms they are just adjusting to the limited funds available to them. I used to work for a private defense firm and sometimes I have to recall how things require a change in perspective or approach.

In the memo it was stated that Gull did approve of reimbursement for the ballistics and psychologist experts to a certain extent. I falsely misread that she rejected each proposal listed. I wonder if the reason she said no to the forensic pathologists, confessions and fingerprint experts is because she is aware that there are more localized personnel or experts that are available and who will consult with the defense team for me. For example, other than the FBI, would Paul Holes, the GBI, Chicago PD, NYPD or the professors of the forensics and criminology departments near those facilities, like those at John Jay, be willing to offer their input without the extra cost? There are local Vinlanders groups in Kingston, ID. Perhaps there is a journalist or researcher there, like one for the SPLC, who could offer some more insight into both Odinism and the group? It may require adjustment and filling out the correct legal permissive paperwork but IIRC the GBI testifying in case in another tragic murder case in TN because of the consultation they were able to offer so perhaps it is possible and would still be effective in terms of providing counsel.

www.splcenter.org

Vinlanders Social Club

The Vinlanders Social Club was formed in 2003 by a handful of former members and associates of a rogue racist skinhead group, the Outlaw Hammerskins. Publicly the Vinlanders appeared to be a coalition of independent state skinhead crews, but in reality the group functioned as a single entity.
www.splcenter.org www.splcenter.org
 
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DeDee said:
May I request a link only if it's easily available because the .png images are gone and unavailable for me.
Who's asking for cameras, this time?
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if anyone can screenshot for DeDee?
I'm out for the night... but I can get to it tomorrow if no one has.

... also it's just an email to Gull from an Indiana citizen, request for cameras for trial, with a little flourish and "advice" for the Judge and what's good for Indiana here.
 
DeDee said:
Remember when we were told BG didn't have blue eyes? IIRC- it was Sgt Riley who told us, in the beginning, BG didn't have blue eyes and the witness was close enough to know this.

Without being heavily critical of LE, if the public had not been told the guy on the bridge didn't have blue eyes, then someone might have tipped RA sooner, but that's just a guess. IDK. Whichever witness made that statement about the eye color is sure to be called to the stand if not by the state, then by the D. What is EF's eye color? IDK.
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Those evil looking eyes look they could be grayish to me. I wouldn't definitely have not described them as blue either.

I think the young witnesses will be super impactful just like Libby videoing the murderer of Abby and herself. It would be a huge mistake for the Defense to go after them. IMO

Is EF a POI now? I'm confused I've never seen a picture of him in MSM.

\MOO
 
layer said:
Therefore, it is now known that the video files on Delphi Drive 1 Export are interviews from the dates of 02-25-2017 through 04-07-2017 without audio, as audio files were not recovered, while the video files were recovered.

Could there be lip readers in the budget?
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The dvr drive kept running until it was discovered as such. Think of the missing investigative work and recordings this could potentially involve. It irks me. That is eight (8) weeks worth of potential evidence gone bye bye. After the discovery, did the Investigative Team in Delphi compose notes of the data that was essentially erased during this time period?

A standard 1 terabyte (TB) hard drive can hold approximately 1,000 gigabytes (GB) of data1. To break it down further, a gigabyte is roughly 1 billion bytes1. So, if we consider the decimal conversion, a 1 terabyte hard drive can store around 1,000,000,000,000 bytes.
 
Jade said:
Proves RA is just another guy no special badness for him it’s for everyone.

Seems to me the Defense hung their hat on conniving CO’s and their dastardly conduct completing the framing of the pathetic CVS worker for the murders.

If they don’t have that RA is suffering from targeted maltreatment by conspiring young girl murdering Odin COs and scared to slobber then what have they got?


imo
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They've got nothing, they've known they've have nothing from the point of the Discovery. That's when all the craziness hit the fan, RA's and R&B's.

moo
 
girlhasnoname said:
Those evil looking eyes look they could be grayish to me. I wouldn't definitely have not described them as blue either.
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I agree, except for the "evil looking" part. I have never been able to see evil in people's eyes. To me, things like age and height are far more easily picked-up identifying physical characteristics than eye color. In fact, I can't tell you right now what color RA's eyes are and I just posted a picture of him a few minutes ago.
 
AppleTreeGreen said:
True, I read the State’s response, and the COs could very well be telling the truth.

According to the ACLU, IDOCwatch.org, IndyStar and Itsgoingdown.org, there are also testimonies, lawsuits and cases centered around former and present inmates who have also alleged to have suffered abuse and neglect at Wabash and Westville prisons that have been denied or rejected, including through legal/court-mandated paperwork in response by the administration and officers at these prisons.

