Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

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layer said:
Gotcha! I think...
So the defense is arguing that RA remembers the discussion/interview/tip differently than what is noted in the DD/RA narrative in the PCA? Involving a different range of times (earlier)?
Click to expand...

I wonder if one of our attorney's could kick in on the topic of admissibility of tips and police investigative notes. IIRC this is an exception to hearsay where police (and others) can't be expected to remember exact details from years ago - but contemporaneous notes can be used to refresh your memory on the stand. As so many years have passed, a contemporaneous note is likely the best evidence of what was said, and not what DD and RA might remember.

Rule 803

5) Recorded Recollection. A record that:

(A) is on a matter the witness once knew about but now cannot recall well enough to testify fully and accurately;
(B) was made or adopted by the witness when the matter was fresh in the witness’s memory; and
(C) accurately reflects the witness’s knowledge.

www.law.cornell.edu

Rule 803. Exceptions to the Rule Against Hearsay

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu
 
Cyber sleuth said:
1:27 pm a vehicle resembling his 2016 Ford Focus was caught heading west on CR300 north by the camera at Hoosier Harvestore. This coincides with RA’s statement to DD that he arrived and parked at 130pm and was in the trails until 330pm

Actually apply the brakes here. Military time was used in this narrative 1330-1530.
Let me process this.


He also did not state that he parked East of the Hoosier Harvestore at the cemetery or at the trail head at Mears Farm but instead west of the Hoosier Harvestore and entering at Freedom Bridge which he is West of the camera.
Per the PCA that I have below. He parked at the “Old Farm Bureau” building which is believed to be the now demolished Family Services building.

He was spotted by several witnesses on the trial and then recorded by the victims at 2:13pm abducting them at gunpoint.
He wasn’t seen again until 3:57pm as he walked back to his car (westward) like he had gotten into a fight.
Click to expand...
Ok I apologize I got my west and east backwards, I thought west was heading out of Delphi (drivers lane would be on the side of the trails and cemetery) but it seems to be the opposite.
 
Caylee Advocate said:
Military time is also used by "most" LE, so I can't see how that is considered more damning. Plenty of persons who are, or have served in the military still can't shake using it. MOO
Click to expand...
It seems to me whether RA spoke in military or DD recorded what RA told either was done because it "reduce confusion and misinterpretation of time." DD recorded the time precisely, either way.

I think the timeline is going to be one of the truly damning evidence against RA, JMO

"Many other organizations use military time, including hospitals, law enforcement, and airports. Each of these organizations uses military time primarily to reduce confusion and misinterpretation of time."

study.com

Military Time | Definition, Format & Use - Lesson | Study.com

What is military time? Learn about how to tell military time, how it compares to standard time, how to write military time, and why military time...
study.com study.com
 
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What's most damaging about DD's tip narrative, IMO, is if it's authenticity can be shown, it was recorded early enough that there can be no suggestion that law enforcement are trying to lie or fit the defendant up AND it is corroborated by external witnesses/evidence.

IMO the defence is almost reduced to claiming it was fabricated - because otherwise that time is likely to hit hard with the jury.
 
Niner said:
They use military time here in Europe, so I did not find it strange IF the LE put the time as 13:30-15:30, but IF RA used it?? I am STILL getting use to using military time! LOL!
Click to expand...

Thank you as I am just catching up and I’m failing to see the big deal in RA using military time as we use it in the UK a fair bit. I don’t see the weirdness in using it.

And this is coming from somebody who thinks RA is guilty.
 
I don’t think I’m up to scratch on this case - as so many of you clearly are - but I can’t quite decide if I really think RA could be the lone actor here - especially with ppl like KK in the mix.

I don’t think he has what it takes. These girls were smart and brave - it’s hard to accept the lone RA scenario.

It is just horrific.
 
snarast said:
I don’t think I’m up to scratch on this case - as so many of you clearly are - but I can’t quite decide if I really think RA could be the lone actor here - especially with ppl like KK in the mix.

