Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

Which Listed Below Did Caylee Die From?


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I don't recall LE clearing that particular area with cadaver dogs, do you have a link to that? TIA.

It's the sixth video down. A video from the GVS show.

So how did this one time bounty hunter “know” what eluded search parties for months? We know from Fox Noise’s own video that area was not under water when Kronk called, he saw something white under the bag that made him call, so how was it EVERYONE else involved in the search screwed up? Tim Miller’s Texas EquuSearch is famous for its recovery searches and they, every one of them, missed it. Why didn’t the smell of a decomposing body, attract the cadaver dogs in previous searches? The body was not buried; it was in plain site if Klonk is to be believed and less then ten feet from the road. So what happened to the highly trained cadaver dogs to miss the remains during previous extensive searches?

They mention, in the video, that the body may have recently been moved there. IIRC, LE said the body had been there for some time which is how I formed my theory. :cow:
 
I think fluids would be leaking from a variety of orifices.

Yes, you are right, and I read probably more than I should have about that last night before I made my post.:sick: Writing about this, too, I find myself having to forcefully prevent myself from thinking about the victim...wonder if that is what a medical examiner goes through on a daily basis :frown:.

But...trying the think like KC here, and make some assumptions about what she knows and does not know...

If I were KC and I pop the trunk at AL's to put the full trash bag inside and I see a big, fresh stain on the laundry bag and trunk liner, my first reaction would be...WTF!?!? I take a quick look inside the bag and see that fluids have been leaking from the mouth. The little light bulb in KC's head (perhaps more like a birthday candle) says "ah-ha" - that's the problem. And she comes up with a solution. I don't think KC would have done a thorough examination and made sure she'd covered all bases. She sees one problem and "solves" one problem.

Certainly flaws and loopholes here. If fluid was coming from elsewhere - a real possibility - then the duct tape on the mouth would not have stopped the ADD clock. But, it could have.
 
Here is yet another theory of mine, pulling bits and pieces out of old ones and sprinkling in some new details (discarding old, stale details that did not work, of course).

June 16

George sees KC and Caylee leave just before 1:00PM. Caylee is alive and walking under her own power, IMHO. There are three possible places they go: Kristina's, the elementary school playground, or Lee's. I am guessing Lee's - he's at work.

KC tries to get Caylee to go down for her nap, but she isn't ready. Tony calls and they talk for nearly 15 minutes. After the call KC still can't get Caylee to go to sleep, so she gets frustrated and medicates her with children's cold medicine, maybe Benedryl. KC has been doing this now periodically for nearly a month since Caylee had her cold in mid-May.

Caylee konks out around 1:40, and KC can finally have some peace. She dials up Amy and launches into a 36 minute call with her. They discuss boys, partying, gossip...Amy mentions some stuff on Facebook and MySpace, but KC is not on a computer. KC has to see this stuff, so she throws her stuff back into the car, puts a sleeping Caylee in the car seat, and drives back to the Anthony's - never getting of the phone. They arrive right around 2:00 with George safely gone.

KC grabs a couple things and takes them in, and intends to return immediately for Caylee...but something Amy says causes her to go fire up the computer and start surfing. More gossip, laughs, chit-chat. Call ends around 2:15.

At this point she is into it. She's surfing her friend's Facebook and MySpace pages, catching up on what they are up to, posting on their wall, commenting on photos, checks out the club events for the coming weekend, reads the latest celebrity gossip, maybe even fires up an internet chat with a friend.

Jesse calls around 2:53 and they talk about KC's problems at home, her moving out...a deep conversation that is interrupted by a call from George just after 3:00. He's spoken with Cindy, and they are in agreement: No staying overnight with the nanny. Both she and Caylee need to come home no matter how late KC's event runs.

Caylee...

She's just spent the last hour in the car with temps just above 90 outside. KC unstraps her from the car seat and brings her in, hoping to revive her, but it is already pretty obvious. She's been dead for more than a few minutes. The A/C never really cooled the car off during the short drive over from Lee's, and it did not take long for the car to go above 120 F once it was turned off. KC's mom was right - she's an unfit mother.

