GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

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nodamselindistress said:
I just don't understand how IS was stabbed before NM was pushed into the water? You see frame after frame of the video with him with the knife in his right hand, left hand on the tip, with Rhyley in his face with her phone up and Maddie right next to her. You see each girl put their hands on him and he pushes Maddie away and she screams and Dante comes up immediately and lays him out in the water. You do not see Isaac anywhere in these frames?
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IS was stabbed last. MOO
 
turaj said:
I was watching Lawyer You Know recapping the verdict. He posed a theory that I had not considered but since he is a practicing defense attorney it seems reasonable. He thinks at first there was a majority for first degree intentional but some not in agreement but they were okay with the first degree reckless ...easier to move down than. up. They got the verdict fairly quickly what about 6 hours give or take?
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That is pretty much the outcome I expected. Hardliners wanted him to have some accountability for killing an unarmed 17 year old. Waivers, probably agreed, to go with lesser charge. If anyone had really wanted to stick to their guns, it would have been a mistrial.
 
KSwizzle said:
People are way more unhinged nowadays, especially after covid. It sucks. I tell my kid, you have to be careful about any situation you go into you never know who is just going to fly off the handle don't assume.
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Gosh, isn't that the truth?!? I just took my dog out for a peaceful walk and a brand new neighbor's dog came charging at us after we passed their house (garage door was open) and we were already one house over. I screamed out of fear when I heard/saw the dog (I'm a 65 year old female) and put myself between the two dogs. I panicked and yelled to no one in sight "Come and get your dog" and the owner (size of Miu) came out and yelled "RELAX!" at me in a very demeaning way. I've never seen the dog before and there were no apologies from him ~ no "I'm sorry", "my bad", so I ended up yelling at him, not nicely, WELCOME TO THE (EFFING - but used the whole word) NEIGHBORHOOD!" My racing heart didn't come down for about 20 minutes. Made me think of Miu in an odd sort of way ~ the fight or flight syndrome is no joke!
 
My sympathies Carly!

Used to take my dog to the dog park where it is mostly older retired people with their dogs. For the most part, the dogs got along. The people? Not so much! There was an 80-something guy who full on decked another 70-something guy over something he said.

Danger everywhere!
 
I was satisfied by the verdict. People have a right to self-defense, but it has to be proportionate to the threat. He used a lethal weapon, but I didn't see any lethal threat against him. You don't get to kill somebody just because you feel some fear. And the way he acted after the incident shows he knew he committed a crime. moo
 
CuriousCarly said:
Gosh, isn't that the truth?!? I just took my dog out for a peaceful walk and a brand new neighbor's dog came charging at us after we passed their house (garage door was open) and we were already one house over. I screamed out of fear when I heard/saw the dog (I'm a 65 year old female) and put myself between the two dogs. I panicked and yelled to no one in sight "Come and get your dog" and the owner (size of Miu) came out and yelled "RELAX!" at me in a very demeaning way. I've never seen the dog before and there were no apologies from him ~ no "I'm sorry", "my bad", so I ended up yelling at him, not nicely, WELCOME TO THE (EFFING - but used the whole word) NEIGHBORHOOD!" My racing heart didn't come down for about 20 minutes. Made me think of Miu in an odd sort of way ~ the fight or flight syndrome is no joke!
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Dog owners letting their dogs off leash in public is a huge pet peeve of mine, especially when I'm walking mine. I don't care if you insist your dog is "friendly," I don't know you or your dog, and you can never be sure about a dog's behavior. And too many people seem to think any park is a free space for their dogs. At dog parks fine, but not regular ones.

/rant
 
Prosecutor: Shenna L (Carlson group/Shenna was in a relationship w/Quentin at the time) testified that Isaac’s group were yelling for help.
Both Madison & Ryhley M went over to help.
She saw NM punch Madison in the face
She then saw Dante punch NM twice (NM went under the water the 1st time he came back up. Dante punched NM one more time) and it looked like NM was punching them back, but he was actually stabbing them.

NM hit Ryhley, Dante, Tony, AJ
Ryhley did not hit anyone, she started running.

NM left straight back toward the woods.
Shenna is sure she saw NM hit Madison, and told LE.


Defense cross: NM held the tubes and would not let them go.
Madison met NM at the tube.
Shenna would not describe as Madison getting in NM’s personal space.
Madison came straight toward Shenna holding her face.
Shenna saw LE take photos of Madison’s face.
Shenna unsure if NM used his right or left hand to punch Madison’s face.
Shenna saw NM punch/stab AJ Martin (she did not see AJ push NM back into the water)
Shenna did not see the interaction between Isaac and NM.
Shenna did see the interaction between Dante and NM.

 
I wonder about something, silly perhaps but: I read here that NM and wife got divorced right after the incident took place, and that it was for financial reasons, ex wife stated she still loves him. Would that have influenced the jury ? As in, they took it to mean that NM knew he was going to be found guilty/liable in a civic suit, so he knew he was wrong/guilty about his actions that day? Or do the two (civil and this criminal case) not compare at all? I don't know enough about the CJ system, sorry!
 
This case had so many ups and downs that I need to get my jumbled thoughts about it off my chest.

When this case first happened back in 2022 I thought he was a crazed lunatic and thought he went on a stabbing rampage.

Then the trial started and I saw the video for the first time and I was swayed for a bit and bought into the old man surrounded/self-defense narrative. His legal team was in his corner and fought like hell for him and did him justice.

