17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #24

[mercuriod]

Her statement was reported to the media three weeks later. That does not mean she stayed silent that whole time. I don't recall anything about when she actually made that statement or when she first called police.

But if she failed to try to call Trayvon back or call her parents or tell a friend or call police or anything, after what she heard on the phone, with Trayvon, I do find it odd. (Although I do seem to recall that she tried to call Trayvon back and got no answer).

Nevertheless, in any case, there will be discrepancies that can never be explained.

However, I do have a supposition. She may not have realized the seriousness of the situation until after she found Trayvon had been killed. She may have been puzzled, even worried, but not to the extent that she would break that wall of silence kids often have when it comes to involving parents or adult authority figures in things that happen to them. Then, after she realized he was killed following what she heard, she was overcome and had to be hospitalized, perhaps even feeling guilt that she didn't do more, or whatever. But, that is pure speculation.

I am interested in discrepancies and they need to be examined but again, I look at the facts as a whole and to me, they point to Zimmerman as the probable aggressor, not Trayvon.

Again a post that needs more than one thank you :tyou: :tyou: :tyou:

 

[mercuriod]

I have a feeling that his records are clean.
I too wanted to understand how he got a gun if he is so overzealous.

There is no "overzealous" check mark" on the application for a Concealed to Carry application.

 

[Karmady]

The acronym for Mark O'Mara is perhaps correct, but is it respectful to his position as a defense attorney on this case? I guess it may depend on how one feels about defense attorneys. How about MO? But there's a Three Stooges movie coming out. That may be a worse acronym now that I think about it.

Ha! If he was given a list of things he'd ever been called to pick from, I'm guessing MOM would be among the most respectful lol. Lawyers typically have some pretty thick skin.

 

[momshrink]

Nyquill and fatigue are working against me, so I will say good night and let the night shift take over.
Goodnight. fftobed:

 

[suspicious1]

So you think he got out of his car, went between the buildings where there are plenty of windows (where he can be seen to start a fight) and put his hands on Trayvon? I can’t see him doing that.
I can see that Travon was either afraid of the man who followed him and was going to SHOW him, or was Already Pizzed that he was not in Miami with his GF but up there with Dad, and now this guy is on his behind and he said to himself I am going to stop the MF.... he did not care if there are windows up there.
:moo::moo::moo:


THE GF - she signed a report with LE then the media got on it.
Somewhere between the third week and the first day a lot did happen.
and the first person to discover her was Mr. Martin.

I once was an office manager for a law firm 5 floors of lawyers.
they wanted to pay to send me to law school I was in my 20"s.

You are potraying

 

[Steft50]

Dont want one, dont need one.

Hot Da** we agree on something!!! :woohoo:

 

[songline]

Quoting myself in response...

You have a point.
but do I think that is an often scenario NO.
OK bad kid can come from law abiding families. Got me!

 

[csziggy]

Her statement was reported to the media three weeks later. That does not mean she stayed silent that whole time. I don't recall anything about when she actually made that statement or when she first called police.

But if she failed to try to call Trayvon back or call her parents or tell a friend or call police or anything, after what she heard on the phone, with Trayvon, I do find it odd. (Although I do seem to recall that she tried to call Trayvon back and got no answer).

Nevertheless, in any case, there will be discrepancies that can never be explained.

However, I do have a supposition. She may not have realized the seriousness of the situation until after she found Trayvon had been killed. She may have been puzzled, even worried, but not to the extent that she would break that wall of silence kids often have when it comes to involving parents or adult authority figures in things that happen to them. Then, after she realized he was killed following what she heard, she was overcome and had to be hospitalized, perhaps even feeling guilt that she didn't do more, or whatever. But, that is pure speculation.

I am interested in discrepancies and they need to be examined but again, I look at the facts as a whole and to me, they point to Zimmerman as the probable aggressor, not Trayvon.

From a source that may not be considered MSM, I read that she did not realize she was the last person to talk to Trayvon until his wake:

The day after Trayvon's wake, his girlfriend, who is a minor so RadarOnline.com won't be disclosing her identity, was emotionally distraught upon learning she was the last person who talked to him.

"The day after his wake, Trayvon's family attorney, Benjamin Crump, who had been conducting his own extensive investigation because cops had determined the shooting was in self defense, told Trayvon's girlfriend she was the last person to talk to him," a source close to the situation tells RadarOnline.com. "George had reviewed Trayvon's cell phone bill and it was revealed that she was on the phone with him in the moments before Trayvon was shot.