KC paces around not knowing what to do. The narcissist inside knows she needs to leave, and with Caylee. She calls Tony and tells him she is free for the evening...can she come over for the night? Tony readily agrees.

KC grabs the laundry bag and puts Caylee in it. She carries this to the car and puts it in the trunk. She packs for herself a couple of items, not really planning ahead beyond the coming eveing. Then she drives up to Tony's.

June 17

KC drives to her parent's home and backs into the garage. She opens the trunk and contemplates what to do next. Nothing really comes to mind. She tries moving the body and notices how stiff it is - no longer a cuddly girl. She is surprised at this and closes the trunk, goes inside to get more clothing for another night at Tony's, and leaves.

June 18

A return trip to the Anthony home, this time with a plan of what to do with Caylee: she will bury her in the yard. Unfortunately, she cannot get into the shed, so like any forward-thinker out there who wants to keep tracks covered, she goes to the neighbor and asks to borrow a shovel. :rolleyes: She moves the body to the back yard near a possible grave site. Digging even a shallow grave soon proves to be a daunting task, so KC rinses the shovel and returns it to the neighbor. Caylee goes back into the trunk and they return to Tony's. I think she formulated her plan her about using Zenaida "Zanny" the babysitter as a kidnapper. And put the tape on her mouth and across her hair. She added the heart sticker as a kiss... but she also could say that the kidnapper put it there as a signature mark.

June 19

She and Tony plan to meet with Matt C. late in the afternoon to look at an apartment. Prior to that meeting KC is cleaning Tony's apartment and around 3:00PM decides to take the garbage out on her way to Target or someplace like that. She opens the trunk and as she tosses the bag in she notices a stain on the liner under Caylee's laundry bag, and an unpleasant odor. She opens the bag to see where the stain is coming from and sees that fluid has been leaking from Caylee's mouth. Unbeknownst to KC, the movement of the body on the previous day accellerated the process of causing fluids to leak from the body.

This discovery surprises and horrifies Casey. Her first thought is to stop the fluid from coming out of Caylee's mouth. She recalls having Amy's duct tape in her car and pulls the roll out. From past experience she knows she cannot tear it well with her hands, so she runs inside and grabs a kitchen knife from Tony's. She cuts a strip of tape and wraps it around Caylee's head to stop the flow. After doing this she tosses the tape and knife into the car. Note...I am not saying pings near JBP indicate she did the taping there. I think this was simple - the parking lot is quiet this time of day. No need to drive out of the way for this.

Note that taping the mouth fixes the decomp date of the stain as 3 days after death. Also note that the bag from Tony's is the one eventually found at the tow yard. KC was so freaked by the fluids that she never went to the dumpster.

June 20

KC knows she needs to get the body out of the trunk, but the bag and trunk liner are soaked. She drives back to the grandparent's and grabs a trash bag, in which she places the laundry bag. On some level she knows this is not "right"...so she gets Caylee's Pooh blankie and puts that in the bag. Maybe a favorite toy horse she has clutched recently is spotted and she grabs that as well. These are put in the bag with Caylee. KC wants to kiss her daughter goodbye, but cannot bring herself to do so. Instead, she places a heart sticker on her cheek or lips, which are covered by duct tape (the warrant does not say where the tape was).

KC then drives up to Suburban and quickly dumps the body.

See my notes in red above... I would buy this scenario as a juror UNLESS they find forensic evidence that shows she made, purchased or a container that hold chloroform. I would by Bond's theory if it shows her back at the house bagging the body. I just do not see Casey using duct tape to cover the mouth from fluid drainage. I think she already formulated the theory of the babysitter kidnapping because.... she went on a huge campaign to her new friends and mom...to let them know Caylee was with a sitter at the beach, at Universal, in a car accident, known her for years. I think she was only able to go out and party on the 20th because she dumped the body on the 19th or 20th and formulated her babysitter kidnapping story and "staged the kidnapping". It was all sown up in her mind. "I can go party now... Caylee is at the nanny's." JG statement that Casey would tell herself and make up a lie and then believe it supports this.
 
