2010.07.14 Investigators re-interviewing people who saw Kyron; Kyron seen w/out Terri

[Indianagirl]

That's my problem - "no hesitation" It's almost as if they were anticipating this question and answered it so quickly. They don't believe anything TH says; why this particular point?

IMO, they probably have witnesses that place baby K there. They're not basing their belief on what Terri has said.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM
If what that friend has stated to the press is true I have wonder why the teacher would say that. For those of you that have children in school do they have to ask permission or tell a teacher if they are going for a drink of water or to the bathroom? I know we had to. Furthermore if the teacher thought this why wouldn't she have wondered why he never returned?

I think on an ordinary day, asking permission would be the norm.

But on science fair day, with groups of kids roaming the school (escorted by adults) and then meeting back in their classrooms? I think it would seem fairly normal for a kid to stop to grab a quick drink of water or make a trip to the bathroom before re-entering the classroom.

 

[Susan10]

Okay this is driving me insane.... Awhile back I was watching Glenn Beck and on his show he was talking about how things happen right in front of you and you never see it, of course he was talking about the way the government is slowly taking away are freedoms and we dont see it, but that is not my point. He showed a short video of a bunch of people loading an air plane, and the engine was running on the plane there was a lot going on in the video, then he took and played the same video but removed something from the video and asked if you could see what it was, and honestly you could not. He called it something, but I cant remember what it was called it was something about organised chaos and how our brains only focus on what is important, he talked about how this is how people can commit crimes in plain sight without being seen. I am convinced that is what happened here, I think that there was so much "organised chaos" that no one payed attention to a certain person or person's, and I think that was what the whole point of going to the science fair in the first place was about. Everyone was distracted, go there create an alibi, let people see you and Kyron, and slip out with out being seen.
I do beleive these people saw Kyron and the SM that day, and I beleive that was part of the plan. No one was expecting a crime to take place so no one was paying attention, these folks saw both of them that day because that was the plan, to create an alibi. People hide in plain sight all the time, I have always heard the best place to hide a leaf is in a tree, So I apply the same concept here. The best place to commit a crime would be in plain sight in a crowd. JMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eyewitness testimony carries tons of weight, but unfortunately, it is fallible because we are human. People can SWEAR to what they've seen and what they believe is the truth, but there are many cases in which an innocent has been executed based on eyewitness testimony only to be exonerated post-mortem.

 

[Jaxson]

Okay this is driving me insane.... Awhile back I was watching Glenn Beck and on his show he was talking about how things happen right in front of you and you never see it, of course he was talking about the way the government is slowly taking away are freedoms and we dont see it, but that is not my point. He showed a short video of a bunch of people loading an air plane, and the engine was running on the plane there was a lot going on in the video, then he took and played the same video but removed something from the video and asked if you could see what it was, and honestly you could not. He called it something, but I cant remember what it was called it was something about organised chaos and how our brains only focus on what is important, he talked about how this is how people can commit crimes in plain sight without being seen. I am convinced that is what happened here, I think that there was so much "organised chaos" that no one payed attention to a certain person or person's, and I think that was what the whole point of going to the science fair in the first place was about. Everyone was distracted, go there create an alibi, let people see you and Kyron, and slip out with out being seen.
I do beleive these people saw Kyron and the SM that day, and I beleive that was part of the plan. No one was expecting a crime to take place so no one was paying attention, these folks saw both of them that day because that was the plan, to create an alibi. People hide in plain sight all the time, I have always heard the best place to hide a leaf is in a tree, So I apply the same concept here. The best place to commit a crime would be in plain sight in a crowd. JMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My problem with this is she would have to be very smart and with all the other things she has done that were not very smart it just doesn't fit.

She just wouldn't be able to guarantee that she wouldn't be noticed leaving with him in her truck.

It does make sense if it were someone unknown to people at the school to be that brazen. No one would be able to identify them by name if they were seen taking him.

If she kept him hidden until she was fairly sure she wasn't seen she could go back later and do something to him but that would be equally risky after it was already being investigated.

If she took him from the school she had no way of knowing until the bus came and he wasn't on it and the school was called and investigation began before she could feel safe that she wasn't spotted leaving with him.
If the school had called her right away she would have known they didn't see her leave with him but they didn't.

So I can't think it was planned a head of time by her. If it was an accident or a spur of the moment out of anger thing then she wouldn't have been planning an alibi.

If she did something to Kyron it was not planned in my opinion.

But someone else could have planned it because of the 'organized chaos' that would be involved at the school that day.

 

[Cher352]

Matt Shelby is not superintendent he is a spokesman for PPS, the superintendent is a woman...

snip-Portland Public Schools spokesman Matt Shelby said two teachers saw Kyron with his stepmother and thought the two left school together.