At the end of the day I have to believe the jury saw evidence that led them to believe he could have and should have walked away and there was no reason to stab and attack people like he did.

I have to be at peace that there were adult men on that jury that looked at the scenario and knew they would have handled it very differently. Cooler heads would have prevailed.

I also have engineer types in my circle and they are very stubborn and like other posters said often think they are the smartest ones in the room.

I think his biggest mistakes were the way he handled the situation after the fact, hiding of the knife, what he said to police...he should have kept his mouth shut and asked for a lawyer asap. Even a good legal strategy could not account for his actions that day. It just did not add up in the end.

I also think he got on the stand against his lawyer's advice and he did not come off likable at all.

Lastly, the way his friends and wife testified about the situation made me think that he was warned by them NOT to engage so something just does not add up and it does seem like he was looking to instigate. There was a lot of character type stuff omitted about him that leaves me wondering what he was like day-to-day.

Either way I am at peace with the jury's decision, he got his fair day in court and they deemed that he acted recklessly. I am interested to see if he has funds to appeal the ruling. I suspect he will, but I think he is going to be in prison for a long time.
 
Marfe said:
I wonder about something, silly perhaps but: I read here that NM and wife got divorced right after the incident took place, and that it was for financial reasons, ex wife stated she still loves him. Would that have influenced the jury ? As in, they took it to mean that NM knew he was going to be found guilty/liable in a civic suit, so he knew he was wrong/guilty about his actions that day? Or do the two (civil and this criminal case) not compare at all? I don't know enough about the CJ system, sorry!
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I too dont know enough about the court system, but wanted to say a few things.

Glad to see you posting!

I dont have any answers for you (perhaps someone else here may), however, NM never showed any emotion, sympathy or empathy toward anyone, but his animal. Didn't see any emotion toward ex-wife while she testified, their divorce recently last March. No emotion toward Isaac's mom when she took the stand. During the verdict, he was motionless, as if he expected a guilty verdict.

Maybe I missed something but that is how I saw it. My thoughts.
 
Dre said:
I try to empathize with NM but just can’t, how many times did people scream “get away” “go away” “get out of here”
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It's scary to me that so many people believe it was someone else's fault that Miu became violent- he shouldn't have been told "no"!

This is why women are afraid of turning men down, they also get blamed when the man retaliates with violence. As if his actions are her fault, and it's her job to "let him down easy" like a horse-whisperer or something.

I wonder how Mrs. Miu would feel if a stranger grabbed her legs and started moving her around in her tube, or prevented her flow down the river. Would Mr. Miu forgive those actions towards his wife, the same actions he did to others?
 
TTF14 said:
Sad about this verdict. Sad for NM.

I wish the drunk child mob could get some kind of punishment for starting it all! <modsnip - unnecessary> (IMO)
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Right? If nobody complained about Miu's behavior, he could have just continued standing in front of people's tubes and preventing others from flowing down the river.
How dare they tell him to stop!
 
housewife said:
Right? If nobody complained about Miu's behavior, he could have just continued standing in front of people's tubes and preventing others from flowing down the river.
How dare they tell him to stop!
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Ok, so you agree... it started because he was IN THEIR WAY. Not looking for little girls.. just in their way.

So next time you walk thru a grocery store and you accidently block their cart with yours in an aisle... and they start yelling at you and videotaping you... calling you a thief, or child molester, and their friends all start too, will you just stand there? Or will you respond? Or would you run away? I wouldn't run. Running to me would mean everyone in that store hearing that would think i'm guilty for taking and running away and not standing up for myself, right?

When is enough? When are people going to stop lying for attention? When will people be held accountable for their own actions? Or are we just supposed to now believe EVERYTHING people shout? I see TONS of KIDS being pulled over for traffic tickets that use the "your hurting me, I can't breathe' defense before the cop even touches them. Its astounding to me what we as a nation have 'learned' in the last 5+ years on how to blame everyone else instead of taking responsibility.
 
Kakidoll said:
Ok, so you agree... it started because he was IN THEIR WAY. Not looking for little girls.. just in their way.

So next time you walk thru a grocery store and you accidently block their cart with yours in an aisle... and they start yelling at you and videotaping you... calling you a thief, or child molester, and their friends all start too, will you just stand there? Or will you respond? Or would you run away? I wouldn't run. Running to me would mean everyone in that store hearing that would think i'm guilty for taking and running away and not standing up for myself, right?

When is enough? When are people going to stop lying for attention? When will people be held accountable for their own actions? Or are we just supposed to now believe EVERYTHING people shout? I see TONS of KIDS being pulled over for traffic tickets that use the "your hurting me, I can't breathe' defense before the cop even touches them. Its astounding to me what we as a nation have 'learned' in the last 5+ years on how to blame everyone else instead of taking responsibility.
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BBM, I wouldn't stab anyone that's for sure.

And I think an example would be if he was in a grocery store tying is shoes for an elongated time with girls skirts at eye level. Reasonable people would question what is going on.

NM is now being held accountable for his actions, correct.
 
IDK said:
If only the mob had allowed NM to look for the camera/ phone in peace, and not heckled and taunted him.

You don’t get to attack and slander someone just because they look and sound different than you. All my opinion.
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They didn't know what he was doing or that he was looking for anything. They asked, but he remained silent. moo
 
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