17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #25

[LiveLaughLuv]

GM
I was also troubled by how Trayvon was found, especially with 2 witnesses stating Zimmerman was found "straddling" Martin.

So either, Trayvon was on Zimmerman, got shot and fell forward, and Zimmerman got from underneath him... or Trayvon got shot while standing, and fell literally face forward. But what would be really, really bad, if Zimmerman, shot Trayvon, basically the way his body was found, will having him pinned to the ground, face down. Once again, forensics can prove if Trayvon was shot in the back or not.

It's already been said, Trayvon was shot in the chest...GZ was seen straddling the teen, hands on his back...never tried to render aid but was able to reholster his weapon...I still feel as if GZ stood over his trophy...he didn't let another *advertiser censored**hole get away...he deemed him a criminal not knowing this teen at all...

Then when GZ said, he's coming toward me, Trayvon was yards from his home and there is where GZ confronted Trayvon I believe he cut
Trayvon off at one of those walk throughs...had he just observed from a distance Trayvon would have made it to his door..That's a tragedy in itself, so close to home, yet so far away...thanks to George Zimmerman, the gatekeeper at Twin Lakes...:jail:

 

[Concerned Papa]

No, she told them about the issue and it was up to them what to do with the information.

No Papa in the status hearing she called on Friday, she informed O'Mara that he would have to file a motion asking for her to be removed so it sounds like that's what he is doing now.

OK, Thanks.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

GRACE: “In a case like this when you are confronted with force — let’s just say for argument’s sake Zimmerman’s story is true, a 17-year-old hits him. Standing your ground, is he allowed under the law to shoot him dead?”

COREY: “Nancy, our laws are very clear that it has to be a forcible felony and that a reasonable person would have to believe that deadly force is necessary as opposed to just physical force, fighting back and that sort of thing. I’ve prosecuted a woman who shot her husband and killed him because he slapped her, and we argued that was not deadly force and she was convicted and sent to state prison.”

Corey made two very clear points here.

The first is that, in order for "stand your ground" to work, the dead person must have been in the process of committing a "forcible felony" when the struggle happened. In other words, Trayvon needed to be engaged in a crime such as an assult on Zimmerman.We now know from the probable cause affadavit that Corey is using a statement from the friend Trayvon was speaking with on the phone at the time his confrontation with Zimmerman started.According to that witness, Zimmerman approached Trayvon, which means Trayvon would not have been engaged in a felony at the time the struggle started.

Secondly, it appears from the charge that Corey simply isn't convinced that whatever happened between Zimmerman and Trayvon justified the use of deadly force. Maybe she will argue that Zimmerman could have protected himself with some lesser level of self-defense.She mentioned the example of the woman who was slapped by her husband and retaliated with a gunshot. That women was convicted because Corey convinced a jury that she wasn't justified in using deadly force.Of course, that is a very subjective call. I would expect Zimmerman's attorney to argue that Trayvon was so aggressive that Zimmerman feared for his life and, in the heat of the moment, didn't see any other way out other than to pull out his gun and fire.

It will all play out in court. But for all the armchair detectives out there, these are two points worth considering.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...ly-force-physical-force-second-degree-murder#


I don't believe GZ was in fear of Trayvon...he had a loaded weapon and his intent in his mentality shows his motive...

I do hope whoever hears this case as jurors, will use common sense and critical thinking...This will be a trial to watch...

 

[SuziQ]

Is this Bryan Ansley the same one that has been brought up in the Jennifer Kesse case, that name has even been brought up on this board in regards to Jennifer's case. I don't know what we can post about him but just do a google search. :what:

Nothing I can link to, but others appear to have made the connection that he is indeed the same Bryan Ansley.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Nothing I can link to, but others appear to have made the connection that he is indeed the same Bryan Ansley.

Wow! I googled him!

BTW, Congrats on reaching over 32,000 posts! You go SuziQ!

wm

 

[CathyinTexas]

Send me GZ's medical reports, TM's autopsy report, and crime scene forensics report ... then I'll let you know.

