Seeking Key Info 6/10-6/14 for New Leads

I have not been able to get past the 14th for a long time now.

In going back I noticed that CA told B. Hemmer or Greta V. that the last time KC saw
Kaylee was on the 14th ! Where did this come from- the 9th to the 16th, and now the 14th?
 
I wonder about the duration of a chloformed sleep? Did she use other drugs like Benedryl to induce a sound prolonged sleep?? Did she figure out she could get Caylee to sleep for 8 to 12 hours at a time? "Babysitter in a bottle?" If Casey induced sleep while Caylee was in the car, she could put her in the trunk by folding down the backseat (that model Sunbird has fold down backseats open to trunk area). Casey could then climb into the front seat and exit car normally. No one would be the wiser of what would have happened in that car!! Casey could then return to her car, enter the driver's seat, close the door, climb over into the backseat, fold down the backseat, retrieve a groggy or sleeping Caylee, upright the backseat again, and the deed is done. I'm not sure Caylee would even know where she slept. Both Caylee and Casey were small, so I think she could maneuver this action. Remember one side of the backseat had the carseat so being small made this action easy to do.

What I'm saying is I think "Zanny" was this car trick she was doing. Remember when Casey got up in the middle of the night to bring Caylee home? The boyfriend thought that was odd because when he woke up and Caylee was gone. Casey said Cindy had called in the middle of the night
so she brought Caylee home. I think Casey just wanted Caylee out of that bed for other reasons.
 
That's interesting since it mentions that June 9th date again--I wonder why Casey holds this date as significant? I've always wondered why Cindy never elaborated about what the circumstances were when she had Caylee visit her father on Father's Day--did Casey bring Caylee back home, was Caylee with the Grandparents alone, or some other scenerio? Cindy also stated she had last seen Caylee on June 9th--before she corrected herself with the Father's Day date. Somehow that June 9th date must mean something.

I to have been wondering the same thing. The only thing that I question is the visit on Father's Day, where was Caylee after that and with who? If Casey had a place to put Caylee while she was out doing her thing the Pings from June 15th should show where she was after the visit or did Cindy hide Caylee somewhere? I have wondered that to since she is just as crazy as Casey, could this be something that they both had a part in, maybe something happen to Caylee when Cindy went crazy on Casey June 15th. They have Casey's pings but not Cindy's, I really wish there was a way to get those, maybe if she is charged with tampering with an investigation it will show where all three were on June 15th.
Maybe the date of June 9th was a place that Cindy and Casey were at and that is where Caylee is now, it could be why they all used that date because they know what happen and are just trying to buy time?
 
Another poster :blowkiss: provided me w/ the dates Lee provided #Bay fdbk suggesting possible window of his absence. Not perfect...but a start. He provided fdbk 6/12 & 6/21. There's a span to work w/ that would have him outta town on Father's Day (e.g. why no visit w/ George mentioned).

Also the MySpace msg from Casey re: Windy City on 6/23. Coley dug up some info supporting Lee would've had a reason to be in Chicago around this date as well as some of the dates above.

Need some help narrowing these down. Anyone familiar w/ his MySpace/Facebook have anything that helps?

Anyone?
 
We know that AH totaled her car on 6/6. We know that this car was not drivable and that AH's dad was coming to get it for repairs the first weekend in July. On 6/14, AH has the car towed to TL's parking lot, possibly somewhere near the bottom left of apartment #210 at Sutton Place. If AH's car was originally towed to JPC's or somewhere near there, this would have given KC a place to drug and store Caylee, while she was sleeping at RM's without Caylee. Remember the place KC pointed out to LE that was across from JPC's? Maybe they left the car there, or parked on the street, until it was towed on the 14th. From that day forward, KC was at TL's apartment and had full access to the car. On 6/19 KC texts AH "Call me when you're headed over to see your car". AH later texts back "On my way". KC wanted to know when she would be near this car so she could remove evidence and/ or Caylee while AH was checking on her car. Remember KC and AH only exchanged text messages from 6/10 to 6/30 and did not see each other face to face. KC had a key that belonged to AH that LA found and "took care of". I think this was the key to AH's totaled car and I think KC kept Caylee drugged in this car, placed her remains there and dumped the evidence and/or Caylee from the car prior to the end of June.
 