I am not picking a side but I thought it was important to note that.


sfbayview.com

Torment in Indiana prisons: The abuse, the lawsuit, the death of Phillip Littler

This horror story is unique to Phillip Littler – but not. Kevin ‘Rashid Johnson has told the story again and again, and as a revered artist, he lays bare these atrocities in drawings, exquisite in the pain they reveal, imploring us to listen, feel and act to abolish the existing evil culture...
sfbayview.com sfbayview.com

www.indystar.com

Jailers 'brutalized' a dying man in an Indiana jail. A prosecutor says it wasn't a crime.

An Indiana prosecutor did not pursue criminal charges, but experts who reviewed a jail video say they observed sadistic and criminal behavior.
www.indystar.com

www.aclu.org

ACLU of Indiana, Indiana Protection and Advocacy Services Win U.S. District Court Decision Regarding Inhumane Treatment of Prisoners | American Civil Liberties Union

www.aclu.org

www.idocwatch.org

Horrifying Conditions of Confinement at Westville CF — IDOC Watch

Please listen to the interview below with two people currently incarcerated at Westville CF, in which they describe the horrifying conditions of confinement that they and everyone else incarcerated there are being subjected to. One of the main issues they discuss is the water contamination, which is
www.idocwatch.org www.idocwatch.org


www.southbendtribune.com

He warned Indiana prison officials he would kill a cellmate. And then he did.

Prison mental health care carries its own challenges
www.southbendtribune.com

itsgoingdown.org

Support Wabash Valley Prisoners on Hunger Strike!

Several inmates at Wabash Valley Correctional Facility have announced that they have begun a hunger strike to protest their deteriorating conditions. Their immediate demands include: removal from camera monitored cells, relocation from abusive staff, and the cessation of tampering with food and...
itsgoingdown.org itsgoingdown.org

www.aclu.org

ACLU of Indiana files Jail Overcrowding Lawsuit Against Wabash County | American Civil Liberties Union

www.aclu.org
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Again, same can be said of any jail or prison across America not just the State of Indiana. Probably the ones in your state and I know it's the same of mine.

MOO
 
girlhasnoname said:
Those evil looking eyes look they could be grayish to me. I wouldn't definitely have not described them as blue either.

I think the young witnesses will be super impactful just like Libby videoing the murderer of Abby and herself. It would be a huge mistake for the Defense to go after them. IMO
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I did not suggest for the D to "go after" a witness nor would I. However, the witness who made the statement would simply be telling her truth.
girlhasnoname said:
Is EF a POI now? I'm confused I've never seen a picture of him in MSM.

\MOO
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Can the Defense Memo not be discussed? Can the testimony from the last hearing not be discussed? IDK. I miss a lot.
 
DeDee said:
The dvr drive kept running until it was discovered as such. Think of the missing investigative work and recordings this could potentially involve. It irks me. That is eight (8) weeks worth of potential evidence gone bye bye. After the discovery, did the Investigative Team in Delphi compose notes of the data that was essentially erased during this time period?

A standard 1 terabyte (TB) hard drive can hold approximately 1,000 gigabytes (GB) of data1. To break it down further, a gigabyte is roughly 1 billion bytes1. So, if we consider the decimal conversion, a 1 terabyte hard drive can store around 1,000,000,000,000 bytes.
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I tried to dig into that but came up empty. I was curious as to how long it would take for a 6 terabyte hard drive to run a full cycle if it wasn't recording anything.

I need to go back and read that whole bit again.
 
<modsnip: quoted post was removed> I am constantly hearing about the wisdom and experience of the defense team. Between them, I have learned, they have like 120 years of experience. And yet, all that experience did not help them avoid a document leak which yes, was at the expense of two 8th grade murder victims. Again, anyone can make a mistake, but that is quite a mistake. And on occasion, the same parties that demand we kiss the rings of the learned and experienced defense has had no issues with launching attacks on the integrity of the judge, "denied, denied, denied," bias, etc. She also has a great deal of experience and wisdom, but when it suits the D, there's no restraint in terms of those attacks. I don't really think "experience" is the core issue here behind some of the statements being made. Everyone should want RA to get a fair trial. But this D has got to do that within reasonable parameters and respect the rights of the state as well. A gag order, if one is in place-- that is part of the D's job to respect that gag order. I believe they said when that order was placed that it wasn't "necessary," there was "no need" for it.

Guess there was. Yes, I see bungling by the P, but it's nothing like what I've seen from this set of defense attorneys, and I wish for RA's sake the other set of attorneys had remained for the duration of his defense. While 70 days of interviews from the early stages of the investigation have been erased in error, I'm just seeing courtrooms packed with YouTubers summoned by the D so they can scuffle in the courtroom. Right, it's a spectacle, it's difficult to ignore. MOO, that defense team is doing their client no favors. Trial can't come fast enough. And yes, I sincerely do hope RA gets a fair trial, and I am still not certain personally he's BG. All MOO.
 