If it happened as GZ said, it would fall under SYG, imo. I do not believe it happened the way he said, and it disturbs me greatly that he had no regard for human life, regardless if it could have happened like he said. I know from the conversation from the dispatcher that he knew Trayvon was a kid (his words)

 

[grammieto5]

:rofl:

yeah. they got him there on that one. it seems he did finally agree that effin' goon was probably not affectionate. :rolling:

he really put his neck out for GZ, though. why would he do that?
do people really think he did that for some sort of gravy train?

do you think JO regrets sticking his neck out?

And I wonder why he had to quit his job to defend GZ., this makes no sense to me. I hope his 17 year old daughter's mom is still working.

And WHY would JO mentioned GZ drinking????

 

[CathyinTexas]

Good morning Rob...BBM

Trayvon was found face down with hands and arms underneath his body..How do you suppose he got into that position?

I am curious for the trajectory of that bullet will tell the ME alot about Trayvon's shot to the chest..but I wonder how did Trayvon die face down, hand and arms under his body...what does that suggest? Not being snarky for I believe you are onto the nuts and bolts of the 'kill' shot...

I suspect that GZ put him in that position because witnesses saw him straddling the body with his hands on Trayvon. jmo

 

[Velouria]

And I wonder why he had to quit his job to defend GZ., this makes no sense to me. I hope his 17 year old daughter's mom is still working.

And WHY would JO mentioned GZ drinking????

I know I've either read or seen an interview with JO where he said he did not quit his job, but I'd have to track down the link.

Let's hope he's better at that job than he is as GZ's spokesperson, otherwise he should start dusting off his resume ASAP.

JMO

 

[Isabelle]

Send me GZ's medical reports, TM's autopsy report, and crime scene forensics report ... then I'll let you know.

Desperately want those documents, unfortunately I think some one is just as desperate in not wanting them released!

 

[Isabelle]

I do not...:what:

After reading the probable cause affidavit, it was just as I suspected..GZ state of mind is in the forefront...I don't believe this to be a SYG issue, I believe he hunted TM down and deemed him a criminal as soon as he saw this lone teen walking HIS community...His mentality of a disappointed cop, is front and center...I certainly hope if a jury gets this, they use common sense and critical thinking..TM should be alive today, if not for GZ...

Justice for Trayvon Martin

Agree, GZ has some issues that must be explored.

 

[Isabelle]

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf

In this document it states that the call taker's suggestion to not follow is not a 'lawful order" that Zimmerman would be required to follow.

No, it's not an order, but I would bet that most people with common sense would have stopped, unless another's life/well being was in danger.

 

[belle3]

Media lawyers: Unseal the Zimmerman court file
10:16 a.m. EST, April 16, 2012|

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...20416_1_media-companies-attorneys-mark-nejame

 

[Isabelle]

Good morning Rob...BBM

Trayvon was found face down with hands and arms underneath his body..How do you suppose he got into that position?

I am curious for the trajectory of that bullet will tell the ME alot about Trayvon's shot to the chest..but I wonder how did Trayvon die face down, hand and arms under his body...what does that suggest? Not being snarky for I believe you are onto the nuts and bolts of the 'kill' shot...

My guess is they were never both on the ground fighting. Trayvon was shot in the chest while upright and trying to push the gun away, screaming for help and fell forward with his arms under him after being killed.

 

[grammieto5]

My guess is they were never both on the ground fighting. Trayvon was shot in the chest while upright and trying to push the gun away, screaming for help and fell forward with his arms under him after being killed.

I've been thinking about this. I wonder if Trayvon fell on top of GZ and GZ had to slide out from under Trayvon, but if that is how it happened wouldn't
GZ have blood on his clothes ?? or did Trayvon after being shot just fall on the ground, not even touching GZ, but then if that is how it happened why would GZ be on top of Trayon, was GZ sitting on Trayvon's back???

 

[badme102]

Zimmerman is going to have to folks to believe that, he had his gun on him, but it was holstered, and while he was getting the thrashing of his life, he was able to un-holster his weapon and strike Treyvon dead center in the chest from underneath him with 1 shot.