I to have been wondering the same thing. The only thing that I question is the visit on Father's Day, where was Caylee after that and with who? If Casey had a place to put Caylee while she was out doing her thing the Pings from June 15th should show where she was after the visit or did Cindy hide Caylee somewhere? I have wondered that to since she is just as crazy as Casey, could this be something that they both had a part in, maybe something happen to Caylee when Cindy went crazy on Casey June 15th. They have Casey's pings but not Cindy's, I really wish there was a way to get those, maybe if she is charged with tampering with an investigation it will show where all three were on June 15th.
Maybe the date of June 9th was a place that Cindy and Casey were at and that is where Caylee is now, it could be why they all used that date because they know what happen and are just trying to buy time?

Personally, other than to establish premeditation, I use the 15th as the start of my Caylee deceased timeline because she was documented thru 3 sources (video/CA mom & CA) as being alive. The night of 15th, CA confronted KC about the $354., all hell broke loose, she took off. The story of her spending the nite at home, CA getting up not opening the door to check on them, the texts to/from AL, which pinged near their home...GA getting up but not realizing they were there...

Anyone ever heard or have a child that slept in that late and was quiet as a mouse? When my kids were her age, my kids would start clamoring for cereal or potty or something. Thats mighty fishy, IMO
 
What I'm saying is I think "Zanny" was this car trick she was doing. Remember when Casey got up in the middle of the night to bring Caylee home? The boyfriend thought that was odd because when he woke up and Caylee was gone. Casey said Cindy had called in the middle of the night
so she brought Caylee home. I think Casey just wanted Caylee out of that bed for other reasons.


ITA! Remember the conversation about the best sex KC had with RM one night and the morning after as well? Wonder if this is the night Caylee went home in the middle of the night or after that?
 

Sorry Bond, I have nothing to offer here. Unfortunatly I think there has been very little focus on Lee here at WS, except for wondering where he's been. Maybe that's what we're missing. I'll look around and see what I can come up with.
 
We know that AH totaled her car on 6/6. We know that this car was not drivable and that AH's dad was coming to get it for repairs the first weekend in July. On 6/14, AH has the car towed to TL's parking lot, possibly somewhere near the bottom left of apartment #210 at Sutton Place. If AH's car was originally towed to JPC's or somewhere near there, this would have given KC a place to drug and store Caylee, while she was sleeping at RM's without Caylee. Remember the place KC pointed out to LE that was across from JPC's? Maybe they left the car there, or parked on the street, until it was towed on the 14th. From that day forward, KC was at TL's apartment and had full access to the car. On 6/19 KC texts AH "Call me when you're headed over to see your car". AH later texts back "On my way". KC wanted to know when she would be near this car so she could remove evidence and/ or Caylee while AH was checking on her car. Remember KC and AH only exchanged text messages from 6/10 to 6/30 and did not see each other face to face. KC had a key that belonged to AH that LA found and "took care of". I think this was the key to AH's totaled car and I think KC kept Caylee drugged in this car, placed her remains there and dumped the evidence and/or Caylee from the car prior to the end of June.

This makes A LOT of sense. It's a perfect solution for a mother like KC who seems so completely self-absorbed - she can just leave her daughter in a wrecked car in a parking lot for days. She knew no one would be coming for it.
 
I realized this is out of your timeline, but in going over that timeline, I just have to ask a question.

On June 23rd, KC sent a message to Lee: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=361&day=2008-6-23&c=4

From Casey to Lee:
Jun 23, 2008 12:40 AM
here's my question...
is 'the windy city' an appropriate nickname for chicago? is it really THAT windy?
i've always wondered.
It's been said all along that KC talked code with Lee. Going with that thinking, is it possible that in this particular message, that KC is trying to tell Lee that a person by thy name of "Wendy" is who he should be talking to?

I've searched all thru the threads, and may have missed something, but is there anybody in KC's circle that we know of, named Wendy? We know KC knows all caps = yelling, so is she yelling the name Wendy out to Lee, instead of really referencing "the windy city"?
 
Here's a focused look @ Tony's statement to LE & Amy's storyline w/ some suggested dates inserted in [ ]. While Tony's statement certainly isn't intended to be a perfect day-by-day accounting, it appears to me to line up reasonably well w/ Casey
(1) first laying the groundwork the week of 6/10, for murdering Cindy and framing George, and,
(2) a change in story to cover Caylee's demise 6/16 with the invention of Caylee being @ the nanny's to explain her being MIA, and reneging on having Amy move into G&C's.

