17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[grandmaj]

I'm guessing here but it appears to come up on many records. An attorney will have to weigh in but I believe it COULD be the hold until a judge is seen within 24 hours with the actual determination on whether there is sufficient evidence to hold on XYZ charges.

But this is a strictly a guess as to the AMA hold.

Does this make sense? In other words when arrested the judge had ordered that there was sufficient evidence for the charge of Murder in the Second Degree.

But there had to be some evidence provided to get the warrant for arrest. So it is a hold without bond until the arrested person goes before a judge. Again that is just my humble opinion and guess based on purely unscientific/legal research of a bunch of criminal records.

Maybe it is a No bond hold??????

 

[grandmaj]

Not all Utube are allowed. News media of course. What we won't allow is independent people spouting off or political/racial/religious group types of Utube. It would have to meet the criteria of our thread rules.

 

[Desdemona]

I don't know of a single neighborhood watch program that endorses its members to carry firearms, but here is a link to the Seminole County Sheriff's office page dedicated to their program if you'd like to call and ask them for specifics.

http://www.seminolesheriff.org/external/InfoSitepage.aspx?pageID=71

BBM

"Endorses?" :waitasec:

In my original reply to GrandmaJ, I simply pointed out the distinction about patrols being warned by the national NW organization not to carry weapons, since the article she shared was a little confusing IMO as to the reporter's words versus the official text.

As for the SCSO site, I did indicate in my reply to your post that I've already searched without luck for the NW guidelines for Seminole County; obviously I've already looked there -- thanks anyway. I asked you for a resource because your post seemed to state as fact something I've still not been able to confirm. No worries. JMO

 

[PaintingAnemone]

BBM

A key component in my response to your question would be a logical answer to the question posed at the end of this video.

How long does it take to walk 317 feet?

That brings up a scenario that I keep turning over in my mind about how the confrontation occurred, and would like to run past you, since you seem to have a good grasp of the timeline and location. Zimmerman claims that he walked straight across on the cut-through, got an address, and then was assaulted by Trayvon on his way back ON the cut-through. Trayvon allegedly punches Zimmerman, who goes down and a fight ensues. Yet the crime scene was much further up on the pathway that ran between the townhouses, and not on the cut-through where Zimmerman says he was attacked. Also, considering that Trayvon headed up the path running perpendicular to the cut-through, wouldn't Zimmerman have looked that way and seen Trayvon walking up the path when he crossed it the first time? It looks very open in the pictures, and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of hiding places. The alternative is that Trayvon decided to hang out nearby, hiding and talking to his girlfriend on the telephone, waiting for Zimmerman to come back just so he could confront the man he just tried to evade, which doesn't feel very sound to me.

This leads me to suspect that instead of the path Zimmerman claims to have taken along the cut-through, that he may have actually circled around the front of the townhouses and went between them further up to cut Martin off. According to the gf, Martin thought he had lost him, which means Martin might have felt safe enough to go back to walking instead of moving quickly. But then later in the call, he supposedly tells her Zimmerman is "back." That may be the moment when he sees Zimmerman coming at him from the front, and then speaks to him right before the altercation starts and the phone cuts off.

 

[Muttley]

Why would 'John" tell GZ to stop? What does 'John' mean by this?

"The guy on the bottom who I believe had a red sweater on was yelling to me help, help, and I told him to stop and I was calling 911. I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point"


http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannit...#ixzz1sMEBbZmS

That is a great question and observation Isabelle! Now that you point it out, I am reading into what this witness was expressing.

IMO the witness is saying at one point he is being asked for help by the guy in the "red sweater" (GZ). Then the witness said "I told him to stop and I was calling 911", who did he tell to stop? The way the witness sees it, a guys is asking for help, maybe he is underneath but holding on while the other guy (on top) is trying to run. The witness will not engage in the fight but maybe means "I told that guy to stop and let it go because I'm calling 911, let the police take care of this". So just because someone is not on top doesn't mean they are not the aggressor. I never picture either of them with their backs on the ground at any time, always on their feet and moving and maybe with GZ holding onto TM's clothing and tying to drag him down, and TM trying to get away and run. Of course TM was trying to break free from this stranger to him, so he may have (rightfully so) punched and kicked and kneed this guy who grabbed him and was trying to force him to walk somewhere. again IMO...

 

[RANCH]

Any Florida attorneys on board who could explain the second charge on Zimmerman's booking sheet?