"His girlfriend became absolutely inconsolable and had trouble breathing so her mother took her to a nearby hospital emergency room. She had never seen her daughter this upset before, ever. She had a battery of tests, including an EKG, and was there for over 12 hours. Doctors ultimately told her that she was going to be ok, but advised her mother to keep a close eye on her and try to minimize the stress around her."
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/03/trayvon-martin-girlfriend-hospitalized-following-death

 

[mercuriod]

So you think he got out of his car, went between the buildings where there are plenty of windows (where he can be seen to start a fight) and put his hands on Trayvon? I can’t see him doing that.
I can see that Travon was either afraid of the man who followed him and was going to SHOW him, or was Already Pizzed that he was not in Miami with his GF but up there with Dad, and now this guy is on his behind and he said to himself I am going to stop the MF.... he did not care if there are windows up there.
:moo::moo::moo:


THE GF - she signed a report with LE then the media got on it.
Somewhere between the third week and the first day a lot did happen.
and the first person to discover her was Mr. Martin.

I once was an office manager for a law firm 5 floors of lawyers.
they wanted to pay to send me to law school I was in my 20"s.

And that is a sad, sad, sad commentary on the Sanford PD, they had his phone all they had to do was look at the last call on his phone, and sadly it took the father of the victim doing their job for them to "discover" her.

 

[Boytwnmom]

if, as many of us believe, GZ was attempting to detain Trayvon to prevent this a$%hole from getting away, he was engaged in unlawful behavior and it doesn't matter if he was losing the fight he precipitated, which there is no evidence for anyway. There is no credible evidence of any actual injuries to GZ and even if he got injured he's the responsible party, from the moment he saw Trayvon, called 911, followed him with a gun and sought to detain him, he's the one in control, who is going after another person based upon a completely erroneous belief that Trayvon was a criminal. I highly doubt that evidence will show that it was GZ screaming. It doesn't even make sense-the person who was screaming was clearly the person who was shot and killed, hence the screaming suddenly stopped. I'm sure GZ yelled at some point but he didn't scream.

But in a court of law the SA will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Witness saw TM on top of GZ and that it was GZ that screamed. That right there is reasonable doubt.

 

[octobermoon]

based on what I've read, his record would be "clean." In cases where he was merely arrested and not charged and convicted, the arrest has no legal significance. For the plea deal, it looks like the anger management was part of a diversion. In that case, his plea would have been on record until the diversion program was successfully completed. Once it was successfully completed, the disposition of the case would have officially been changed to "dismissed" and would be the same as an arrest with no charge or conviction for purposes of legal significance.

An RO in a domestic dispute is usually a civil RO. While you may not be permitted to own a weapon while it is in place, once the RO expires you can get your weapon back. jmo

Thank you for your answer.

 

[beach]

I am going to try to explain this the best way I know how.

Zimmerman will most certainly claim that he was within his rights citing the SYG law. In the legal world, that is considered an affirmative defense.

Think of it this way, insanity is also an affirmative defense. If a defendant claims they are innocent by reason of insanity, the burden shifts to the defendant to PROVE that they are insane. Same thing with SYG. The defendant has to put on evidence (in this case it will have to be testimony) that supports GZ's claim that he felt his life was in imminent danger, so therefore he had a right to shoot.

Ack! I realized I left out a very important part here!

This is how it will play out -

Mark O'Mara will at some point claim immunity. (claiming that GZ is immune from prosecution per the SYG law). Then the judge will order an evidentiary hearing. Kind of a mini-bench trial. No jury, just a bench trial where the judge will hear testimony and rebuttal by the prosecutors. The burden is much lower than "beyond a reasonable doubt". The judge's burden will be considered by a "preponderance of the evidence". The judge will weigh the evidence presented and decide if GZ is immune from further prosecution.

IF she finds that he meets the burden, the case will be thrown out. It will NEVER go before a jury.

IF she finds that he does not meet the burden, then GZ will be prosecuted and there will be a jury trial. He can still claim self-defense and present his claim before a jury of his peers.


This is actually very good news for GZ. He gets 2 bites of the apple, so to speak. Even if the judge rules against him at the evidentiary hearing, he may still sway the jury and convince them he was acting in self-defense.

I am linking to a blog but it explains it all very well. At trial, the burden of proof will be on prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt this was not self-defense because of SYG.