He said it was common for parents to pick up kids this way, so no suspicions were raised.
-end snip

http://arklatexhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=109355

That link doesn't work for me...anyone else have this problem??

 

[Jaxson]

That link doesn't work for me...anyone else have this problem??

Popped right up for me...

 

[Donjeta]

I saw the video of his classmate and he looked about Kyron's age. I didn't search far enough for the video, but maybe this link will give WS ppls a better idea of the child witness's age....

http://www.kptv.com/news/23842774/detail.html

Different child

Quoting opening post:

One person who has been asked again about what he saw is Skyline seventh-grader T.K., whose science fair project was on antimatter. He said investigators came back to interview him last week at his home.

“I just saw him (Kyron) in the gym, and I saw the truck out in the parking lot,” he said Wednesday. T.K. said Kyron was looking at other students’ science fair projects, seemed happy and was with friends.

 

[butterfly1978]

My problem with this is she would have to be very smart and with all the other things she has done that were not very smart it just doesn't fit.

She just wouldn't be able to guarantee that she wouldn't be noticed leaving with him in her truck.

It does make sense if it were someone unknown to people at the school to be that brazen. No one would be able to identify them by name if they were seen taking him.

If she kept him hidden until she was fairly sure she wasn't seen she could go back later and do something to him but that would be equally risky after it was already being investigated.

If she took him from the school she had no way of knowing until the bus came and he wasn't on it and the school was called and investigation began before she could feel safe that she wasn't spotted leaving with him.
If the school had called her right away she would have known they didn't see her leave with him but they didn't.

So I can't think it was planned a head of time by her. If it was an accident or a spur of the moment out of anger thing then she wouldn't have been planning an alibi.

If she did something to Kyron it was not planned in my opinion.

But someone else could have planned it because of the 'organized chaos' that would be involved at the school that day.

You make very good points, however she apparently was brave enough to try and hire a stranger to kill her husband, how did she not know he wouldn't turn her in? Apparently she didn't know MC very well but was brave enough to send sext messages, so to think that she is not brave enough to try this I dont see it. All of the above have not been proven of course BUT these type things aren't coming out about anyone else in the family.
Its not uncommon for people to beleive that they are smarter than they are, look at Casey Anthony, they think they want get caught, look at Misty and Ron they were brave enough to attempt to sell drugs to an undercover, and STILL think they can get off and theres video. These type of people are a special breed, I swear they are, they cant be human.
All the above is JMO!!!

 

[Cher352]

Popped right up for me...

Thanks...You must have fixed it...LOL!

I tried several times and kept getting page not found. Then once I saw you post I tried again and it went right to it....strange!

 

[Cher352]

You make very good points, however she apparently was brave enough to try and hire a stranger to kill her husband, how did she not know he wouldn't turn her in? Apparently she didn't know MC very well but was brave enough to send sext messages, so to think that she is not brave enough to try this I dont see it. All of the above have not been proven of course BUT these type things aren't coming out about anyone else in the family.
Its not uncommon for people to beleive that they are smarter than they are, look at Casey Anthony, they think they want get caught, look at Misty and Ron they were brave enough to attempt to sell drugs to an undercover, and STILL think they can get off and theres video. These type of people are a special breed, I swear they are, they cant be human.
All the above is JMO!!!

Isn't the murder for hire thing still a he said, she said type thing?

 

[DairyGirl]

My problem with this is she would have to be very smart and with all the other things she has done that were not very smart it just doesn't fit.

She just wouldn't be able to guarantee that she wouldn't be noticed leaving with him in her truck.

It does make sense if it were someone unknown to people at the school to be that brazen. No one would be able to identify them by name if they were seen taking him.

If she kept him hidden until she was fairly sure she wasn't seen she could go back later and do something to him but that would be equally risky after it was already being investigated.

If she took him from the school she had no way of knowing until the bus came and he wasn't on it and the school was called and investigation began before she could feel safe that she wasn't spotted leaving with him.
If the school had called her right away she would have known they didn't see her leave with him but they didn't.

So I can't think it was planned a head of time by her. If it was an accident or a spur of the moment out of anger thing then she wouldn't have been planning an alibi.

If she did something to Kyron it was not planned in my opinion.

But someone else could have planned it because of the 'organized chaos' that would be involved at the school that day.

My theory is the hide in plain sight theory, too. As far as we know no one saw TH leave. As far as we know no on saw Kyron leave. So whether TH took him or somebody else did they were not seen. What is a person more likely to remember a kid walking out to their truck with his mother or a kid walking out with someone they didn't know, or even if they were known it was known that they didn't belong with the child. I think TH made very sure that no on saw her. I even think she may have thought about doing this before but worried that someone may have noticed her leave and called off the plan. She waited until she was positive that she saw no on look in her direction. The parking lot may have been empty. She may have been waiting outside for Kyron to follow her directions to meet her outside in a few minutes, but to me it is just as likely that they marched out purposely without being seen, as far as she knows. We don't know if anyone did see them leave. LE won't answer that question when it's asked but there may well be a witness that is keeping very quiet that TH didn't even notice watching her. We just don't know what LE knows but I think it's a lot more then we think.
For all intents and purposes TH thinks she got away. She may be right and no one saw them leave. Or she could be in for a big surprise.