What "booking sheet" do you refer to? The arrest warrant or "issue capias"? And maybe you want to know about FL 775.087(1)?

 

[GutFeeling!]

If the neighbors who saw the injuries continue to remain anonymous, can they be made to testify if there is a court case?

Yes.


Great to see some friendly names from days gone by here xoxox

 

[grandmaj]

OK a brilliant Admin just provided me with the following.

General Bill by Dockery (CO-SPONSORS) Fasano; Argenziano; Lynn; Crist



Anti-Murder Act/Violent Offenders [LPCC]: cites act as "Anti-Murder Act"; prohibits bail or other pretrial release for specified violent felony offenders of special concern & certain arrested persons pending probation-violation or community-control-violation hearing; provides for notification to criminal justice system of offender's status as said offender of special concern or other specified offender; revises worksheet computations of Criminal Punishment Code, etc. Amends FS.






SB Substituted for

CS/HB 29 By Safety & Security Council and Adams




Effective Date: 03/12/2007

 

[LynnM]

I have not been able to locate the Seminole County Neighborhood Watch Guidelines that address that issue... do you have it? TIA

I found the Sanford Police Department Neighborhood Watch Program guidelines:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/NWProgramHandbook.pdf

 

[grandmaj]

Here is the Citizens on Patrol

http://www.seminolesheriff.org/external/InfoSitepage.aspx?pageID=186

 

[badme102]

Question from left field from me:

Does anyone know if GZ is a smoker?

 

[jjenny]

"The guy on the bottom who I believe had a red sweater on was yelling to me help, help, and I told him to stop and I was calling 911. I got upstairs and looked down, the person that was on top beating up the other guy was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point"


http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannit...#ixzz1sMEBbZmS

That is a great question and observation Isabelle! Now that you point it out, I am reading into what this witness was expressing.

IMO the witness is saying at one point he is being asked for help by the guy in the "red sweater" (GZ). Then the witness said "I told him to stop and I was calling 911", who did he tell to stop? The way the witness sees it, a guys is asking for help, maybe he is underneath but holding on while the other guy (on top) is trying to run. The witness will not engage in the fight but maybe means "I told that guy to stop and let it go because I'm calling 911, let the police take care of this". So just because someone is not on top doesn't mean they are not the aggressor. I never picture either of them with their backs on the ground at any time, always on their feet and moving and maybe with GZ holding onto TM's clothing and tying to drag him down, and TM trying to get away and run. Of course TM was trying to break free from this stranger to him, so he may have (rightfully so) punched and kicked and kneed this guy who grabbed him and was trying to force him to walk somewhere. again IMO...

He says he saw a guy in red on the bottom, and then when he looked from his window the guy who had been beating the guy on the bottom was dead. So the interpretation you came up with makes no sense. There is absolutely nothing in what he says that indicates the guy on the bottom was the aggressor. The guy on the bottom was screaming for help and was being beat up.

 

[RANCH]

Question from left field from me:

Does anyone know if GZ is a smoker?

Are you asking if he smokes cigarettes?

 

[badme102]

Are you asking if he smokes cigarettes?

Sorry, yes, cigarettes. I know it may seem like a weird question but I was just curious.

 

[Concerned Papa]

That brings up a scenario that I keep turning over in my mind about how the confrontation occurred, and would like to run past you, since you seem to have a good grasp of the timeline and location. Zimmerman claims that he walked straight across on the cut-through, got an address, and then was assaulted by Trayvon on his way back ON the cut-through. Trayvon allegedly punches Zimmerman, who goes down and a fight ensues. Yet the crime scene was much further up on the pathway that ran between the townhouses, and not on the cut-through where Zimmerman says he was attacked. Also, considering that Trayvon headed up the path running perpendicular to the cut-through, wouldn't Zimmerman have looked that way and seen Trayvon walking up the path when he crossed it the first time? It looks very open in the pictures, and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of hiding places. The alternative is that Trayvon decided to hang out nearby, hiding and talking to his girlfriend on the telephone, waiting for Zimmerman to come back just so he could confront the man he just tried to evade, which doesn't feel very sound to me.

