17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #28

[m00c0w]

Because Target has their own security people, it's not necessary, it's intimidation. That's why Open Carry has failed in California.

Open Carry is legal in California.

 

[daisy7]

GZ might have had the flashlights in his vehicle at all times and grabbed them when he decided to pursue TM.

Do you think GZ used the flashlights trying to locate TM?

It would freak me out.

IIRC, the investigator said one of the flashlights was strapped on GZ. And, didn't one of the witness there was someone out there with a flashlight and she thought the person was LE?

 

[Desdemona]

To add to my post #1215:

During that time period of perhaps six to eight months, I called police at least once or twice per month (i.e. ~10 times) to report suspicious people, a suspicious car (which was being used by the drug house ppl), and a garage door that was left open and unattended for hours. Each time, I was thanked by LE and encouraged to continue to report anything suspicious. My next door neighbor also called police several times during this period. Once the drug house was busted, things seemed to settle down substantially, and I've not needed to call LE in years. JMO

 

[Donjeta]

Right, he was not following TM, he needed the flashlight to find his truck.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Yeah, where's the paralysis? Remember, he was close to spoon-feeding and diapers for life...

GZ never said that.

 

[HiHater]

It just does not make sense to me that GZ would follow TM and then start a fight. You'd think he'd maybe point the gun at him and keep him there until police arrived. That's what makes me think it was self defense. JMO

What the heck? That's a crime as well. Zimmerman may have done both...or tried to hold him and that started a fight.

 

[mercuriod]

You are saying that TM was shot in the back? Then why would the charging document say he was shot in the chest?

So are you saying that this "witness" who very clearly said he could CLEARLY see the GSR on Trayvon's hoodie is either lying (remember he is the one that took the pic of GZ "injuries" so is he lying about them too) or since Trayvon was shot in the chest he turned Trayvon over looked at the GSR then flipped Trayvon over again, thus tampering with the scene of a crime?

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

Thanks, you just made my point for me. If that was the case, then TM had every right to do anything necessary to save his own life, if he had a gun pointed at him. (Which I think is the case)

I didn't say that's what he did as I have no way of knowing. I actually don't think he drew his weapon first because why would TM attack an armed man?

My best guess is there was a struggle over the gun and it went off. JMO

 

[Concerned Papa]

I thought I'd heard in there somewhere he'd gone to get the address number off the side of the building but I could be mistaken.

I heard something to that effect as well. The investigator said something about street signs?

In any event, it's very similar to RZ's version which clearly detailed GZ as continuing to the "next street over" to get an address, then heading back to his truck, only to be attacked by TM where the sidewalk intersects with the back sidewalk between the townhomes.

My point in all of this is very, very simple. We don't know all that many facts about the events of that night, but two very specific items that we do know are:

-GZ got out of his truck at [2:08] into the 911 call

-GZ was told "We don't need you to do that" at [2:26] into the call.

That's 18 seconds that we have factual information as to it's begininning point and it's ending point. We've all heard it.

I don't care if you believe he walked, ran, or hopped on a pogo stick.....how far does anyone really think he got in 18 seconds?

I don't care if you believe he then, did as his father said and, continued to the next street over to get an address BEFORE heading back to his truck, or believe he turned on a dime and headed back to his truck as soon as the dispatcher said those words, how long is it supposed to have taken him to arrive at the point where he says TM attacked him?

If he didn't continue to chase, pursue, or follow TM after being advised not to, how could his attack not be BEFORE he got off the phone with 911 at [4:07]?

If he didn't continue to chase, pursue, or follow TM after being advised not to, how could the body be within 70 yards of TM's residence as MOM suggested to the investigator while on the stand?

 

[m00c0w]

So are you saying that this "witness" who very clearly said he could CLEARLY see the GSR on Trayvon's hoodie is either lying (remember he is the one that took the pic of GZ "injuries" so is he lying about them too) or since Trayvon was shot in the chest he turned Trayvon over looked at the GSR then flipped Trayvon over again, thus tampering with the scene of a crime?

Or maybe he saw it when the cops flipped him over? :waitasec:

 

[magnolia]

I totally agree with you, in fact I made my husband give up his gun when he moved in with me, I gave him an ultimatum, "It's me or your gun, but you will NOT force me to live with a gun!" He gave it away.
Doesn't mean you have to be defenseless, there are other weapons, we have a large dog, butcher knives, baseball bats, pepper spray. But a gun fires so quickly, that it's usually a given that a person is dead once it's been fired...

I totally agree with you. When growing up, we never had a gun in the house. I hate guns. Makes me cringe to even hold one.