 

[Jaxson]

You make very good points, however she apparently was brave enough to try and hire a stranger to kill her husband, how did she not know he wouldn't turn her in? Apparently she didn't know MC very well but was brave enough to send sext messages, so to think that she is not brave enough to try this I dont see it. All of the above have not been proven of course BUT these type things aren't coming out about anyone else in the family.
Its not uncommon for people to beleive that they are smarter than they are, look at Casey Anthony, they think they want get caught, look at Misty and Ron they were brave enough to attempt to sell drugs to an undercover, and STILL think they can get off and theres video. These type of people are a special breed, I swear they are, they cant be human.
All the above is JMO!!!

I guess I see those things as stupid not brave? In fact I think she may be a coward. She could have just killed Kaine herself if she were brave (although I am not sure that is brave either) and I don't think sexting is brave. Of course I am still not sure about the landscapers story. I need proof or for LE to say something. It is still he said/she said Le apparently has proof of the sexting so that's good enough for me. But I see that as stupid, not brave also. As far as nothing coming out about anyone but her...well she is keeping her mouth shut and the rest are talking about her only. It's possible they all have just as many 'skeletons' but they are not being singled out?

But brazen? yes maybe she was brazen enough to take Kyron and think no one would notice. Brazen would be a good word for everything she has done and all that she is being accused of by Kaine and Desiree and media, etc.

So I guess she could have planned it. How the heck did she hide him so well though?

 

[butterfly1978]

Isn't the murder for hire thing still a he said, she said type thing?

The short answer is yes, however we have to apply logic here...I dont think anyone is trying to frame Terri especially LE, they are trying to find a missing child, I dont think that Kaine just decided he would make up all this and take the baby away with out reason, and I dont think that a judge would issue a restraining order even temperary that takes a child away from its mother, and if its not true than why is she not fighting it saying hell no thats not true..... So techinically its not he said she said, its He said and she isnt disputing it.

 

[butterfly1978]

I guess I see those things as stupid not brave? In fact I think she may be a coward. She could have just killed Kaine herself if she were brave (although I am not sure that is brave either) and I don't think sexting is brave. Of course I am still not sure about the landscapers story. I need proof or for LE to say something. It is still he said/she said Le apparently has proof of the sexting so that's good enough for me. But I see that as stupid, not brave also. As far as nothing coming out about anyone but her...well she is keeping her mouth shut and the rest are talking about her only. It's possible they all have just as many 'skeletons' but they are not being singled out?

But brazen? yes maybe she was brazen enough to take Kyron and think no one would notice. Brazen would be a good word for everything she has done and all that she is being accused of by Kaine and Desiree and media, etc.

So I guess she could have planned it. How the heck did she hide him so well though?

Once again hidden in plain sight. Caylee was 15 house down from the Anthony home, and look at the thousands of people that searched for her. Jaycee Dugard was seen by many, Elizabeth Smart was still in the same city walking the streets.

 

[BeanE]

I'm positive I read an earlier newspaper report in which a friend of TH was quoted as saying that she had left the toddler with "the babysitter" that morning, but it was not a big deal (to her friend) that TH left her with a sitter. The friend was on Terri's side. I'm still looking for the article, but it's eluded me so far to find it again.

To the best of his (KH's) knowledge the toddler was with TH? Was he asked to say that by LE? Maybe LE doesn't want the babysitter pulled into it being such a valuable witness? As sleuthers, we can be merciless seeking out the truth.

And I want the truth, whether I am right or wrong in my current opinion.

Rumors that just won't die, despite lack of substantiation:

- the baby was with a babysitter

- two teachers said they saw Terri leave the school with Kyron

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My theory is the hide in plain sight theory, too. As far as we know no one saw TH leave. As far as we know no on saw Kyron leave. So whether TH took him or somebody else did they were not seen. What is a person more likely to remember a kid walking out to their truck with his mother or a kid walking out with someone they didn't know, or even if they were known it was known that they didn't belong with the child. I think TH made very sure that no on saw her. I even think she may have thought about doing this before but worried that someone may have noticed her leave and called off the plan. She waited until she was positive that she saw no on look in her direction. The parking lot may have been empty. She may have been waiting outside for Kyron to follow her directions to meet her outside in a few minutes, but to me it is just as likely that they marched out purposely without being seen, as far as she knows. We don't know if anyone did see them leave. LE won't answer that question when it's asked but there may well be a witness that is keeping very quiet that TH didn't even notice watching her. We just don't know what LE knows but I think it's a lot more then we think.
For all intents and purposes TH thinks she got away. She may be right and no one saw them leave. Or she could be in for a big surprise.

