Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

[layer]

Click has a theory of the case, but actually no evidence that connects his suspects to the crime.

So you've looked at the evidence?

 

[mrjitty]

So you've looked at the evidence?

Well unless there was some evidence he decided not to mention in his testimony and the defence decided not to include in the Franks?

 

[mrjitty]

Citations in documents by the state would be sufficient, but from what I have read their case is alarmingly weak. For example, when were these alleged confessions? Why are they not cited anywhere official that I’m aware of (the media doesn’t count, I mean official documents). I would like to know the date of the calls, the time duration of the calls, and ultimately if I was a juror I want to hear the calls-as we all know the calls are recorded, so there should be a recording unless the prison has a similar sloppy method of record keeping as CC. Until I see or hear something official (I.e. in official docs), it’s not fact to me. Personally I believe there were multiple perps.

IIRC both Rozzi and NMcl referred to them in the safekeeping hearing last year. Then the defence sought money for a confessions expert (see the motion for parity). So they have been raised in official court proceedings.

They will be played at trial unless the defence can get them excluded pre-trial.

I think it is fairly safe to say they exist. Someone else may have the links to it.

02c

 

[Pyrite]

I think it is fair to say he has given 2 different times.

Is it? As someone who knows more law then I do, do you think the lost for 5 years, misfiled note (without a recording) from the LE who RA talked to back in 2017will be allowed into evidence at the trial or is the chain of custody to broken? I’m assuming that is when he said he was on the bridge between 1:30 and 3:30.

‘Clerical error’ may have led police to overlook Richard Allen in Delphi case

DELPHI, Ind. – Why now? That’s one of the biggest questions surrounding the arrest of Richard Allen, who’s charged with murdering Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017. It appears a “cler…

fox59.com

 

[mrjitty]

Is it? As someone who knows more law then I do, do you think the lost for 5 years, misfiled note (without a recording) from the LE who RA talked to back in 2017will be allowed into evidence at the trial or is the chain of custody to broken? I’m assuming that is when he said he was on the bridge between 1:30 and 3:30.

‘Clerical error’ may have led police to overlook Richard Allen in Delphi case

DELPHI, Ind. – Why now? That’s one of the biggest questions surrounding the arrest of Richard Allen, who’s charged with murdering Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017. It appears a “cler…

fox59.com

This is where it is going to matter a great deal what he said in his police interview, and the testimony of the officer who took the tip, and all that background you refer to.

The defence will obviously dispute accuracy (they already did in Franks)

The prosecution will point to verifiable detail in the tip (the girls he saw, his IMEI number, the specifics of what he was doing etc). e.g. if the IMEI is correct, is there any reason to think the time is wrong? Especially if cross checked against the 3 girls?

I think one powerful argument here is the tip sheet itself is the contemporaneous record and thus more reliable than what the accused says years later.

But sure, they will dispute it. As to whether they try to exclude it, I don't know.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The P gets the mental health records.

04/03/2024

Order Issued State of Indiana's Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records (mental health records) filed March 14, 2024 granted without hearing. State of Indiana's Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records (medical records) filed March 14, 2024, granted without hearing. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

 

[layer]

I think one powerful argument here is the tip sheet itself is the contemporaneous record and thus more reliable than what the accused says years later.

Just for clarity...
When you say "tip sheet" are you referring to whatever report DD made when the initial contact with RA happened in 2017?

 

[Jade]

I've said it in the past, but I would hate to find myself in a similar situation.

I am incredibly nearsighted and I've slipped and shattered an ankle. As a result, when I walk, I pay attention to the ground--where I am stepping. I am completely oblivious to people around me. I also like to keep to myself when I go out on walks and am fairly shy. I could easily see myself in a situation like this, especially because I have the worst luck (read: shattered ankle )

If you were to find yourself in a similar situation and you had tipped in you were on the bridge wearing BG clothes but completely innocent when your picture was still being broadcast around the country with appeals to identity would you walk across the street from work to the Sheriff’s with your attorney and get it straightened out?

Would you go on ahead and confess multiple times to the pervert murder of two girls to those who love you, your wife and Mother, while you are being detained as a suspect?

Do you scare young girls by aggressively approaching them as they are in a vulnerable position on a very high bridge with no railing to the point they video you out of fear?

You don’t seem at all like a grump if anything you’re vulnerable by being distracted.

RA wasn’t oblivious, as you say you are, he had a disagreeable air to the girls on the trail and A & L were scared of him on sight.
<modsnip>

IMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Maybe you would have 'wanted' to scream. But many crime victims will tell you that at the key moment when they needed and wanted to scream, for some unknown reason, they could not make a scream happen. It is like you are frozen.

