17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #28

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Don't know, outside of the timeline being so tight is there enough time to allow for that. That would of had to happened before TM's girlfriend heard 'what are you doing here'?

Why would it have to happen before she heard that? I'm not following you.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it disclosed where TM was shot. There's been much speculation on the internet about the chest, back, and even the back of the head. If TM was shot in the back, I think that would have been presented at the bond hearing.

My apologies for not reading the entire thread - just trying to catch up.

Thanks,

Melanie

It's presented in the charging affidavit and the detective got on the stand today and affirmative answered yes to the question of if he was shot in the chest.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it disclosed where TM was shot. There's been much speculation on the internet about the chest, back, and even the back of the head. If TM was shot in the back, I think that would have been presented at the bond hearing.

My apologies for not reading the entire thread - just trying to catch up.

Thanks,

Melanie

Yes. It was stated in the bond hearing he was shot in the chest.
 
So you are willing to disregard the law, as long as it gets somebody (potentially) wrongfully convicted? That is deep.

JMO

I do not understand why this post quoted me yet does not address something that I had said.

I told that my personal opinion is that there is something wrong with a person who goes out of his way to potentially get himself or somebody else killed. Disregard of human life is morally wrong. In my opinion.

Florida law may disagree with me but the last time I checked, me having an opinion is not going to convict anybody.

It is the jury who needs to understand all the ins and outs of the law. I am not a Floridian and I am allowed to have an opinion that things are morally wrong or stupid or irresponsible even if they're legal in Florida.
 
I'm still a few pages back trying to get caught up, but I am surprised that no one is focusing on the investigators contradicting statements. I thought O'Mara did a good job going through the probable cause affidavit and point out the inconsistencies in it.

The investigator admitted he had no evidence that GZ continued to follow TM. AND he admitted that he had no evidence to show eho started the physical altercation.

I was shocked to hear him say that.

Additionally, if it was so important to set a high bond amount, or to have GZ held without bail, why would they not include more of the evidence against GZ in the probably cause affidavit? It seems to me that if they had daming evidence, they should have presented it in the affidavit to keep GZ off the street if he is really a threat to others. Makes no sense to me.
 
Look at the phone at his right ear?
If you Read the article associated with the pic this picture occurred "right after" the shooting and GZ yelled to the "person" taking the picture 'call my wife" as well

So he yelled to neighbors to call 911. He yelled to this "friend" to call his wife. He had to have been calling his father! But within seconds, the police arrived. He had to have had his phone to his ear as officers arrived. Wonder if he ever did get through to his father before he was taken in handcuffs?
 
In the little bit of reading I have done on GSR, the gun has to be fired at close range to leave residue visible to the naked eye.

At distances of 18 to 24 inches, most firearms deposit significant amounts of residue that may or may not be detected by the naked eye. Distances of 12 or fewer inches generally produce residues visible to the naked eye.

Read more: Forensic Toxicology and Gun Residue | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_6402544_forensic-toxicology-gun-residue.html#ixzz1sbb4QUnh
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was it disclosed where TM was shot. There's been much speculation on the internet about the chest, back, and even the back of the head. If TM was shot in the back, I think that would have been presented at the bond hearing.

My apologies for not reading the entire thread - just trying to catch up.

Thanks,

Melanie

he was shot in the chest, according to the prosecution. No doubt about it. I don't know why anyone is questioning that at all. But some people keep trying to say it was in the back.
 
BBM

I was told bail was dependent on the ability to pay, not on the seriousness of the crime. I find that absurd but who knows.

The purpose of bail is to guarantee the defendant will appear for trial. Bail is not to be punitive.

MOO
 
Didnt one of the witnesses say he was grabbing his head the first thing after he stood up?

That is what I thought??? But the new pic doesn't show any smearing. It looks too clean (can't find a better word) If this pic was taken before GZ was treated by EMS, Okay, but if they let him leave without so much as a bandage 30 so minutes later. And we have all watched the video where no gloves are needed?

Oh heck I dunno anymore. I just don't know. It looks hinky.
 
Why wouldn't they be? He just killed someone. And he saw at that point there was no other gun. He must have been very worried at that point.

So within 3 minutes of killing an unarmed teenager, instead of thinking "OMG I just KILLED someone!"....he is already thinking clearly enough to worry about covering his arse? Well, I do think he is cold blooded, you may be right.
 
BBM. I don't think that's clear at all. Rapists and murderers often have wounds from their victims or from the struggle. If that photo is accurate and I have no reason not to believe it isn't accurate, at this time, then Zimmerman had minor wounds to the back of his head.

Snipped to the part directed at me.

IMO it's clear. He also had a broken nose if you believe his attorney today that says he has medical records to support that claim.

It's just my opinion. I don't expect everyone to share it.

IMO he was taking a whooping before the shot.
 
I see what looks like GZ using a cell phone, and on the right of that, it looks like grey clothing and a hand. Like TM laying right below GZ's feet face down, with someone snapping a pic of GZ's head obviously. jmo

ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg
I wonder if the entry wound is what appears to be a red wound in the chest just below where the left shoulder meets the chest. Meaning, the wound is in the extreme upper left quadrant of the chest.