I think the "hide in plain sight" may work for a stranger as it did in Elizabeth Smart, Duggard and other who have just led little children away from a place and no one noticed at the time and found the child was missing after they had been gone for awhile. The person wouldn't have a personal connection to the person taken.

But I just don't see how Terri, who was known as Kyron's mom, could do the same. Not only was she known to be with Kyron and there would be others that would put two and two together just by merely seeing the two of them together but she also had volunteered at the school there for 2 years.

And now it does seem that Kyron was seen. So Kyron was noticed. The other 7th grade student said he saw Kyron with some of his friends when they were looking at the science exhibits. So now we know it isn't like no one noticed Kyron. It seems they did and I am sure there are others who saw him as well. The group of friends he was with when seen by the other student, I am sure has been interviewed at length.

This boy did say he saw Kyron without Terri and with his friends and then he did state he saw the pickup truck that morning but from the article I read last night he said LE told him not to say what time he saw the truck. So he simply could have remembered seeing the truck when he arrived at school at the start of the day. IMO, they are not wanting him to release the time because they are trying to put the heat on Terri but I am not sure that is working though.

I just don't see how she could have waited until she was positive no one would see her. How would she do that with absolutely perfect results? Kyron was inside the school and if she was outside or came in to get him to leave how would she be assured she wouldn't run into a soul? It seems to have been a day where people of all kinds filled that school. Now we have learned that Kyron was with his friends inside of the school and Terri wasnt with them.

IMO

 

[keeponsearching]

Please tell me if I am wrong, but didn't we hear Terri cell ping somewhere else at 8:45? Now if a classmate saw Kyron right before the bell rang ( when he headed to the electric project) ( I think they were suppose to meet up at 8:50 to separate in groups), how would it be possible for terri to still be there? I can't wait to get the times, and timeline. Maybe TH did have accomplice that got him out of school, and they met on SI..... Or maybe not. I think whoever got him out of school, just put a hat Kyron.... And they got lucky.

 

[BeanE]

Please tell me if I am wrong, but didn't we hear Terri cell ping somewhere else at 8:45? Now if a classmate saw Kyron right before the bell rang ( when he headed to the electric project) ( I think they were suppose to meet up at 8:50 to separate in groups), how would it be possible for terri to still be there? I can't wait to get the times, and timeline. Maybe TH did have accomplice that got him out of school, and they met on SI..... Or maybe not. I think whoever got him out of school, just put a hat Kyron.... And they got lucky.

BBM. We've seen cell ping info from unnamed sources that are not involved in the investigation, courtesy of Willamette Week, and picked up by other media outlets.

 

[BeanE]

Here are the two existing threads we have for theories on how the perp got Kyron out of the school:


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108596"]If the plan was to be seen at the school..... - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107254"]How to get yourself & a child out of the school and into a vehicle? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Chewy]

I think the "hide in plain sight" may work for a stranger as it did in Elizabeth Smart, Duggard and other who have just led little children away from a place and no one noticed at the time and found the child was missing after they had been gone for awhile. The person wouldn't have a personal connection to the person taken.

But I just don't see how Terri, who was known as Kyron's mom, could do the same. Not only was she known to be with Kyron and there would be others that would put two and two together just by merely seeing the two of them together but she also had volunteered at the school there for 2 years.

And now it does seem that Kyron was seen. So Kyron was noticed. The other 7th grade student said he saw Kyron with some of his friends when they were looking at the science exhibits. So now we know it isn't like no one noticed Kyron. It seems they did and I am sure there are others who saw him as well. The group of friends he was with when seen by the other student, I am sure has been interviewed at length.

This boy did say he saw Kyron without Terri and with his friends and then he did state he saw the pickup truck that morning but from the article I read last night he said LE told him not to say what time he saw the truck. So he simply could have remembered seeing the truck when he arrived at school at the start of the day. IMO, they are not wanting him to release the time because they are trying to put the heat on Terri but I am not sure that is working though.

I just don't see how she could have waited until she was positive no one would see her. How would she do that with absolutely perfect results? Kyron was inside the school and if she was outside or came in to get him to leave how would she be assured she wouldn't run into a soul? It seems to have been a day where people of all kinds filled that school. Now we have learned that Kyron was with his friends inside of the school and Terri wasnt with them.

IMO

I agree with this, I just posted something similar. The one thing that makes me think TH might not be involved is that on a day like that with so many people roaming around it is bizarre that she felt she could chance not being seen. For all she could suspect, someone could have seen him from the window.

The other possibility is that she had a relationship of some sort, (being a volunteer for 2 years) with a maintenance or groundskeeper or even a woman in the school. And this person is the one who got him out of the school.