This leads me to suspect that instead of the path Zimmerman claims to have taken along the cut-through, that he may have actually circled around the front of the townhouses and went between them further up to cut Martin off. According to the gf, Martin thought he had lost him, which means Martin might have felt safe enough to go back to walking instead of moving quickly. But then later in the call, he supposedly tells her Zimmerman is "back." That may be the moment when he sees Zimmerman coming at him from the front, and then speaks to him right before the altercation starts and the phone cuts off.

IDK what DID happen, but I know the story being pushed by RZ Sr and Jr COULD NOT happen as they describe it.

There are several variations of your alternate scenario that are possible. One form or another is something I've considered quite a bit and seems as logical as anything else at this point.

 

[RANCH]

OK a brilliant Admin just provided me with the following.

General Bill by Dockery (CO-SPONSORS) Fasano; Argenziano; Lynn; Crist



Anti-Murder Act/Violent Offenders [LPCC]: cites act as "Anti-Murder Act"; prohibits bail or other pretrial release for specified violent felony offenders of special concern & certain arrested persons pending probation-violation or community-control-violation hearing; provides for notification to criminal justice system of offender's status as said offender of special concern or other specified offender; revises worksheet computations of Criminal Punishment Code, etc. Amends FS.






SB Substituted for

CS/HB 29 By Safety & Security Council and Adams




Effective Date: 03/12/2007

I'm not sure if this Florida law has anything to do with this case but it is interesting nonetheless. Here's a couple of things I found interesting.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/annual/0607/antimurder.html

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/anti-murder-act-has-unintended-consequences/1144373

 

[suspicious1]

I was just curious......

Did TRAY call 911 that night? There was a claim that he did but I had never heard that before.

 

[francie]

Natasha Richardson did not have one band aid. the ambulance came she said she is fine, she did not want to go with them
and just wanted to go to her foom to lay down. She never got up.
<respectfully snipped for space>

I'm not sure what Natasha Richardson's head injury has to do with this case, she died. George Zimmerman is alive. jmo

 

[RANCH]

Sorry, yes, cigarettes. I know it may seem like a weird question but I was just curious.

I can't say if GZ smokes or not, but I quit smoking over 2 1/2 years ago.

 

[mommakk51]

That brings up a scenario that I keep turning over in my mind about how the confrontation occurred, and would like to run past you, since you seem to have a good grasp of the timeline and location. Zimmerman claims that he walked straight across on the cut-through, got an address, and then was assaulted by Trayvon on his way back ON the cut-through. Trayvon allegedly punches Zimmerman, who goes down and a fight ensues. Yet the crime scene was much further up on the pathway that ran between the townhouses, and not on the cut-through where Zimmerman says he was attacked. Also, considering that Trayvon headed up the path running perpendicular to the cut-through, wouldn't Zimmerman have looked that way and seen Trayvon walking up the path when he crossed it the first time? It looks very open in the pictures, and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of hiding places. The alternative is that Trayvon decided to hang out nearby, hiding and talking to his girlfriend on the telephone, waiting for Zimmerman to come back just so he could confront the man he just tried to evade, which doesn't feel very sound to me.

This leads me to suspect that instead of the path Zimmerman claims to have taken along the cut-through, that he may have actually circled around the front of the townhouses and went between them further up to cut Martin off. According to the gf, Martin thought he had lost him, which means Martin might have felt safe enough to go back to walking instead of moving quickly. But then later in the call, he supposedly tells her Zimmerman is "back." That may be the moment when he sees Zimmerman coming at him from the front, and then speaks to him right before the altercation starts and the phone cuts off.

The way I understand, from what I learned in the beginning, was that when Trayvon ran, he ran around the curve on Twin Trees Lane, and then ran through the middle of 2 buildings. GZ started to run after him, but was told not to by dispatch. At that point, you can tell he stops running from the 911 tapes. This was where GZ walked on across the cut through and got on the sidewalk and walked down it to see if he could spot Trayvon, which he did not. He continued straight down the sidewalk towards the gate where he got the address for dispatch. When he was walking back to his truck, he got attacked at the T in the sidewalk that ran behind the rows of townhomes. This was behind witness John's townhome. I also want to bring up while I am mentioning witness John, is when he was on the phone with 911, after he reported what was going on, he then stated that he just heard what was either a rock hitting the window, or a gunshot...weird.. this whole case is so very weird. What if it was a cell phone being flung at the window in desperation for getting help? If that were the case, and it was Tray's cell phone, that would account for it being locked and inaccessible until Tracy provided the password. JMO IMHO and all that.