17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #31

[Montjoy]

But my point is, the drop off from 17-28... very little athletically. But i made huge strides in my level of strength. Very few 17 years could of taken me when i was 28.

As we know, this wasn't a slam-dunk competition, but hand to hand combat (grappling, to be more specific). One of my friends was an olympian in freestyle wrestling -- he told me that the peak age for wrestlers (and grapplers in general) was between 28-32. You'll see very few olympic wrestlers in the 17-19 year age range, and none of TM's height and weight.

 

[Gin]

Here is what I cannot for the life of me seem to figure out about what is going on here in this forum. As you can see from the date that I joined, I've been around here for a while and I've read on other cases. I generally read, don't post much. I'm here because I thought it was victim friendly. In the cases that I've read, I don't seem to see the questioning of the victim like I've seen in this case. It puzzles me, concerns me, and disturbs me all at the same time. I understand that people disagree and have differing viewpoints, I get it. What I don't get is that folks are questioning a kid's actions about what he should've done, shouldn't have done, should've felt, shouldn't have felt, run faster, run straight home, answered questions civily from a stranger, let himself be detained by a stranger without question, heck someoneone up thread even said he "acted agitated"...huh?!

What in the world is going on? I don't recall ever reading on this forum how victim's actions caused them to be victimized. We don't question a missing women's right to be at a concert, to be in a parking lot, to be wherever she choses to be. We don't say, well even if she was approached by a male she should not defend herself, quite the opposite in fact. I generally don't see discussion about how a victim caused their own victimization.



I understand the discussion about the law and how it could apply in this case. But it has gone far beyond that.

JMO/IMO...I understand what you are saying. It disturbs me too. All I can do is to stand up for Trayvon. I'm a mom, and I can't imagine the pain his parents experience every day. He was 17. He was minding his own business. There was absolutely no reason for him to be profiled, followed, and murdered by an armed volunteer condo patrolman.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Probably had buds at SPD!

Probably had a mentor.

 

[LambChop]

So, what your saying is if I notice someone watching me, I make sure I get out of his line of sight, then I go about my business (talking on the phone, keep walking, etc), then I see this person again and he says to me 'why are you here', and I say something back and a confrontation ensues, I'd be perfectly in the right of anything I do to the person who confronted me, because I didn't like him watching me and asking a question?

If you took the gun out the equation and the events happened the exact same way, with an assumption that TM started the physical confrontation, could GZ not press charges for assault?

I think it's pretty clear if GZ had left his gun at home he would not have left his car because he stated to LE he views this person as a threat. The minute GZ called in to LE that he was reporting a suspicious person he gave up any rights he had to pursue TM. It was now a police matter and that is why they told him to stay with his car and that he did not need to follow. Dispatch felt GZ had followed their instructions because GZ said okay. GZ's statement to LE after the shooting do not match up with certain facts that LE are now aware of. If GZ lied about any one detail in his statement nothing in his statement can be viewed as credible. From witness statements and new facts that have been revealed it looks more and more as if GZ was the initial aggressor which are confirmed by his actions of getting out of the car to pursue TM.

GZ didn't just follow TM. He pursued him and it is clear his intent was to keep TM from getting away otherwise he would have ID'd himself and asked TM if he was staying at one of the condos when he was on the phone with LE. Why didn't he do that when he had the chance???? Wouldn't that have been common sense? If TM was up to no good the minute GZ said NWP TM would have booked out that front gate. So why didn't he ask that question when TM would have had a chance run and it would have been clear what his motivation was for being within the community. But TM would not have run, he would have probably told GZ I'm staying with BG in condo number XX for the weekend. Just ran out to get some ice tea and Skittles for the game. Common sense!!!! I guess when some people get a gun their common sense flys out the window. jmo

 

[HiHater]

GZ sounded very different on the 911 tape than he did at his bond hearing IMO. Very, very different. I have my thoughts as to why, but did anyone else think he sounded different?

 

[Elley Mae]

Thank you for this, it is very interesting. So it would seem to me, as close as Brandi lived to GZ, if all this crime was going on she would have some knowledge of it. Even if Brandi and GZ do not know each other with something as important as all this crime neighbors would talk about it. That is why GZ murdered Trayvon, right, GZ thought Trayvon was involved in all this crime????

When I woke at 3am to see a person in my drive way about to enter my vehicle after he left the neighbors driveway I called LE. No one knew it happened til I told them. Two Le showed up everyone was sleeping. just sayin

 

[jaded cat]

I would call GZ considerably smaller than Trayvon. Did you see him in court? He's a little man. I would guess 160, 5'7". Trayvon is 160, 6+ feet tall.

He was booked in at 5'8" and 185 pounds. It's recorded and available on the jail website.

It's been reported by his family that he has lost a lot of weight since the shooting.

 

[LambChop]

Thanks for your reply. You make a good point. Without knowing more about GZ and Trayvons exercise habits it's hard to say who was or wasn't physically fit. At this point we can only speculate.

He was getting ready to apply for the police academy and in the lockup video he looks pretty fit to me. Also he had had prior training as a bouncer which should have given him a bit of an educated edge over TM. The only thing that could make sense is that GZ may have been holding onto TM and TM was fighting back to get away from GZ and GZ did not want TM to get away. Given what we now know it would make perfect sense as the reason GZ followed TM was to keep him from getting away. jmo

 

[Velouria]

Where I felt threatened? Yes. But then again I'm not that much of a fighter when dealing with confrontation. I'd hold my own but I'd have to really be forced into that kind of scenario.

I'm afraid I've never seen an individual who could hold his own against a hollow-point bullet.

 

[Sensei]

I think it's pretty clear if GZ had left his gun at home he would not have left his car because he stated to LE he views this person as a threat.