It is a common experience of violent crime victims, imo.

True. I can attest to it.

 

[Schatz]

So what did EF bring to the Vinlander table (or whatever name we want to call this group)? The transcript shows the associations of at least 5 men. These guys he associated with were not some kind of a do-gooder social club. IMO not people who would feel sorry for poor slow EF and just want to give him a leg up.
Read the Click testimony.

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

Who among the Vinlander associates (not necessarily those named heretofore) might take note of EF's desire to belong and use that desire to pull off a baffling crime that went unsolved for at least 5 years (perhaps still remains so, IMO)? EF is a full grown man, regardless of the status of his mental capacity (read: intimidating to teen girls).

I've scaled back on participating because we are just running in circles. Maybe it was RA. I still will be shocked if so unless it was a periphery involvement. Based on what we know about the crime scene, IMO someone wanted to at least implicate the Vinlanders, and that wouldn't happen without premeditation. Perhpas someone had a beef with them and roped EF into making this happen. I don't know. It's all so weird.

The fact that Click's involvement with the investigation ended the day that Ferency was killed outside FBI office in Terre Haute (and that he explicitly stated that his involvement ended on that date in testimony) - I don't know what, exactly, that means. What happened to that Joint Task Force? I wonder if the FBI decided after the ambush that it better only use FBI agents while investigating this and closed ranks.

I am glad the trial is slated to start soon. I do wish it would be televised so we could all watch with our own eyes. I've read most of the transcripts for this case and will do so for the trial, but wow that will be a LOT of reading, and one can't get tone and body language from text.

 

[AugustWest]

Yet he denied seeing the girls which knowing the fact makes it highly suspicious. They are on his path he had to have seen them and so why deny that.

Are we meant to believe he was blind or hid in a bush until they walked past him?

The good news is no jury will believe something like this as an excuse if the defense try and play this game as that duck won’t hunt imo.

Who did you walk past at 3:30 pm on that date in 2017?

People simply don't remember every detail of their lives, or recall all that they saw/did/said, etc....

He put himself there, so that really isn't in dispute.

 

[layer]

If you were to find yourself in a similar situation and you had tipped in you were on the bridge wearing BG clothes but completely innocent when your picture was still being broadcast around the country with appeals to identity would you walk across the street from work to the Sheriff’s with your attorney and get it straightened out?

If it was me, I'd figure LE had cleared me and carried on to trying to find the killer.
If, as you suggest, RA was such an obvious suspect after making the tip, why didn't detectives walk across the street from the Sheriff’s with the district attorney and get it straightened out?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

What are the odds the Defense step down as by the looks it and the mess they have created they won’t be ready for trial?!

if they care for RA as much they claim their best bet at this juncture is to step down and give it to more capable lawyers.

IMO

They certainly proved at the 3/18 hearings that they are not top notch lawyers despite the adoration they have received.
However I think they themselves believe the hype. They sit around on camp stools inside the giant hole they have dug for themselves believing they have built a magnificent palace.
Their egos are tremendous.
They certainly won’t step down for RA’s sake. They do not seem to care a rip about him.

 

[Emma Peel]

This is where it is going to matter a great deal what he said in his police interview, and the testimony of the officer who took the tip, and all that background you refer to.

The defence will obviously dispute accuracy (they already did in Franks)

The prosecution will point to verifiable detail in the tip (the girls he saw, his IMEI number, the specifics of what he was doing etc). e.g. if the IMEI is correct, is there any reason to think the time is wrong? Especially if cross checked against the 3 girls?

I think one powerful argument here is the tip sheet itself is the contemporaneous record and thus more reliable than what the accused says years later.

But sure, they will dispute it. As to whether they try to exclude it, I don't know.

Seems to me RA's phone records (geotraking etc) could provide the contemporaneous record that will confirm his time at the trails. IMO. We'll see at trial.

The suggestion (pure conjecture) that RA's phone was not with him that day - is specious, much like the RA = Bridge Guy true crime social media legend. RA/stock-ticker - he states to LE he had his phone with him, shared his memory of the use of his phone in his interview(s). If we believe RA's report that he was on the 1st platform, if we believe his jacket color, etc.. why do we not believe he had his phone on and working w/ him at the trials as he's reported?

BG photo/video/audio are all highly edited/ manipulated tips-encouragement tools. Again, we'll see at trial that manufactured/manipulated photos, video, and audio will not be used as evidence at trial.

The jury will be shown the actual video/audio from Libby's phone ... or nothing.

JMHO

 

[Schatz]

They certainly won’t step down for RA’s sake. They do not seem to care a rip about him.

