Theory Thread

[waltzingmatilda]

I'm curious if perhaps red flags were raised with child services and she lashed out at Sandra instead of her own daughter. We'll prolly never know her own daughter's medical history in full but she was a sickly child according to reports. Poor little thing, I hope she's in a safe place now. You know she's gotta be a confused little girl right now!

 

[Nora Charles]

I don't know much about MBP but I was wondering if this would still fit. If her daughter's best friend was murdered, she would still be getting attention. She would be "mourning," and "giving comfort" and people would still feel sorry for her. Wouldn't that still be MBP without it being her own child?

Thanks for all the posts about MBP. I know someone who seems to be faking illness and injuries all the time, as well as non-existent financial situations so people feel sorry for her and give her money, so you guys have me curious about MBP. I've been tuning her out lately because I couldn't figure her out. She is either "at death's door" and getting sympathy for that or, in a fit of energy, does amazingly taxing and unasked for things for others - then tells everyone so she gets all kinds of praise. I've just thought she was a hypochondriac and had some kind of "martyr syndrome" (don't know if there is such a thing). Is there only "MBP" or do some people just have the "M"? LOL

 

[Reannan]

I don't know much about MBP but I was wondering if this would still fit. If her daughter's best friend was murdered, she would still be getting attention. She would be "mourning," and "giving comfort" and people would still feel sorry for her. Wouldn't that still be MBP without it being her own child?

Thanks for all the posts about MBP. I know someone who seems to be faking illness and injuries all the time, as well as non-existent financial situations so people feel sorry for her and give her money, so you guys have me curious about MBP. I've been tuning her out lately because I couldn't figure her out. She is either "at death's door" and getting sympathy for that or, in a fit of energy, does amazingly taxing and unasked for things for others - then tells everyone so she gets all kinds of praise. I've just thought she was a hypochondriac and had some kind of "martyr syndrome" (don't know if there is such a thing). Is there only "MBP" or do some people just have the "M"? LOL

That is an excellent question! Most MBP perpetrators are parents, which doesn't fit this case, so we are already in unchartered territory if we are indeed dealing with any sort of MBP scenario. This is where I wish we had some clinical psychologist who could join in the discussion!

 

[nursebeeme]

Hey Reee!!! Go read the astro thread on this case. Tuba's chart indicated poisoning or drowning. Interesting stuff! (very first post on the thread on her chart... you have to enlarge it to read it well)

 

[nursebeeme]

I think Melissa took the Munch out of Munchhausen's... I bet the two psychiatrists that examined her for her other court case have their own (and most likely correct) opinions of what may have happened here....

 

[Reannan]

Hey Reee!!! Go read the astro thread on this case. Tuba's chart indicated poisoning or drowning. Interesting stuff! (very first post on the thread on her chart... you have to enlarge it to read it well)

Wow. I had never visited that thread before! It really is interesting stuff, especially given what we know thus far. I found Tuba's reading of "strangulation, poisoning or drowning" VERY intersting given what we know for a fact thus far....and what is beginning to be the only thing that makes sense to me. Here is essentially what I posted over there, that sums up my theory (and it ties in perfectly with what the astro charts indicated):

My theory is a death that got out of hand due to Munchausen's by Proxy. Given the following information that we KNOW FOR A FACT:

1. MH informed a reporter that she, herself, had been interviewed in the past few months because a 7 year old child in her care was discovered to have narcotics in their system after returning from a visit to the park. (This has NOT been confirmed by any reliable source that I know of - but the fact that MH told this story is VERY telling).

2. LE removed mini-blinds from some of the homes that they searched. This tells me that Sandra probably was either bound or strangled with the cord from a mini-blind.

I can see a scenario where MH somehow gave Sandra some sort of drug to make her pass out, and then planned on staging an "accidental hanging" by the mini-blinds; perhaps in the church - with the ultimate plan to "resuce" Sandra and therefore be a hero. The whole thing went wrong, and Sandra died. Rather than feel remorse, however, MH rapidly became addicted to the attention the case was getting and became more involved by speaking with the media, LE, and friends and family; even leaving notes at the memorial.

 

[balaney]

Question - does the suitcase have wheels? If so, easy to pull 85 pounds alone. A little heavy, but easily done.

I think MH wants to be in the spot light. She was going to "help" solve a murder and be famous. She is probably a sociopath and drug addict. She enjoys controlling others - namely little girls - at an age where she was once controlled with medications. She has a hard time distinguishing reality from dreamland. She thinks she is much more important than she is.

She told Sandra to meet her at the church or somewhere along the way under the pretense of helping her decorate her room. She then picked her up along the way at the designated spot or met her at the church. She was forceful with Sandra who fought back. She had planned on abusing her, killing her and disposing of her. She pretended to leave the suitcase in the drive and ask about as she built her very see-thru alibi. She was very aware she would be using the suitcase to hide Sandra's body when she took it to her car. IMO Sandra was not yet dead but waiting to help out at the church.

All of this is MO

 

[balaney]

I am also concerned with her daughter having to clean her room. I know when my kids have friends stop by I am thrilled to get them out of the house and in to the fresh air. The room can wait. Only under dramatic circumstances such as I have told them a hundred times to clean up and they deliberately do otherwise - then they are punished and now allowed out until their mess is picked up. The child is 5. If she got her toys out and had not yet put them away - why not let Sandra come in and play with them and her? Was Sandra told to come back in ten minutes after the toys were picked up and then she could play? Was Sandra told to come back in a few minutes - not knowing MH would be waiting to grab her? Was the daughter of MH in punishment (physical) and MH did not want anybody to see her? I would not think so if she asked Sandra's sister to sit. Was it just a story about the picking up of toys she told in order to catch Sandra off guard when she came back and put her in the car?

 

[Torsade]

I don't know much about MBP but I was wondering if this would still fit. If her daughter's best friend was murdered, she would still be getting attention. She would be "mourning," and "giving comfort" and people would still feel sorry for her. Wouldn't that still be MBP without it being her own child?

Thanks for all the posts about MBP. I know someone who seems to be faking illness and injuries all the time, as well as non-existent financial situations so people feel sorry for her and give her money, so you guys have me curious about MBP. I've been tuning her out lately because I couldn't figure her out. She is either "at death's door" and getting sympathy for that or, in a fit of energy, does amazingly taxing and unasked for things for others - then tells everyone so she gets all kinds of praise. I've just thought she was a hypochondriac and had some kind of "martyr syndrome" (don't know if there is such a thing). Is there only "MBP" or do some people just have the "M"? LOL

Yes, Munchausen Syndrome exists, exactly as you would suspect. No proxy needed.

 

[Torsade]

Could she have planned to "save" Sandra from suffocating inside of a fold-a-way bed? Wasn't it a fold a way bed type thing that was taken from the church? Seems like that may have been Sandra's place of death.
This would fit a MBP situation.

 

[PattyCake]

Does anyone think she wanted to make money with child *advertiser censored* maybe?

I have such a hard time wrapping my brain around a senseless child murder without there being another factor. I'd rather think Sandra died painlessly but don't think that's the case.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

VERY Interesting link about munchausen by proxy.....

http://kidshealth.org/parent/system/ill/munchausen.html

 

[waltzingmatilda]

It would be interesting to know if Melissa's daughter's health improves since MH is incarcerated.

 

[aprilshowers]

Media now saying SANDRA was murdered in the CHURCH!

Yes, this is what I stated earlier today:

Actually, the first thing I thought of was ... a 'snuff' movie. Lots of money for them, could have been made in the church, on the mattress. UGH! Makes me sick to type it, but that's where my mind went first.

I'm still thinking along these lines ... :furious:

 

[wfgodot]

MBP makes much sense although it's rare; much less rare is the way women traditionally, over the ages, have killed: via poisons. Overdose by prescription drugs, of course, fits this category. It all goes back to motive in this case.

 

[southerngirl]

My current theory is possible revenge. Can anyone refresh my memory regarding why Sandra's gf installed the security camera? I recall his tires had been slashed, and I vaguely recollect he had removed bothersome cats from his property prior to his tires being slashed. Did these cats belong to MH? I think MH suffers from a personality disorder ( borderline personality disorder comes to mind.) If she is the one who slashed Sandra's gf's tires due to a perceived injustice, she is destructive and malicious, and I believe the murder was a continuation of her hatred and cruelty.

 

[southerngirl]

Here are the symptoms of BPD:

Borderline personality disorder affects how you feel about yourself, how you relate to others and how you behave.
When you have BPD, you often have an insecure sense of who you are. That is, your self-image or sense of self often rapidly changes. You may view yourself as evil or bad, and sometimes may feel as if you don't exist at all. An unstable self-image often leads to frequent changes in jobs, friendships, goals, values and gender identity.
Your relationships are usually in turmoil. You often experience a love-hate relationship with others. You may idealize someone one moment and then abruptly and dramatically shift to fury and hate over perceived slights or even minor misunderstandings. This is because people with the disorder have difficulty accepting gray areas — things are either black or white. For instance, in the eyes of a person with BPD, someone is either good or evil. And that same person may seem good one day and evil the next.
Other signs and symptoms of borderline personality disorder may include:

• Impulsive and risky behavior, such as risky driving, unsafe sex, gambling sprees or taking illicit drugs
• Strong emotions that wax and wane frequently
• Intense but short episodes of anxiety or depression
• Inappropriate anger, sometimes escalating into physical confrontations
• Difficulty controlling emotions or impulses
• Suicidal behavior
• Fear of being alone

 

[panthera]

My current theory is possible revenge. Can anyone refresh my memory regarding why Sandra's gf installed the security camera? I recall his tires had been slashed, and I vaguely recollect he had removed bothersome cats from his property prior to his tires being slashed. Did these cats belong to MH? I think MH suffers from a personality disorder ( borderline personality disorder comes to mind.) If she is the one who slashed Sandra's gf's tires due to a perceived injustice, she is destructive and malicious, and I believe the murder was a continuation of her hatred and cruelty.

I haven't heard of either MH or anyone in her grandfather's house owning any pets ~ but if they did ~ I could see the "logic" of MH correcting the perceived injustice by doing something to harm Sandra's family (retaliation). There's a huge jump though from destroying property to murder, but maybe not in the mind of someone who is unbalanced to begin with. MOO

 

[cindysue]

I think it was a second attempt at making money by selling pictures. It could have started with a drugging and i think she passed out and she moved her to the church in the suitcase, but she could have suffocated inside. That could be why there was no visible sign of trama. When she got to the church and discovered this, she simply disposed of the case in the water, but maybe someone was there at the church waiting and helped her dispose of the case.

The blind cord was possibly part of the scene for the pictures. And she could have told her daughter that her friend said she was running away simply so that her daughter didn't ask questions later when she never came back. Which would show premeditation IMO. That she knew she wasn't coming back. She knew she wouldn't be able to explain it so she couldn't let her go.

The letter was a sign of someones guilty conscience. And of course she had her big sister come over, just so later she could say she was in the house and her sister wasn't there.

After reading most of the evidence in this case, this is how i see it all tie in together. If i missed some clues, id be interested in knowing them so I can try to fit them into my theory. This is just my opinion, tell me if it seems far fetched. :twocents:

 

[Reannan]

I find it interesting that MH's mother and her 5-year-old daughter were scheduled to go on a planned vacation since the day after Sandra went missing. I wonder if that factored into Sandra's death? Was MH angry that her own mother was taking her 5-year old daughter on a trip and somehow felt neglected and left out - much as she did when she was 6 years old?

"Huckaby's father, Brian Lawless, said he was at a preacher's conference in Salinas when he heard news of his daughter's arrest. He informed his wife, Judy, who has been on a planned vacation in Northern California with Huckaby's 5-year-old daughter, Ma****n, since the day after Sandra went missing."

http://www.mercurynews.com/topstories/ci_12128530