JWG - I like your theory on dying in the carseat -- makes a lot of sense! My question for you is would there be any forensic evidence left on the carseat? (of course, maybe they haven't released the carseat information).

Bond - Regarding the repeat of flurry of calls on 6/16..... maybe KC was covering her tracks so to speak and knew Cyndi would be expecting them home and she was trying to smooth things over there with her stories about not coming home that night. KC was taking this one day/one hour at a time. Since she wasn't going home that night and Cyndi was expecting her to be there, I think the flurry in your examples would just be KC setting up her alibi for the night.....then we get the day to day beach, Sea World, Hard Rock hotel, Zanny's accident stories as each passing day went on. This was day 1 without Caylee.

FWIW, I think Caylee died at G & C's on the afternoon of the 16th (not sure how!) and *immediately* put in laundry bag and thrown into the trunk. Once KC noticed the stain and fluids coming out, she went to the secluded corner of her back yard and placed Caylee in the trashbag on one of her returns to the G&C's and immediately dumped on Suburban on her way out of the neighborhood -- all before Fusion Friday. Her last trip G&C's was to clean out the trunk.

I think she used the Bissel carpet cleaner and dumped the water in the backyard somewhere which caused a different hit by the dogs.

I want to believe it was an accident (like heat stroke in the car, drowning) but I can't get past the computer searches and her life and lies coming to a head and the fact that she believed she needed to be free from her responsibilities..... top that with duct tape ear to ear and in the hair with a heart sticker and it makes me feel this was totally and completely planned.

1 - Caylee was talking and telling G&C there was no Zanny

2 - KC had a new boyfriend that liked to go out and party

3 - Cyndi was not allowing KC to stay out all night with Caylee and pressuring her to stay home

4 - KC had a new "job" as promoter/shot girl manager at Fusion for the weekend and because of her deteriorating relationship with her parents, she didn't have a babysitter

5 - Caylee was a 2 year old requiring much more attention and probably becoming more difficult to deal with (terrible 2's).

6 - It was becoming harder to come up with lies about "work" and no money...KC was tired of the game.

7 - KC felt Cyndi and George loved Caylee more than her

1+2+3+4+5+6+7 = KC felt like she needed to kill Caylee.
 
It's the sixth video down. A video from the GVS show.

So how did this one time bounty hunter “know” what eluded search parties for months? We know from Fox Noise’s own video that area was not under water when Kronk called, he saw something white under the bag that made him call, so how was it EVERYONE else involved in the search screwed up? Tim Miller’s Texas EquuSearch is famous for its recovery searches and they, every one of them, missed it. Why didn’t the smell of a decomposing body, attract the cadaver dogs in previous searches? The body was not buried; it was in plain site if Klonk is to be believed and less then ten feet from the road. So what happened to the highly trained cadaver dogs to miss the remains during previous extensive searches?

They mention, in the video, that the body may have recently been moved there. IIRC, LE said the body had been there for some time which is how I formed my theory. :cow:

I heard two 'medical' talking heads say that Caylee's body would have been skeletonized within ~2-3 weeks given the conditions. She wasn't reported missing for a month. By the time the searchers were on the scene there were only bones left. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it would smell at that point. If the cadaver dogs didn't search close enough to her body and the wind was blowing in another direction, I doubt the dogs would have found her.
 
In addition to JWG and Bond's theories... I just wanted to ask?

Does anyone remember that on the Greta show that Cindy said the cadaver dogs hit in Caylee's room? But the released evidence does not state that...hmmm are we seeing a pattern with the prosecution that they are not releasing the items that are related to their case? Why would Cindy state that on national tv if the dogs did not hit there?


Annie's interview?
All cadaver dog hits?
 
I heard two 'medical' talking heads say that Caylee's body would have been skeletonized within ~2-3 weeks given the conditions. She wasn't reported missing for a month. By the time the searchers were on the scene there were only bones left. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it would smell at that point. If the cadaver dogs didn't search close enough to her body and the wind was blowing in another direction, I doubt the dogs would have found her.