Now the thing is, at such close proximity, Trayvon would have GSR on his hoodie. I think how much so will tell us alot about this case. Now a 9mm doesn't put out as much, say a .45, but its going to be difficult to explain how he got off such a great shot at Trayvon's chest, at the angle Trayvon was supposedly on top of him. Just picture your own self laying down, and envision someone on top of you, they would not be chest to chest with you, it would be more of a 45-90 degree angle, especially someone who is 6'3, with longer arms. Now imagine how difficult in a struggle for you to release a gunshot, right in the center of their chest. IMO

Now think how much easier it would be... if instead of the person on top of you... if you were on top of that person. That's why the angle of the bullet as well will tell alot of this case. An upward angle, through his aorta, will support Zimmerman's claim. A perfect shot, straight through his chest, right out his back at the same angle, will suggest Trayvon was shot while laying down. IMO

Great info, thanks!

BBM
If the GSW in TM's chest is at an upward angle, as you say, it might support that Zimmerman was "below" Trayvon, but it definitely doesn't support GZ's claim of getting beaten by TM.
There could be several possible reasons why GZ was on the ground and shot 'up' to TM, if that is even the case.

 

[Nana46]

Not really off topic but a heads up: Sosueme just posted that another thread will be opened in Sound off forum.

 

[2goldfish]

GM
I was also troubled by how Trayvon was found, especially with 2 witnesses stating Zimmerman was found "straddling" Martin.

So either, Trayvon was on Zimmerman, got shot and fell forward, and Zimmerman got from underneath him... or Trayvon got shot while standing, and fell literally face forward. But what would be really, really bad, if Zimmerman, shot Trayvon, basically the way his body was found, will having him pinned to the ground, face down. Once again, forensics can prove if Trayvon was shot in the back or not.

I wondered if poor trayvon was trying to crawl away from GZ in his dying moment.

do we know if he died/lost consciousness/whatever immediately? I havent seen anything saying so.

perhaps GZ turned him over, still thinking he was "[not letting] this one get away"?

perhaps in fact trayvon was on top when shot - this does not necessarily mean GZ was telling the full truth - I believe trayvon was fighting back after GZ put his hands on him to detain him...I think it all went to hell when GZ realised this one wasnt gonna just shut up and do as he was told...

although I find it VERY unlikely that GZ managed to unholster with trayvon on top.....I'll tell ya right now from personal experience (and from working many midnights in restaurants therefore seeing many many drunken fights) that when you are having the hell beat out of you, you DO NOT fiddle around at your waist or anywhere else....you cover your face & head best you can for the obvious reason (and if GZ was truly having his head bashed into concrete, that makes the idea of fiddling with a holster just ludicrous..)...while simultaneously (sp?) trying to get the so-and-so OFF of you....maybe someone trained differently would do differently although I've never personally seen it.

heart-rendingly with the evidence I currently have, I think the most likely thing is that trayvon was shot with GZ on top of him, and he was found facedown because he was still trying to crawl away...

 

[rbrnmw2]

Exactly! If there is no arrest would they bother to preserve any evidence? What if the only evidence is from Trayvon's autoposy and that evidence does not match what GZ says happened?

The position of Trayvon's body has always bothered me I really wonder if he was shot in the back
MOO:moo:

 

[Steft50]

JMO/IMO, etc..
Whatever their reason for ignoring the fact that an unarmed minor was stalked/followed, shot, and died, they are now in CYA mode.

When I read that document, I laughed out loud. How pathetic is it, that they are calling a 911 Dispatcher a "call taker"??? The "call taker", must have an actual professional job title. I'm betting it's something like 911 Specialist, or 911 Dispatcher....

Maybe they are hoping to sell it that you can legally ignore a "call taker".

I guess we should give them bonus point for creativity, but if (when)there is a lawsuit, their attempt at self protection will be pretty transparent.

At this point in time I think my favorite SPD attitude is that it's legal and seeminly ok to follow an unarmed teen thru a housing area while not being a police officer, but it's considered stalking when its the media following city employees. One or the other folks, can't be both.