"Such a defendant would still be free at trial to plead his claim of immunity to the jury. At trial the burden of proof is exclusively on the prosecution to establish the guilt of the defendant beyond and to the exclusion of a reasonable doubt."
<modsnip>

jjenny, I had to remove the blog link but please read my 2nd post above.

You are missing a very, very important part here. The evidentiary hearing is everything to GZ. If the judge finds during the evidentiary hearing that GZ met the burden of proof in that hearing, there will be no trial. Game over.

All I know to tell you for sure is that it is an affirmative defense. The rules are different.

I'm done trying to explain it. Maybe gitana or AZ can help clarify better than I have been able to.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Just because you are a member of LE does not make you law abiding! Actually, some times, it makes you quite the opposite.

MOO

 

[gitana1]

So you think he got out of his car, went between the buildings where there are plenty of windows (where he can be seen to start a fight) and put his hands on Trayvon? I can’t see him doing that.
I can see that Travon was either afraid of the man who followed him and was going to SHOW him, or was Already Pizzed that he was not in Miami with his GF but up there with Dad, and now this guy is on his behind and he said to himself I am going to stop the MF.... he did not care if there are windows up there.
:moo::moo::moo:


THE GF - she signed a report with LE then the media got on it.
Somewhere between the third week and the first day a lot did happen.
and the first person to discover her was Mr. Martin.

I once was an office manager for a law firm 5 floors of lawyers.
they wanted to pay to send me to law school I was in my 20"s.

First, I want to say I appreciate how you stay in the house and polite and cool even at times when the anti-Zimmerman folk out number those who believe him. That's why I love you! But yes, I do think he put his hands on Trayvon first. I think he was pumped and not thinking of the consequences. Which is why he left his vehicle contrary to dispatcher instructions/suggestions and why he followed some guy at night, who he assumed was a criminal, instead of waiting for LE.

 

[Steft50]

And that is a sad, sad, sad commentary on the Sanford PD, they had his phone all they had to do was look at the last call on his phone, and sadly it took the father of the victim doing their job for them to "discover" her.

If IIRC it wasn't just the girl friend that said something like this. Didn't a couple of the witnesses claim their statements to the PD were not correct and when trying to contact someone about it PD never returned the calls?

 

[LinasK]

What about MO'M?

That's good, because at first I thought we were referring to Zimmerman's mother...

 

[songline]

There is absolutely nothing that the Miami Police Department could have done for her if she showed up and told them that.

They would do absolutly nothing when a boy is missing?:waitasec:
He was talking to her -phone went dead - cant reach him at all.

 

[LolaMoon08]

That's good, because at first I thought we were referring to Zimmerman's mother...

Me too!! I almost have to watch a show that I never watch because MOM was going to be on and it was Mark O'Mara... :floorlaugh:

 

[suspicious1]

So you think he got out of his car, went between the buildings where there are plenty of windows (where he can be seen to start a fight) and put his hands on Trayvon? I can’t see him doing that.
I can see that Travon was either afraid of the man who followed him and was going to SHOW him, or was Already Pizzed that he was not in Miami with his GF but up there with Dad, and now this guy is on his behind and he said to himself I am going to stop the MF.... he did not care if there are windows up there.
:moo::moo::moo:


THE GF - she signed a report with LE then the media got on it.
Somewhere between the third week and the first day a lot did happen.
and the first person to discover her was Mr. Martin.

I once was an office manager for a law firm 5 floors of lawyers.
they wanted to pay to send me to law school I was in my 20"s.

You are trying to portray Tray as being this Billy bad azz kid but there has been no evidence of that. OK, you think he smoked some weed and he might've stole some jewelry but neither of those things would indicate to me that he was this Billy bad azz kid.

You can see Tray acting this way but not GZ? I am afraid to think why.....

Is that what they call profiling? Just asking

 

[mercuriod]

At 17 if my BF did not call me back and I could not reach him.
I think I would not be able to breathe. (that is puppy love are you kidding me)
I would be calling his phone over and over (maybe she did)
I would go to the police station to talk to someone.
That would have flipped me out, even if I did not want to tell my parents,
I would do something.
Something is not right no matter who says what....

Times have changed since you were 17, teenagers have changed since you were 17, they have been exposed (via media) to so much more than you could have even imagined when you were 17. For better or worse they are more "calloused" than you were at 17, they have seen and been exposed to so much more of the world than you even knew existed when you were 17.