I wounder if they have the wounds of both of them showing in just this one picture here...

or if what I am seeing is some type of artifact etc...


Nah, I think it is GZ elbow. The color of the gray matches what is in his neckline of his jacket, IMO.
 
If Zimmerman gets out on Bond does that mean there will be no trial?
 
What I find interesting... How many people here were jumping up and down about how EMS would surely take someone to the hospital with the potential for head trauma because of how risky it is... How the police wouldn't have allowed him to go to the station if he might have had head trauma...

I'm not sure how much clearer it can get that he had sustained injuries to his head than a picture of his bloody head. Now, I suppose that all of the arguments revolving why police definitely would have gotten him checked out at the hospital (even a minor-looking head injury can be extremely severe) will be ignored because it might potentially support Zimmerman in some way.

JMO
 
I'm still a few pages back trying to get caught up, but I am surprised that no one is focusing on the investigators contradicting statements. I thought O'Mara did a good job going through the probable cause affidavit and point out the inconsistencies in it.

The investigator admitted he had no evidence that GZ continued to follow TM. AND he admitted that he had no evidence to show eho started the physical altercation.

I was shocked to hear him say that.

Additionally, if it was so important to set a high bond amount, or to have GZ held without bail, why would they not include more of the evidence against GZ in the probably cause affidavit? It seems to me that if they had daming evidence, they should have presented it in the affidavit to keep GZ off the street if he is really a threat to others. Makes no sense to me.

BBM

I totally agree. That was huge, imo. And people here are playing it down, and focusing on the apology. which is meaningless overall.
 
When you work a case, you read the statements and organize the statements of witnesses, over and over again. I have slipped in court and called a witness by their first name because that is how I organized their statements or my cross or direct of them, for example. It's easy to let a name slip out that you don't want to, when you are so immersed in the case.

I did not see the bond hearing. Did O'Mara seem smarmy? Sleazy? Arrogant? So far, he has not seemed that was to me and he has a good reputation. Neither Hornsby nor Nejame liked Baez but they both like O'Mara. So unless he seemed like a jerk at the hearing, I must give him the benefit of the doubt.



Version 6.0.


Bumping.



I'm not. I knew he would make bond. I thought the judge would have to make it high enough to not seem like a joke but low enough that Zimmerman could find a way to be released. He will be released quickly, IMO.




BBM. I don't think that's clear at all. Rapists and murderers often have wounds from their victims or from the struggle. If that photo is accurate and I have no reason not to believe it isn't accurate, at this time, then Zimmerman had minor wounds to the back of his head.



People who are attacked often fight back. Wounds on Zimmerman do not prove who was the aggressor here. But, I think logic does.

There is NOTHING official that hints that Trayvon was an aggressive person. The statement of his girlfriend and the call to LE by Zimmerman indicate Zimmerman pursued a scared teenager and confronted him.

Zimmerman's background suggests he has a propensity for aggression, not the kid he followed.

If a strange man followed me at night, then got out of his car and confronted me, you better believe I would fight back if he put his hands on me, which is exactly what I think happened here. Zimmerman is the one who said these "a$$holes" always get away, while chasing the kid. Trayvon did not get away.

I think injuries would be significant in proving to a jury that at some point, Zimmerman was in fear for his life and pulled the trigger. That would depend on the severity of the injuries and may make the difference as to whether the jury chooses second degree, manslaughter or acquittal. The greater the injuries, the better chance Zimmerman has of getting off.

So far, I'm not impressed. Nothing suggests to me that Zimmerman was getting his tail whooped or was defensively warding off an unprovoked attack from some kid he was following, a kid not involved in any crime, not walking with a band of other kids looking for trouble, etc.

Regardless of my personal feelings, though, I have thought from the beginning that there would be a good chance Zimmerman would walk, or at the most, get a manslaughter charge and spend very little time in county lock up.

Many people have racial biases. Many people feel fear or intimidated, as a result, when they see a black young man, regardless of the circumstances. Many people assume blacks are more aggressive, naturally. Some of those people will be on the jury. The state will have to have a lot in order to get any charges to stick, IMO. Black victims just don't see justice as easily as others.



BBM

Great post, especially the part I bolded. Your opinions are very interesting to read, even if they sometimes contrast with my own.
 
Just read up about the pictures...The police arrived on the scene 1 minute after the shooting. The picture was taken 3 minutes after the shooting. Why was the crime scene not contained? Why was it important to someone to take such pictures? Why is there no visible wound? Has the photographer been questioned? Who was George on the phone with?

Just my questions...I'm sure answers will come out soon enough...
 
Why would it have to happen before she heard that? I'm not following you.

You said it's possible he fell while chasing TM. I take it by the time he said 'what are you doing here', he caught up with him, phone dropped, scuffle ensued, shot fired.
 
If the witness meant that he saw GSR, and was speaking of the 'burn' type marks that surround a close range entry wound, on clothing or on skin, then yes, I understand that.

Thanks

If that is the case, then it begs the question how this "witness" saw powder burns on TM, when TM was found on his stomach, yet shot in the chest. :waitasec:
 
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