ITA Lambchop, I just wish I knew for certain how long he's had that gun and the pemit to carry. If, as I suspect, it is a fairly shiney new toy for him, then I will be certain that my assessment is correct and that he was simply itching to show and use that gun to apprehend this criminal that he caught. He wanted to show LE, and it went sideways on him when he tried to stop Trayvon. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[CHICANA]

Okay, I'll go with it's okay to follow to make sure a child isn't being abducted. But they shouldn't be pulling out a gun when they do it.

Please provide a link showing GZ pulled out his gun while he was following TM. I think TM would have run home if he had known GZ had a gun.

 

[Adrienne37]

GZ sounded very different on the 911 tape than he did at his bond hearing IMO. Very, very different. I have my thoughts as to why, but did anyone else think he sounded different?

I agree HiHater. I have my ideas as well but it's too bad we'll never know because YET AGAIN there wasn't a proper investigation completed by the SPD.



~jmo~

 

[Dr.Fessel]

GZ sounded very different on the 911 tape than he did at his bond hearing IMO. Very, very different. I have my thoughts as to why, but did anyone else think he sounded different?

I really think he sounded different because he had been drinking. If he was really running to target I think it was a beer run or he just got a buzz and thought he would go do a little patrolling before the game. ALL IMO

 

[Concerned Papa]

You are entirely missing the point.

he told dispatch that he had stopped following Trayvon at 2:26

his story is that he walked an additional 80 feet, but to be generous lets call it 160 feet to his destination and back...

The average walking speed for an elderly person is 3.89 feet per second on average so we will round that up to 4 feet per second.

Now divide 4 feet per second into the 160 feet that he walked....

that gives you 40, so that's 40 seconds walking, give him to be generous, a full minute to actually get pen and paper or whatever and get an address.... Okay, 2:26 starting point plus 1:40 travel time to reach the spot that he claims he was attacked and you find that he would have still been on the phone with LE dispatch at the time that he claims to have been attacked by Travyon. 2:26 and 1:40 equals 4:06 and that is being far too generous with the time of travel and linger to get the address time and still it works out that
He was still on the call to dispatch at 4:07

By his own story..GZ was on the phone with dispatch when Trayvon attacked him....

In addition to your calculations a jury will have to consider the following:

-IIRC, NINE residents called 911 having heard the gunshot at 7:16:41 pm which is over three minutes AFTER GZ claims he was attacked 100 feet away from where both SPD and SFD say the body was found?

-Why did GZ decide he needed to walk to the next street over for an address after 18 seconds of following TM when he parked his truck and walked right past the front of 1211 Twin Trees Lane during this 18 second walk?

-Why did GZ tell the 911 operator he didn't know an address at [3:25] into the call when he supposedly started walking to get an address at [2:26]?

 

[tlcya]

now that the legal system is charged with sorting all this out I have stepped back a bit. This case raised really strong feelings for me and I know for many other members. Rather than continue to hotly debate the limited facts we actually have I am in lurk mode as I wait for the courts to determine what is appropriate here and then hopefully lawmakers to take a long look at the unintended consequences of the SYG law in its current state and perhaps tweak it to remove them.

http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/man-beaten-mob-critical-condition-ar-3659891/?hpt=ju_bn4

The linked story is one I sincerely hope we don't see more of. It is my hope that cooler heads can prevail and Trayvon's (IMO) senseless killing can be examined by the judicial system. MOO is that the persons who perpetrated the attack in the linked article were using Trayvon's story, as so many seem to be doing right now, to justify bad behavior they were going to engage in regardless.

Back to lurk mode, happy debating fellow WSers

 

[jaded cat]

And weren't all of his family and friends talking about how much weight he had lost from all this stress he's under? What he looked like in that oversized suit in court means nothing.

GZ was plenty muscular looking in the jail video, and he isn't all that much shorter that Trayvon was.

JMHO

I think he was wearing an oversize suit to hide the bullet proof vest he had on.

 

[LambChop]

Where I felt threatened? Yes. But then again I'm not that much of a fighter when dealing with confrontation. I'd hold my own but I'd have to really be forced into that kind of scenario.

So what you are saying is you would have stayed with the car? Me, too. It was the safest place for GZ to be and as it would have turned out for TM, too. jmo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Here is why MOM stood in front of the camera so you could not see Zimmerman's face while he offered his condolences. IMO

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060505161952.htm

ScienceDaily (May 5, 2006) — When trying to lie your way through any situation, keep a tight rein on your zygo maticus major and your orbicularis oculi. They'll give you away faster than a snitch.

So says social psychologist Mark Frank, whose revolutionary research on human facial expressions in situations of high stakes deception debunks myths that have permeated police and security training for decades. His work has come to be recognized by security officials in the U.S. and abroad as very useful tool in the identification and interrogation of terrorism suspects.

 

[RANCH]

He was getting ready to apply for the police academy and in the lockup video he looks pretty fit to me. Also he had had prior training as a bouncer which should have given him a bit of an educated edge over TM. The only thing that could make sense is that GZ may have been holding onto TM and TM was fighting back to get away from GZ and GZ did not want TM to get away. Given what we now know it would make perfect sense as the reason GZ followed TM was to keep him from getting away. jmo

I can't tell from any recent videos how physically fit GZ is. What kind of training did GZ get for this bouncer job? I haven't seen anything in the media about any training.

 

[Gin]

I think he was wearing an oversize suit to hide the bullet proof vest he had on.

JMO/IMO
That oversized, ill-fitting suit could have served two purposes.
First, to accomodate a vest, and then (especially the overly wide jacket) made him smaller, more vulnerable. Might be part of the theatre that is courtroom drama. :wink:

I don't believe bulletproof vests are anywhere near as bulky as they used to be.