Note: Casey telling Amy the G&C divorcing and Casey taking-over G&C’s house story was also laying the same groundwork for off’ing Cindy & framing George. It seems incredibly rare for Casey to tell the SAME story to both groups of friends. Casey reneged on this story to Amy 6/16 telling her the deal was off (also evidenced by Amy texting Casey she was going Tue 6/17 to fill out a change of address card to stop her things from going to G&C’s.) since Caylee died. With Caylee gone, Casey HAD to eliminate Amy from any move-in scenario. Amy was going to babysit Caylee in the new arrangement…changing that story was a top priority!

From Tony interview transcript (confusing because he talks about Casey's unprovoked cover-stories in the first paragraph...then goes back to talk about when it started):

Mom [Casey] has been…this is ah, the other thing. She’s been telling ah, me that..’cause she would go like, like without even me asking telling me out of just the blue just telling me just like, oh Caylee’s going to be with the nanny and they’re going to Disney. And I remember asking about it the next day I’m like, oh, what’s Caylee doing?

Like this happened like when she first started moving. You know what I’m saying? When this first happened when she first went…I guess grabbed most of her clothes [6/10] . And came back. And I’ll get into that a little…why she did that in a second [*account below] . But, um, basically she told me that she went to Disney [6/10] and then I told, that’s the next day [6/11] and she was like, yeah she gonna be at Disney , she’s going to Disney again [6/11 or 6/12] . I guess she got, they got a weekend pass [6/14-15] or something like that. And then I remember her telling me also, I remember I don’t (inaudible)…Next weekend [6/21-22] or the weekend after that [6/28-29] she said that they were going Cocoa Beach. And then she kept on saying that oh they stayed an extra day. And they’re gonna stay another day. I’m like, this became a thing like, oh..I was a little you know questioning, feel weird about that. But she would say that she talked to Caylee or she was going to visit Caylee. All the time. So, I mean…

Note: Tony travels to New York 6/30 – 7/5

Q: So, um, would she, would she like how often would you see her? Would you see her everyday or would you be..

A: Yes she pretty much shacked up here.

Q: Okay. So, when she said she was going to visit you’re in, you’re in class?

[Full Sail schedule discussionl]

Q: Right. Okay so what were you gonna tell me about her getting all

A: * Oh, oh the thing why she started staying here [6/10] I guess. Ah, she said this is what she told me. Her parents her parents are having some kind of huge dispute like. Um, she was telling me about how she hates her father. And how her father was cheating and has been cheating on her mom. And like her mom, ah, always is like I guess is not listening to what Casey’s saying to her. I guess to leave him. And this whole big dispute. And her reasoning for the whole thing of her being here and Caylee being @ the nanny’s is the fact that she didn’t want Caylee to be in the house while that was happening. And she couldn’t deal with it. And she used to tell me that she talked to her mom about how her mom’s glad that I’m here for Casey because she wouldn’t be able to go through what’s going on between the two parents if I wasn’t around and all this stuff….

Tony's account (albeit hard to read Tony-ese) ties very cleanly with Casey having creating a NEW, THIRD person/location to explain Caylee's whereabouts tied specifically first, to the week of 6/10 to set the stage, then, adapting it 6/16 to deal with Caylee’s death. Tony is adamant about the story being given exactly corresponding w/ Casey's move-in w/ her stuff [6/9], and later [post-6/15] Casey's insistence that she even tell him unprovoked, where Caylee was staying. I'm amazed that he gives the account of subsequent weekends, quite frankly. I also noted that "the beach" weekend agrees w/ the story Casey gave to Jesse G for Caylee's whereabouts on that same 6/28 weekend.

In the Casey-Tony relationship the NEW, THIRD person/location begat "nanny", nanny begat "zanny", and zanny begat ZFG.

Casey's care arrangements for Caylee 6/10-6/14 have yet to be determined. Casey had some method & location for "caring" for Caylee during the nighttime on those dates, which Caylee survived through until at least her sighting on 6/15. Initially gave alot of treatement to the Oviedo house as a potential for this service. More recently I'm strongly considering the potential that Casey used Lee’s house while he was outta town.

If Caylee was still alive on 6/16, why did Casey create the story of the new, third-party person/location w/ Tony on 6/16? If Casey's Caylee-Care was working 6/10-6/14, why change? Its quite simple. ON 6/16 CASEY REALIZED THAT SHE COULD NO LONGER PRODUCE CAYLEE PHYSICALLY TO EITHER G&C OR HER FRIENDS. CASEY REALIZED SHE NEEDED A THIRD-PARTY SHE COULD USE AS THE ALIBI TO TELL BOTH GROUPS - G&C AND CASEY'S FRIENDS. Whichever group Casey was with would always be told Caylee was with the nanny, and since the nanny didn't exist Casey didn't hafta worry about the two groups talking.