I'm 90% sure they would have hit on the body back then. The wind and stuff like that might have made it possible for them to miss but to the jurors it might cause some doubt about the body being there at the time.
 
IMO, I still think CAYLEE was killed out of rage from kc. Duct tape, knife, ME says 'intentional homecide'.........if it was someone else or an accident kc would be screaming out the truth by now......kc knows this will turn out as an evil act.
When we get the whole goulish story, we will be even more upset, MOO
 
In addition to JWG and Bond's theories... I just wanted to ask?

Does anyone remember that on the Greta show that Cindy said the cadaver dogs hit in Caylee's room? But the released evidence does not state that...hmmm are we seeing a pattern with the prosecution that they are not releasing the items that are related to their case? Why would Cindy state that on national tv if the dogs did not hit there?


Annie's interview?
All cadaver dog hits?

LE keeps things back to help verify suspects stories. It's possible that's one of the things they're holding back but, if CA already said it publicly it kind of defeats the purpose.
 
In addition to JWG and Bond's theories... I just wanted to ask?

Does anyone remember that on the Greta show that Cindy said the cadaver dogs hit in Caylee's room? But the released evidence does not state that...hmmm are we seeing a pattern with the prosecution that they are not releasing the items that are related to their case? Why would Cindy state that on national tv if the dogs did not hit there?


Annie's interview?
All cadaver dog hits?


This is not a pattern at all. The SA will not release anything sensitive to their case period.
 
I agree that Casey probably used Xanax (probably supplied by Annie) to put Caylee out and that is where the term Zanny the Nanny came from. That had been going on for a long time...

i have never understood the point of xanaxing the child. where could she leave her, xanaxed to sleep? not in the car--she'd overheat and/or be seen. not at home--then GA and CA would know. at her friends' place? what friends would think that was okay? :confused:
 
I'm confused about the knife, and really all the items in the car. CA and GA took it from the tow yard so they had their hands on the knife, the backpack, and everything else. So they handed all of this stuff over to LE, and now LE has it in evidence? We can't be sure CA gave LE the correct knife.

Actually, I would be inclined to take just about anything Cindy said and did on the evening of July 15 and all day July 16 as truthful / factual.

LE wants to speak with witnesses to a crime as soon as possible after the crime because, in their heightened emotional state, they are more likely to give very useful information. Note Cindy's 911 calls and statements to co-workers - she was not at all holding back that she felt something had gone terribly wrong. From everything I read in the various evidence documents, she was quite cooperative with LE throughout the 16th.

I would say that the point where Cindy's unyielding cooperation ended was when LE arrested KC. At that point she realized where this was headed and her shields went up.

The contents of the car were turned over on the 16th before the arrest. Yes, I do believe she turned over the correct knife.
 
i have never understood the point of xanaxing the child. where could she leave her, xanaxed to sleep? not in the car--she'd overheat and/or be seen. not at home--then GA and CA would know. at her friends' place? what friends would think that was okay? :confused:
Maybe she used Xanax, but I think over-the-counter cold medicine is more likely. And I don't think at all that she was leaving her in the car on purpose. On the 16th I think she was trying to get her to take a nap at Lee's. Something about her call with Amy made her want to get back to her parent's and on the computer. In the rush / activity to get back there, she left Caylee in the car and forgot about her.
 
Jay D said:
I took some duct tape from my garage this morn and compared the effort of cutting it with a dinner knife as opposed to tearing it. It was easier to tear it. Maybe KC didn't know this and thought she needed a knife, but thinking like a 22 year old girl, wouldn't she have grabbed scissors rather than a kitchen knife? Also I noticed that cutting with a knife would not leave a print on the sticky side of the tape still on the roll. To this juror, there is really not a needed correlation between the knife and the tape.


My roll of "Duck" brand duct tape is perforated about every 1/8". This is convenient because it doesn't require any cutting to remove a piece.
 