 

[Phoenixfla]

Because Target has their own security people, it's not necessary, it's intimidation. That's why Open Carry has failed in California.

Their security people are unarmed. They can't do much against a robber/kidnapper/crazy person intent on harming people.

 

[LyndyLoo]

I didn't say that's what he did as I have no way of knowing. I actually don't think he drew his weapon first because why would TM attack an armed man?

My best guess is there was a struggle over the gun and it went off. JMO

But that particular gun had a 5-9 lb trigger pull..according to reports from knowledgeable gun owners..and Did hear this particular 9mm was not known for accidental firing, but required a purposeful trigger pull in order to discharge. This shot wasnt apparantly anything accidental but purposeful.

I am sure we will hear all about this particular firearm down the road..So maybe just put this into the file of..needs to be clarified for now

 

[LinasK]

Open Carry is legal in California.

Not it's not, I looked it up recently. Concealed Weapons Permits are.

 

[LolaMoon08]

In Georgia, they recently tried to pass a law that would allow 18-year-olds to get a carry permit with a specific training requirement. Would you be for this type of law? It just sat in House Rules until it died.

Yes. I didn't know you had to be 21 in order to get a gun until we talked about it last time. I see no reason why an 18-year-old shouldn't be able to have a gun if they go through all the proper training? They are legally adults and can go off and shoot high-powered rifles in war -- at least they should be able to do is come home and have the same rights to protect themselves in their home Country!

MOO

 

[CathyinTexas]

Yep, and it is becoming quite obvious, Zimmerman had injuries, IMO.

To be expected in a struggle or scuffle. They aren't consistent with being attacked and beaten though. I wonder if the autopsy shows severe injuries to Trayvon consistent with being attacked and beaten? Or defensive wounds. I believe that might be a strong part of the prosecution's case if it indeed there are.

 

[Desdemona]

Yeah, where's the paralysis? Remember, he was close to spoon-feeding and diapers for life...

I believe one of the key self-defense questions will be whether or not GZ or any reasonable person in that situation might have legitimately believed there was real and imminent danger of suffering possibly serious bodily harm. IMO the evidence and testimony will determine this case in the end. JMO

 

[BritsKate]

Open Carry is legal in California.

Not entirely.

With AB 144 becoming law, Unloaded Open Carry of handguns is now illegal except where loaded open carry is legal, and also in public lands (National Forests, BLM, etc.) where firearms are permitted.

Unloaded Open Carry is still legal for long guns (rifles and shotguns) anywhere except the following places:

schools and "school zones" (within 1000 feet of a K-12 school)
California State Parks
"federal facilities" within the National Parks (details)
US Post Offices and other federal buildings
any state or local public building or at any legislative meeting required to be open to the public
the State Capitol, legislative offices, office of the Governor, Governor’s residence, etc.
“sterile areas” (areas where access is controlled by security screening) of airports
areas restricted by local city or county ordinance, often including regional parks

http://californiaopencarry.org/

 

[CathyinTexas]

Please dont throw stones at me!!!! George is the one that killed Trayvon, not his family. They must care about him and are standing by him. George is the one that should be punished if convicted not the family. moo Now let me duck!:seeya:

I agree that his family should support him, but not to the extent that they will lie or embellish the truth. They should love their son unconditionally, of course, even if he murdered someone.

 

[csziggy]

I watched the majority of that deal this morning. From what I could tell from the investigator's testimony, MOM's questioning, and the SA's questioning, it seemed to me that what was said, as to GZ's story of events, was largely the same as what we had heard before, wasn't it?

Got out of his truck......followed to a point when the dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that".....walking back to his truck when TM attacked him.

In a broad brushed simplification of the story line, is that not more or less what he's saying?

Did anyone hear anything that we haven't already heard from either RZ, RZ Jr., or through the leaked statements of GZ in the Orlando Sentinel article?

Here was something new:

Now O'Mara is asking Gilbreath questions again. He's driving at how long after the operator told Zimmerman not to follow Martin that the suspect "continued to follow" the scene.

Gilbreath: "We have a witness statement who observed shadows or figures running by her residence." He says he can't identify who they were.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2012/apr/20/george-zimmerman-bond-hearing-live

It's not in this version of the hearing but I thought I heard the detective say that the running from from the direction of where TM was staying towards where the body was found. I'm still trying to find a verbatim transcript of the hearing to verify my memory.

If that is true, though, then your scenario that Trayvon made it back or nearly back to the townhouse and that GZ chased him away from TM's place of safety was right!

IMO, JMO, etc. until I find that transcript!