Casey could've played it cool and continued telling Tony that Caylee was w/ G&C for awhile. She could've played that out longer. She slipped.
 
I realized this is out of your timeline, but in going over that timeline, I just have to ask a question.

I've searched all thru the threads, and may have missed something
*snipped*

Please ck the "Lee" thread, Curious Mom. Appears Lee was in Chicago on business w/ his company & Bears parking deal, 6/23. Speculate that Casey was using his place and ran outta gas 6/23 per Tony's statement that she was in a nearby subdivision. Specific to this thread, I'm suggesting Casey was using Lee's place 6/10-6/14 also, and Lee may have been outta town during this period as well.
 
Hi Bond,

You have this just about pinned down. I wasn't thinking of KC setting up the parents, but it does look that way. I agree that Caylee was either at Lee's or the Oviedo house when KC was referring to the Nanny between 6/9 and 6/14. If Lee gets the referrance about Chicago that is a problem. He then had to be helping her after the fact. What was the name of the road that the TES team found the shallow grave and rope and pipe, do you recall? I know it was off Orlando road or street.
 
Another poster :blowkiss: provided me w/ the dates Lee provided #Bay fdbk suggesting possible window of his absence. Not perfect...but a start. He provided fdbk 6/12 & 6/21. There's a span to work w/ that would have him outta town on Father's Day (e.g. why no visit w/ George mentioned).

Also the MySpace msg from Casey re: Windy City on 6/23. Coley dug up some info supporting Lee would've had a reason to be in Chicago around this date as well as some of the dates above.

Need some help narrowing these down. Anyone familiar w/ his MySpace/Facebook have anything that helps?


Please if anyone can tell us anything about Lee and Chicago or anything for the timeline 6/15-7/14...I would really appreciate it. I have compiled some very, very important stuff regarding this and need a few more things that I can not find. Hopefully if someone can get anything else, I can then let everyone know the stuff I have uncovered.

Thanks Bond!
 
Hi Bond,

You have this just about pinned down. I wasn't thinking of KC setting up the parents, but it does look that way. I agree that Caylee was either at Lee's or the Oviedo house when KC was referring to the Nanny between 6/9 and 6/14. If Lee gets the referrance about Chicago that is a problem. He then had to be helping her after the fact. What was the name of the road that the TES team found the shallow grave and rope and pipe, do you recall? I know it was off Orlando road or street.

the reports filed about the suspicious rope and pipe/ this occurred on suburban dr/ suburban dr deadends into the woods by the school/ the school where kio said that her and jessica and casey spent many a day hanging out to get away from their parents.
 
the reports filed about the suspicious rope and pipe/ this occurred on suburban dr/ suburban dr deadends into the woods by the school/ the school where kio said that her and jessica and casey spent many a day hanging out to get away from their parents.

Thank you! I went searching though the docs and gave up:mad:

Do we know if this is a site that LE feels Caylee could have been placed, or is it just a hunch? What I am asking was there anything to tie this to Caylee or KC? If so, this poor child has been moved at least 3 to 4 times. When was this done if she was in jail, or on house arrest? Le would have been keeping close tabs on EVERYONE.
 

You're the best, Georgia PI. :blowkiss:

IIRC, there was some evidence in the communication 'tween Casey & Tony that they were prolly havin' a bit of a spat during this week, 'cause Casey brought Tony to Troy's bday party w/ Ricardo being there too, and she (and Caylee) spent their last night @ Ricardo's 6/9.

I believe I have the OCR'd data for pre-6/14 from TexasLil, but, I haven't inserted it into the filtered spreadsheet in order to analyze it yet. Now it looks like I can't avoid that any longer :bang: I need to see who she's communicating with & from where to make sense outta this week. :waitasec:
 
Thank you! I went searching though the docs and gave up:mad:

Do we know if this is a site that LE feels Caylee could have been placed, or is it just a hunch? What I am asking was there anything to tie this to Caylee or KC? If so, this poor child has been moved at least 3 to 4 times. When was this done if she was in jail, or on house arrest? Le would have been keeping close tabs on EVERYONE.

LE walked around w/ Kio in the early stages of the case. The date of that walk is recorded in the first doc release (400pgs) but I don't have them at my fingertips. Soooo...IF Kio walked LE through this area early on and nothing was noted, then later, a clandestine grave is spotted in the same area...at least LE has a shot at connecting it to the case. That may support why the report surfaced in the recent release. The report of the find certainly isn't in there for no reason :) ...and as you indicated...LE is watching.
 

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