I don’t think he has what it takes. These girls were smart and brave - it’s hard to accept the lone RA scenario.

It is just horrific.
Click to expand...


They were but unfortunately the man had a gun and they were basically kids. Even most adults would freeze in such a scenario.


Moo
 
Cyber sleuth said:
Oh I know my question is Did RA use military time in his statement to DD??

Just me pondering. As it was not used at all throughout the PCA and it’s only used in the narrative between RA and DD.

Just noticed it and it kind has me aghast I didn’t notice it before.
RA spent 10 years in National Guard as we have established. If he used this terminology with DD then it’s more damning.
JMo
Click to expand...
RBBM for focus
Actually, military time was used in the PCA by LE.
They used it when they stated the time vehicles passed the HHS cam.
LIggett used it when he noted the executed time of the search warrant
Harper used it on the property records and receipts

This is not a debate as to RA's possible usage of military time.
I've only posted it to show LE also used it in the PCA.
 
A lot of us had been wondering when Judge Gull would make her Contempt filings known. In Part 2 of the documents linked here it is stated that DH wanted a week for a recap submission of the Hearing due by March 25th, the State due by April 1, and Judge Gull said she would have a ruling within 30 days.

3.18.24 Contempt - Google Drive
 
Megnut said:
A simple thought -- was the search organized in any way? Did LE give instructions?

I've never been involved in a search for missing persons, but I can imagine an instruction like this, "if you see anything, do not touch or move it. Take a photo and alert LE".

That could explain why civilians might have taken crime scene photos.
Click to expand...
I think if there are photos of clothing in the creek, this is likely why. I recall seeing other searches being posted about and instructions were to take a photo and mark something that looks like a clue/evidence, but don't touch it. I am going to guess on this, but I highly doubt that would extend to taking photos of a body. Obviously that would not be possible evidence, that is what they were looking for. So clothing is one thing.. could or could not belong to the girls, but if anyone found one of them, I doubt they were told to photograph them. I think the clothing in the creek was just a clue someone may have photographed, not because they wanted to have crime scene photos because at that point no body had been found so there was no crime scene, it was just possible evidence. My opinion, but I don't think it was any searchers that took photos of the girls and leaked them. I think we know exactly where those photos came from.
 
layer said:
Schatz, you just blew my mind.
Are you thinking that some of the leaked photos showing bodies may have been taken - not by LE - but by the actual killer(s)?
Oy, I'm up way past my bed time
Click to expand...
That’s exactly what I wonder. We will likely never know. If the perp(s) had recording equipment, what was the end goal of recording? Where did those recordings/photos end up? How many people had access to whatever was produced at the crime scene?
 
Volume 1 Page 91, the State Investigator spoke with AB. When asked about MW he said he was a friend. When asked if he has shared any documents related to the Delphi case with him, AB said he provided to or that MW stopped by his office to get the Memo in support of Franks to him a day or 2 before it was sent out. MW never had to sneak in anywhere to get his information on the case from AB IMO.

AB did not provide a copy or text of signed NDA by MW.

3.18.24 Contempt - Google Drive
 
justtrish said:
I think if there are photos of clothing in the creek, this is likely why. I recall seeing other searches being posted about and instructions were to take a photo and mark something that looks like a clue/evidence, but don't touch it. I am going to guess on this, but I highly doubt that would extend to taking photos of a body. Obviously that would not be possible evidence, that is what they were looking for. So clothing is one thing.. could or could not belong to the girls, but if anyone found one of them, I doubt they were told to photograph them. I think the clothing in the creek was just a clue someone may have photographed, not because they wanted to have crime scene photos because at that point no body had been found so there was no crime scene, it was just possible evidence. My opinion, but I don't think it was any searchers that took photos of the girls and leaked them. I think we know exactly where those photos came from.
Click to expand...
Yes, the contempt docs said clothing articles and text messages, not pictures of the girls.

MOO
 
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