Ok, I just have to know. I'm not even going to debate it if you answer, but I have seen this over and over again, and I really am interested in how people are coming to these conclusions, so if you don't mind terribly, would you explain your reasoning behind why you think the duct tape was put on after death?
1.) What led you to believe the duct tape was to make it look like a kidnapping?
2.) What led you to believe the duct tape was to stop fluids from leaking out?
TIA
Lanie
Adding as a third question: What led you to believe the duct tape was applied after death, as opposed to before death?
I am interested in answers from ANYONE who has one or all of the above opinions.
TIA
Lanie


I think the tape was post mortem. I think the tape went ear to ear to cover the three orifices Casey thought fluids were leaking from. I think the sticker might have been applied the last time Casey looked at her, almost as an act of "kindness". Caylee probably loved stickers.
 
In addition to JWG and Bond's theories... I just wanted to ask?

Does anyone remember that on the Greta show that Cindy said the cadaver dogs hit in Caylee's room? But the released evidence does not state that...hmmm are we seeing a pattern with the prosecution that they are not releasing the items that are related to their case? Why would Cindy state that on national tv if the dogs did not hit there?


Annie's interview?
All cadaver dog hits?
I don't remember anything about the dogs hitting in Caylee's room. Is it true that she said that?
 
I don't remember anything about the dogs hitting in Caylee's room. Is it true that she said that?

I will have to go back and listen to the GVS show. Do not have time now... Unless someone else finds it before me..:waitasec:
 
Snipped for content:
Regarding the repeat of flurry of calls on 6/16..... maybe KC was covering her tracks so to speak and knew Cyndi would be expecting them home and she was trying to smooth things over there with her stories about not coming home that night. KC was taking this one day/one hour at a time. Since she wasn't going home that night and Cyndi was expecting her to be there, I think the flurry in your examples would just be KC setting up her alibi for the night.....then we get the day to day beach, Sea World, Hard Rock hotel, Zanny's accident stories as each passing day went on. This was day 1 without Caylee.
I tend to regard the flurry of calls as a way to cover her tracks too.
My train of thought goes to how did CA get KC to stay home the night of the fight? It seems that KC would want to be anywhere but at her parent's home after a fight in which CA allegedly choked her. Instead, she stayed at the house regardless of the tension that must have been there.

I'm thinking that the only way CA had to make KC stay home was to tell her she would report the car stolen if she left in it or didn't return home with it. It's apparent that CA used this tactic when she wanted to make KC comply with her because that was her threat when she found KC. The next day, when CA was at work, KC did take the car and leave.

KC most certainly didn't want that car reported stolen if her child's body lie in the trunk deceased on the 16th. She didn't know if CA was still holding out on that threat. She may have smoothed it over with GA when she spoke with him at 3pm but still had to speak with CA to confirm that she was in the clear as far as having the car that night.
 
I will have to go back and listen to the GVS show. Do not have time now... Unless someone else finds it before me..:waitasec:
Thanks. I'll go check it out and see. I just didn't know if you were sure of this or if I should go and search for it.
 
Yes, you are right, and I read probably more than I should have about that last night before I made my post.:sick: Writing about this, too, I find myself having to forcefully prevent myself from thinking about the victim...wonder if that is what a medical examiner goes through on a daily basis :frown:.

But...trying the think like KC here, and make some assumptions about what she knows and does not know...

If I were KC and I pop the trunk at AL's to put the full trash bag inside and I see a big, fresh stain on the laundry bag and trunk liner, my first reaction would be...WTF!?!? I take a quick look inside the bag and see that fluids have been leaking from the mouth. The little light bulb in KC's head (perhaps more like a birthday candle) says "ah-ha" - that's the problem. And she comes up with a solution. I don't think KC would have done a thorough examination and made sure she'd covered all bases. She sees one problem and "solves" one problem.

Certainly flaws and loopholes here. If fluid was coming from elsewhere - a real possibility - then the duct tape on the mouth would not have stopped the ADD clock. But, it could have.
Sorry to harp on. I am as sure as I can be about anything in this case: Mouth tape alone would have no effect on ADD. I was even worried that experts might say that a sealed garbage bag would not be sufficient. That seems to have been conceded, but I am not totally convinced it would be an adequate containment of forensic evidence over several days.
 
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