Snipped for focus - Unless they are RIGHT. Lebrato seemed convined after a brief stint as his lawyer. Yes, I know he walked his statement back to "presumption of innocence" the next day, but probably because he got tsk tsked. Maybe this is all just a big circus. (Peru IS, after all, the circus capital of the US.) But if it's NOT and there IS an actual conspiracy afoot, I applaud these lawyers for doing everything they can to shed light on it. I live in Indiana, and none of this would surprise me one whit.

 

[Jade]

If it was me, I'd figure LE had cleared me and carried on to trying to find the killer.
If, as you suggest, RA was such an obvious suspect after making the tip, why didn't detectives walk across the street from the Sheriff’s with the district attorney and get it straightened out?

Cleared while still broadcasting your picture and asking who it is even after you told the CO it was you in those clothes?

That's how you get arrested as a suspect!

Apparently only one clueless CO and RA knew about the tip.

That's why they kept up the campaign to identify BG.

I did not suggest RA was a known suspect at all or they would have walked across and arrested him!

When the admission tip was identified and it was obvious RA was arrested as a suspect in the murders.

all imo

 

[AugustWest]

Snipped for focus - Unless they are RIGHT. Lebrato seemed convined after a brief stint as his lawyer. Yes, I know he walked his statement back to "presumption of innocence" the next day, but probably because he got tsk tsked. Maybe this is all just a big circus. (Peru IS, after all, the circus capital of the US.) But if it's NOT and there IS an actual conspiracy afoot, I applaud these lawyers for doing everything they can to shed light on it. I live in Indiana, and none of this would surprise me one whit.

They give a rip about him. One to the tune of $50 grand and counting out-of-his-own-pocket care.

I'm with you @Schatz, I'm ready for the trial. The wheels are now spinning in the mud. Time to hear what each side actually has. No more "maybe this" or "maybe that."

 

[StarryStarryNight]

At the trial, we will hear both sides, cross examination of witnesses, and expert witnesses. I look forward to it.
There are 40 days until trial.

 

[Salah11]

Do you have links for either? IIRC, he said he was on the bridge, but not at the time the victims were. And no witness has Identified RA as bridge guy, as far as we know.

It’s in the documents that were released the timeline.

You can argue over times all you want but we shall see at the trail who saw what.

I am limited to the articles that will open for me being in the EU.

Richard Allen Probable Cause Affidavit: Delphi Murders Document

See the criminal complaint probable cause affidavit and charging document against Richard Allen in the Delphi murders.

heavy.com

He was standing on the first platform of the Monon High Bridge, the witness told police. She then saw the two victims walking toward the bridge

This also stands out to me from one witness

“He was walking with a purpose and kept his head down.”

Then another girl said

He had his hands in his pockets

Then we look at the guy crossing the bridge who
is doing that exact same walk/pose across the bridge.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

The fact that Click's involvement with the investigation ended the day that Ferency was killed outside FBI office in Terre Haute (and that he explicitly stated that his involvement ended on that date in testimony) - I don't know what, exactly, that means. What happened to that Joint Task Force? I wonder if the FBI decided after the ambush that it better only use FBI agents while investigating this and closed ranks.

I am glad the trial is slated to start soon. I do wish it would be televised so we could all watch with our own eyes. I've read most of the transcripts for this case and will do so for the trial, but wow that will be a LOT of reading, and one can't get tone and body language from text.

RSBM/bbm
I also found it interesting to that Click seemed continue to reference this. IMO it doesn’t make sense and seems coached to appear there was some sort of conspiracy. I believe the transcript indicates that Click retired on December 31st 2021 and Ferency was killed in an unrelated crime on July 7th 2021 while he was serving on the FBI’s joint terrorism task force.
Not related. So why the end of his investigative work on Delphi?
What we know about the fatal shooting of Terre Haute detective Greg Ferency

I also found it interesting that TC thought it best to reach out to an attorney friend/prosecutor with his concerns instead of one of his LE connections. I notice he didn’t name this attorney/prosecutor by name during his testimony.
Lastly, the end of April his attorney friend advised him to write a certified letter to the prosecutor. Who knew Click would be the influencer of all the letter writing trend we see now on this case ?
Lastly, I find it odd that TC, a former LE investigator got involved with a defense team and their investigator.
TC was involved a year after the murders of Abby and Libby and left a year before the arrest of RA.

IMO him wanting to reinsert himself into the investigation when he clearly has no access to the evidence against RA seems very odd and ego driven.
It seems to me IMO that he was sought out by defense team and he will look back at his testimony with regret. His scope is too narrow and none of it actually excludes RA from the crime.
AJMO

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf