Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

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Oh, so you think George knew about Caylee's fate prior to July 15, and that he assisted KC in covering up/hiding the truth from CA prior to 7/15?

Okay, but how does that jive with his enraged behavior about KC in front of his friend at the house (either the night of July 15th or the night KC was bonded out, I can't remember.) However, I do recall that GA shouted something like, "If you want to know where Caylee is, ask that b!itch in the bedroom! She knows!"

And if he was KC's co-conspirator way back then, why would he have gotten LE aside and warned them that KC knows more than she's saying?

<Throwing my hands up in the air> I give up. I am deviousness-impaired. :banghead:

I have always thought that George knew Caylee was deceased as of the fateful gas cans incident, when he was close enough to have smelled the smell emanating from the car. He may or may not have helped Casey in some way re: Caylee's body, but I bet he told the Grand Jury what he smelled that day in June. :(
 
Oh, so you think George knew about Caylee's fate prior to July 15, and that he assisted KC in covering up/hiding the truth from CA prior to 7/15?

Okay, but how does that jive with his enraged behavior about KC in front of his friend at the house (either the night of July 15th or the night KC was bonded out, I can't remember.) However, I do recall that GA shouted something like, "If you want to know where Caylee is, ask that b!itch in the bedroom! She knows!"

And if he was KC's co-conspirator way back then, why would he have gotten LE aside and warned them that KC knows more than she's saying?

<Throwing my hands up in the air> I give up. I am deviousness-impaired. :banghead:

Glad you are dev-impaired, Friday. We need more like you on the good-guys team! :bud: ...and I wouldn't wanna be working opposite you either.

I didn't catch the "b!tch" reference, but, I do recall Tim Miller relaying almost verbatim what you quoted above as what George said to him when he first arrived @ G&C's.

Seems like I also recall George saying something to Rev. Grund at an early prayer service along these lines...I just can't quite bring that one outta the fog @ the moment.
 
See I don't think she would have left. She really enjoyed her new life with TL - would she have told TL to run away with her? I think the house would have gone on fire. I think when pushed KC is capable of many horrible things.

<Shiver> You're probably right.
 
Let not your heart be troubled, Friday. :)

...in addition to TexasLil, I also verified to the AT&T records as well as Georgia PI's ping maps (as Lil did also). I stand on the account I posted earlier.

FWIW, the work Chezhire is referencing was done back in October '08. Not saying/implying anything about the quality of that work at all ...we were all fumbling through OCR'd versions of the data, finding Excel bugs, etc. etc. back then. Everyone working on the cell records has found errors along the way. There was a tremendous amount of teamwork that went into what we have today, including the work QS did.

:blowkiss:
 
When were Georgia PI's ping maps created? I thought that they were done in October of 2008, too... :waitasec:

No mas. No mas. :HBwhiteflag:

I have nothing but the greatest respect for QS's work.

All I can say @ this point is that you may wanna ask QS to weigh in on it.

I'm done. :silenced:
 
Let not your heart be troubled, Friday. :)

...in addition to TexasLil, I also verified to the AT&T records as well as Georgia PI's ping maps (as Lil did also). I stand on the account I posted earlier.

FWIW, the work Chezhire is referencing was done back in October '08. Not saying/implying anything about the quality of that work at all ...we were all fumbling through OCR'd versions of the data, finding Excel bugs, etc. etc. back then. Everyone working on the cell records has found errors along the way. There was a tremendous amount of teamwork that went into what we have today, including the work QS did.

ETA: Just to be perfectly clear...I have nothing but the greatest respect for QS' work.
Emphasis added by me, Chezhire.

When were Georgia PI's ping maps created? I thought that they were done in October of 2008, too... :waitasec:

I have a lot of respect for everyone who put time and energy into creating a ping map for me to look at and ponder over. A LOT.

My question now is where is the newest version of GeorgiaPI's, b/c the one TexasLil linked earlier says it was created in October of 2008 and modified in October of 2008... but I'm reading in this thread that more work on the ping info. has been done since October of 2008, which might be why QuietStorm's work isn't an exact match today...

Anyone got a link???
TIA!
:blowkiss:
 
Well said ~~ Problem is most of us have been raised in a dysfunctional family and this wasnt brought to light until recently! Being born in 1950, I too was raised by an alcoholic and verbally abusive mother and a sweet dedicated, but brow beaten dad. My mother was raised with a silver spoon in her mouth during the depression years and my father's family was poor. My mom hated everything that existed around her with the exception of my sister and later her granddaughter. I do NOT support any of the Anthony's nor condone their actions nor feel pity for them! And being raised under these circumstances should not be the excuse for her actions~ It is time for this family to accept responsibility for their actions and respect Caylee by doing what is right~JMO

I was raised in a home like the Anthony's, like the person you are responding to. A Borderline personality disordered drug addicted mother and a Antisocial personality disordered drug addicted step father and I did allow myself to succomb to it for many years by doing some lousy, horrible, criminal things. Worst of all and most of all, those of us who grow up in these kinds of homes usually do far more damage to ourselves then to anyone else. We are taught to hate ourselves, our feelings, our wants and our needs. We are taught that we get in the way (afterall, THAT is often the real reason they don't punish us when we misbehave, they have more imoprtant things to do and if we are being punished at home it would get in the way of their life, their plans for the day.) that we have no right to loyalty or feeling safe in our own home or calling out to our mother in the middle of the night because we are ill..

We learn to not feel, to not care about ourselves or anyone else (cuz they don't care about ME!) we don't worry about what kind of life we lead because even if we are perfect it is not enough, we are still trash. We spend our lives numbing up and slowly killing ourselves... not givin' a .

I understand why Casey is screwed up, her past behaviors I get- I grew up in that kind of home, I know what it does to a soul, the damage it causes. I get her stealing, lying, manipulating, drinking, drugs, sex, all of that I get, I have been there and worse (with a mom much like Cindy who publicly blamed everyone but me). but killing her daughter? No. If she killed Caylee there is NOTHING her parents did or didn't do to cause that!
 
No mas. No mas. :HBwhiteflag:

I have nothing but the greatest respect for QS's work.

All I can say @ this point is that you may wanna ask QS to weigh in on it.

I'm done. :silenced:

I've asked her.

ETA: A disagreement between all of our fine cell ping experts is something that worries me, especially since the date in question is possibly the date Caylee died.
 
I have always thought that George knew Caylee was deceased as of the fateful gas cans incident, when he was close enough to have smelled the smell emanating from the car. He may or may not have helped Casey in some way re: Caylee's body, but I bet he told the Grand Jury what he smelled that day in June. :(

I think he did too.. I think George has probably been honest when it mattered.
 
I was raised in a home like the Anthony's, like the person you are responding to. A Borderline personality disordered drug addicted mother and a Antisocial personality disordered drug addicted step father and I did allow myself to succomb to it for many years by doing some lousy, horrible, criminal things. Worst of all and most of all, those of us who grow up in these kinds of homes usually do far more damage to ourselves then to anyone else. We are taught to hate ourselves, our feelings, our wants and our needs. We are taught that we get in the way (afterall, THAT is often the real reason they don't punish us when we misbehave, they have more imoprtant things to do and if we are being punished at home it would get in the way of their life, their plans for the day.) that we have no right to loyalty or feeling safe in our own home or calling out to our mother in the middle of the night because we are ill..

We learn to not feel, to not care about ourselves or anyone else (cuz they don't care about ME!) we don't worry about what kind of life we lead because even if we are perfect it is not enough, we are still trash. We spend our lives numbing up and slowly killing ourselves... not givin' a .

I understand why Casey is screwed up, her past behaviors I get- I grew up in that kind of home, I know what it does to a soul, the damage it causes. I get her stealing, lying, manipulating, drinking, drugs, sex, all of that I get, I have been there and worse (with a mom much like Cindy who publicly blamed everyone but me). but killing her daughter? No. If she killed Caylee there is NOTHING her parents did or didn't do to cause that!

Your posts always make me think of being in your situation, trying to feel or numb myself enough from this kind of daily torment......which now begs the question, with what I bolded.......Were they not indirectly, in this case, a cause to the ultimate demise of Caylee?
 
Glad you are dev-impaired, Friday. We need more like you on the good-guys team! :bud: ...and I wouldn't wanna be working opposite you either.

Aw, gee, BJB, this is truly high praise from the highest of sources. <embarrassed blush>

I didn't catch the "b!tch" reference, but, I do recall Tim Miller relaying almost verbatim what you quoted above as what George said to him when he first arrived @ G&C's.

Well, h@ll, you're just plain amazing, and now I really am embarrassed. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: You see, I knew for certain the info re George's outburst in front of his old friend was now public knowledge, so I felt comfortable alluding to it. However, even though I'd heard the original story from Tim himself, I didn't mention him in my post because...well...because I'd forgotten that Tim had already confirmed it publicly. :floorlaugh:

I'd also forgotten until now that Tim politely self-edited the "B!tch" word for prime-time network TV. But that is what George said. Does this added bit of knowedge sway you one way or another? Just curious. Obviously, it sways me somewhat.

Seems like I also recall George saying something to Rev. Grund at an early prayer service along these lines...I just can't quite bring that one outta the fog @ the moment.

Neither can I.
 
FWIW...some info to use in lining up theories 'bout what happened 6/15...

Per E-Pass records here it appears that Cindy and Caylee left for Mt. Dora around ~9AM, 6/16 (see Conway toll 9:27AM)

Per cell pings, Casey left G&C's just after ~9AM and arrived @ Tony's ~9:15AM.

Per E-Pass records (and consistent w/ statements) it appears Cindy & Caylee returned home to Hopespring ~3PM (see matching Conway toll @ 2:33PM).

Per cell records...

@ 3:35PM Cindy called Casey's cell from the Hopespring home phone. Casey let this call roll to vmail, and Cindy left a 36 second vmail.

@ 3:45PM Kyle called Casey's cell phone and Casey let this one roll to vmail also. At no time during this period does Casey interact w/ her phone.

@ 5:06PM, w/o checking vmail, Casey called G&C's Hopespring home phone from her cell phone @ Tony's apt. for a 3 minute conversation, or left a 3minute answering machine message.

...2 hours pass, w/ no activity on Casey's cell, @ 7:06PM Casey begins a text dialogue w/ Tony while she is still near his apartment. The pings from this conversation indicate Casey left Tony's ~7:06PM.

@ 7:10PM Casey already enroute & unprompted, calls G&C's Hopespring home phone for a 1 minute conversation or answering machine message.

@ 7:36PM Casey arrived @ G&C's Hopespring home.

...between 7:06PM and 9:26PM Casey is engaged in a continuous texting conversation w/ Tony (and a little w/ Amy). The single greatest lapse between their texts was 11minutes @ 8:56 w/ most of them in the 2 minute range.

@ 9:26PM a period of cell inactivity lasting 39minutes begins. (IMHO, this seems to be a good candidate for "the fight")

@ 10:06PM Casey ends the cell inactivity after receiving a text from Tony by placing a call to Tony and talking w/ him for 10minutes (IMHO, this also would seem to be indicative of the fight having just taken place)

@ 10:25PM the heavy texting between Casey and Tony resumes for the balance of the night...with a 40minute break @ 11PM.

Some other things to consider...

IIRC, George was @ work 6/15PM...based on his work schedule he would've been gone or in the process of leaving about the time Cindy & Caylee returned to Hopespring that afternoon.

I believe Caylee's naptime was typically 1-3PM. Since Caylee was @ Shirley's, etc. during her normal naptime, Caylee likely fell asleep in her carseat on the ride back to Hopespring (speculation).

Cindy didn't fire off several calls to Casey to come home. She simply left a vmail. Even when Casey didn't respond. No add'l calls from Cindy.

Casey was casual about coming home. She may have seen the missed call# and known about being called from Hopespring, but, she didn't check her vmail. She simply did her own thing for another couple of hours and called when she was on her way home.

There appears to be an opportunity for Cindy & Caylee to have gone for a swim after arriving @ Hopespring after Caylee, perhaps, finished her nap. Recall they had eaten @ Shirley's. Dunno if they needed to eat again.

By 9:26PM a tired Caylee should've already been in bed asleep. IIRC, Caylee typically co-slept w/ Casey in her room. With George @ work still, and Lee nowhere around, this would've given the rest of the house to Cindy & Casey to have it out. By this time in the evening it would also seem to be quiet enough in the neighborhood that a shouting match would've been overheard...esp. if they carried it out into the backyard...

This scenario would have Casey going into her bedroom (closing the door presumably) with Caylee already asleep after "the fight" if it indeed occurred @ 9:26-10:06PM.

For 6/15 post-fight-smothering theory proponents it would appear Casey had ~35 minutes of cooling off from the time she resumed texting w/ Tony (perhaps in her room w/ Caylee) until a 40minute period of cell inactivity began. Not that Casey would've required more than a few minutes to accomplish a smothering...just that it might entail more than just the act itself. Could also just be something like a time to remove make-up, etc. FWIW.

Hope that helps paint a picture of the day.


This is exactly how I read the cell pings and tracked the day.
 
Your posts always make me think of being in your situation, trying to feel or numb myself enough from this kind of daily torment......which now begs the question, with what I bolded.......Were they not indirectly, in this case, a cause to the ultimate demise of Caylee?
This is how I feel, Casey is legally responsible for Caylee's death, but Cindy and George must be somewhat morally responsible. They raised Casey and lived full time with her and Caylee, they knew what kind of parent Casey was.
 
I feel that GA and CA do have some responsibility in the death of Caylee, because they did ALL live in the home from the day Caylee was born. They knew and stated by GA that KC was having a problem and Cindy warned friends to stay away from her. If you think that your child is out of control you have a responsibility to the grand baby of age 2 to look out for her. Who else did Caylee have but the grand parents living in that house? Sorry but that is how I feel.
 
I am just reading back through some of the posts here, and the ones linked from here, and MUST say, you guys have done some awesome work on the pings, computer, etc..everything !!!!!
 
This is how I feel, Casey is legally responsible for Caylee's death, but Cindy and George must be somewhat morally responsible. They raised Casey and lived full time with her and Caylee, they knew what kind of parent Casey was.

They knew & turned a blind eye to KC & her issues, overlooking everything, coupled with an over-controlling Mother, more concerned with the appearances of their family, never addressing, but contributing to the Elephant, growing bigger by the day.

I know OLG & many suffer the wounds of parents like Cindy, & never resort to Murder. KC was, IMHO a ticking time-bomb, with signs everywhere, & Cindy let it go & then pushed the wrong button.

I have, & always will hold her, indirectly responsible for the death of Caylee.
 
I've asked her.

ETA: A disagreement between all of our fine cell ping experts is something that worries me, especially since the date in question is possibly the date Caylee died.

ITA! I'm glad you have brought it to our attention- you are another here who I honestly respect!
 
I am just reading back through some of the posts here, and the ones linked from here, and MUST say, you guys have done some awesome work on the pings, computer, etc..everything !!!!!

I agree- we have some hard working people here!!
 
Wonderfully written post! Coincidentally, I happen to agree with every single word. LOL

TY! I appreciate the posts of support. As difficult as watching this case unfold the way it has...I do understand on some level (and I hate that phrase) the relationship at least, between Lee and Casey. Lee thinks that they are close, sharing the same dysfunctional childhood, the same inside jokes with one another (to deal with their parents and they way they were raised)...Lee is likely telling himself, that, "Hey we were both in the same screwed up household and I never did anything like that...how could my sister, given our shared lifelong experiences and dealings with one another, go to a place where I could not?" KC is more manipulative obviously and more dangerous than her mother in this respect...as far as we know, CA has never taken a life. KC has. But what contributed to her lack of caring? Her personality, her choices, absolutely...but I still believe that after being yelled at and manipulated enough by her mother (especially) she stopped giving a chit, stopped caring and ultimately, just wanted to lash out. But again, I have no inside knowledge nor clinical knowledge...just can imagine what must have gone on in that household when KC and Lee were kids. Because of what went on in my own.
 
Aw, gee, BJB, this is truly high praise from the highest of sources. <embarrassed blush>



Well, h@ll, you're just plain amazing, and now I really am embarrassed. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: You see, I knew for certain the info re George's outburst in front of his old friend was now public knowledge, so I felt comfortable alluding to it. However, even though I'd heard the original story from Tim himself, I didn't mention him in my post because...well...because I'd forgotten that Tim had already confirmed it publicly. :floorlaugh:

I'd also forgotten until now that Tim politely self-edited the "B!tch" word for prime-time network TV. But that is what George said. Does this added bit of knowedge sway you one way or another? Just curious. Obviously, it sways me somewhat.



Neither can I.

I said it before and I'll say it again, I wish I knew half of the things you do, Friday!
 
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