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Emma Peel said:
Short answer for TLDR:
On original video, I expect that Abby or part of Abby is probably in front of BG ... her image removed. Don't know how far ahead of BG Abby would be ... this is a mystery. I hope LE's experts will be able to provide good estimates of many things about BG. We'll find out at trial, likely.

I thought I'd include a bit longer explanation ... optional read, if you will:

For me these things are of curious interest BUT, I've come to understand that analyzing BG video/photo is an exercise in analyzing altered/over-manipulated enlarged pixels.

The sources of the altered material worked with LE to crop the BG image out of the original video and reassemble it on the bridge. The purpose of the images was to provide the public a reference for the BG figure - to encourage tips - about this figure (and their clothing/stature, possibly). LE has provided clothing description: blue jacket, blue jeans, hoodie hood out of jacket. Indeed, BG is the individual that appears on the bridge, captured on Libby's video moments before LE believes the abduction occurred and the "down-the-hill" can be heard on the video.

At one time these images were accompanied with height estimates for the BG figure as being 5'8 to 5'11 ... and over time the images were accompanied by two very different composites based on eye-witness accounts. Later, audio editors lifted sound, attempted to enhance, and those results were also provided to the public: "down-the-hill" and later, "guys". ISP still has the info on the girl's page:

Delphi Homicide Investigation

Youtubers with editing skills have continued to further play with, crop, enlarge, manipulate these pixels ... in an effort to support a variety of sleuther hypothesis. Well enough, but I've moved on.

(I agree that Gray's work has been helpful in giving the world a much better feel for the lay of the land and the movement and BG?/ RA? sightings of the eyewitnesses mentioned in the PCA. But that's a different contribution than further editing the BG pixels.)

Because the image has obviously been clipped, and placed back on a blurred out bridge surface with blurred background ... I tend to think the original will have one of the girls (likely Abby) in the frame, with the BG figure somewhat blocking the BG image in the background.

I landed here quite some time ago: There's a reason LE have shared the 43 second video with very few. And there's a reason they have manipulated the original image to this degree. The why of all that, I think, we will learn at trial.

BTW, to my knowledge, none of the"RA eye-witnesses" from the PCA described a hat.
Yet, one composite figure wears a hat, facial hair. Years later, another composite figure has neither hat nor facial hair. I certainly can't say if the BG figure even wears a hat, or has facial hair. But I've also I've never felt that was important. The BG image is - obviously - not a definitive ID tool on its own.

JMHO
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Regarding Abby's position: From what I understand, the edited part is the few frames with a black crop coming a small fraction of the frame to the left. This could be part of Abby coming into the frame. If part of her would cover a large lateral portion of the frame, so quickly, my guess would be that Abby was very close to the phone's camera (so that only part of her figure would actually come into the frame, ie part of her arm or torso).

One might wonder why they didn't just crop the BG frame even tighter. I don't think that Libby herself zoomed all the way (digitally) with her camera, as there has also been quite extensive stabilization made by LE. (Which would require more pixels outside of the crop seen in the clip).
 
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DeDee said:
The dvr drive kept running until it was discovered as such. Think of the missing investigative work and recordings this could potentially involve. It irks me. That is eight (8) weeks worth of potential evidence gone bye bye. After the discovery, did the Investigative Team in Delphi compose notes of the data that was essentially erased during this time period?

A standard 1 terabyte (TB) hard drive can hold approximately 1,000 gigabytes (GB) of data1. To break it down further, a gigabyte is roughly 1 billion bytes1. So, if we consider the decimal conversion, a 1 terabyte hard drive can store around 1,000,000,000,000 bytes.
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The sloppyness is beyond comprehension.
 
girlhasnoname said:
Thanks for the info STG. Funny thing is how the Defense claims to have no money for the top 3 items in Defense of their client:
<RSBBM>

The defense claims that they have not received any help in funding to obtaining expert assistance to investigate three pieces of evidence within the trial: the bullet found at the crime scene, the digital data collected by law enforcement and Allen’s alleged confession.

Wouldn't you think these would have been the main focus of their case early on? The bullet found at the scene that matches the ejector marks on RA's gun which has never been out of his possession by his own admission.

Digital data - the Defense keeps crying there is no digital data tying RA to the murders, and last, but certainly not least:

The 5, yes 5, confessions of the Defendant Allen himself admitting he murdered Abby & Libby to his wife and mother. We don't know who else he might have made these incriminating statements to but I anticipate more now that the medical records have been made available to the State.

Yet the D (and their appellate lawyers) stood there and made assertions that they were ready absolutely ready to go to trial in Jan during the October meetings and SCOIN reviews. LOL

Of course they could have talked to other experts who weren't giving them the answers they're looking for. The ones telling you what you want to hear tend to be much pricier. CW better stay busy pushing that $$$ request.

MOO
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You make a very compelling point about digital data. Great catch!

IIRC, the FM stated no digital evidence tied RA to the crime scene. Yet here we are, defense needing an expert to address digital evidence.

This could be key evidence at trial.
 
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