17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #31

[Sensei]

In addition to your calculations a jury will have to consider the following:

-IIRC, NINE residents called 911 having heard the gunshot at 7:16:41 pm which is over three minutes AFTER GZ claims he was attacked 100 feet away from where both SPD and SFD say the body was found?

-Why did GZ decide he needed to walk to the next street over for an address after 18 seconds of following TM when he parked his truck and walked right past the front of 1211 Twin Trees Lane during this 18 second walk?

-Why did GZ tell the 911 operator he didn't know an address at [3:25] into the call when he supposedly started walking to get an address at [2:26]?

And I can't wait to hear his answers, to those questions. I think his major slipup was not realizing that when he called LE dispatch the calls are recorded and timestamped and just did not think out a reasonable timeframe for him to be where he was, he just knew he could not admit to following and trying to stop Trayvon...and it's going to bite him in the Keister. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[impatientredhead]

I think it's pretty clear if GZ had left his gun at home he would not have left his car because he stated to LE he views this person as a threat. The minute GZ called in to LE that he was reporting a suspicious person he gave up any rights he had to pursue TM. It was now a police matter and that is why they told him to stay with his car and that he did not need to follow. Dispatch felt GZ had followed their instructions because GZ said okay. GZ's statement to LE after the shooting do not match up with certain facts that LE are now aware of. If GZ lied about any one detail in his statement nothing in his statement can be viewed as credible. From witness statements and new facts that have been revealed it looks more and more as if GZ was the initial aggressor which are confirmed by his actions of getting out of the car to pursue TM.

GZ didn't just follow TM. He pursued him and it is clear his intent was to keep TM from getting away otherwise he would have ID'd himself and asked TM if he was staying at one of the condos when he was on the phone with LE. Why didn't he do that when he had the chance???? Wouldn't that have been common sense? If TM was up to no good the minute GZ said NWP TM would have booked out that front gate. So why didn't he ask that question when TM would have had a chance run and it would have been clear what his motivation was for being within the community. But TM would not have run, he would have probably told GZ I'm staying with BG in condo number XX for the weekend. Just ran out to get some ice tea and Skittles for the game. Common sense!!!! I guess when some people get a gun their common sense flys out the window. jmo

And that is why I don't want this version of SYG in our state. Our only requirement for a concealed permit is age and lack of felony charges. That is it. Taking away the responsibility for your actions that led to you being on the receiving end of an *advertiser censored* whooping is way to much responsibility when I look around at the average citizen. Frightening really.

I am not a huge propents of some of the laws named for high profile victims, I think they frequently cover something that is already illegal, backfire by making the codes overly complicated, and really accomplish nothing..... but this one has needed to be changed for awhile now.

The deceased in the other cases we discussed didn't draw enough sympathy for anyone to change the law then, but this case will rewrite a law that needs to be changed. Think of how many people didn't realize this is what SYG can lead to in its current form. With the recent rulings and immunity given I wouldn't have believed it EVER.

 

[suzihawk]

I think he was wearing an oversize suit to hide the bullet proof vest he had on.

I don't think that was the only reason.

IMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

In addition to your calculations a jury will have to consider the following:

-IIRC, NINE residents called 911 having heard the gunshot at 7:16:41 pm which is over three minutes AFTER GZ claims he was attacked 100 feet away from where both SPD and SFD say the body was found?

-Why did GZ decide he needed to walk to the next street over for an address after 18 seconds of following TM when he parked his truck and walked right past the front of 1211 Twin Trees Lane during this 18 second walk?

-Why did GZ tell the 911 operator he didn't know an address at [3:25] into the call when he supposedly started walking to get an address at [2:26]?

Why didn't he call 911 as soon as he got the address?

What was that address for? He told 911 just to have the cops call him.

 

[Concerned Papa]

If George Zimmerman was all about Neighborhood Watch Patrol, why didn't he have a cap that said as much? Why didn't he have a T shirt or jacket that said as much? Why didn't he go to WalMart and get a toy badge and write NWP on it for identification?

Why is it that all he seemed to have was a gun, 2 tactical flashlights, and a cell phone?

 

[grammieto5]

When I woke at 3am to see a person in my drive way about to enter my vehicle after he left the neighbors driveway I called LE. No one knew it happened til I told them. Two Le showed up everyone was sleeping. just sayin

Exactly! You told them. That was one incident. If there was so much crime in that area to cause GZ to view Trayvon as a threat it would make sense for neighbors to be talking about all the crime. I'm sure after you told one neighbor those neighbors told others.

 

[cityslick]

And yet you are comfortable suggesting that Trayvon apropo of nothing was ready to take the first swing and try to kill Zimmerman with his bare hands.

I still want someone else to take a run at Papa's calculation which I actually did, and I do believe that if the prosecution is paying attention they are going to ask George Zimmerman how it is that the story that His Attorney is claiming and three other sources are claiming could be true....How could he have been doing and going what he said he was doing and going where he claimed to be going when he was attacked by Trayvon when the best calculation I can come up with being very generous with times and distances show that if his story is true then Trayvon attacked him while he was still on the phone with LE dispatch....he is going to have to explain that I believe. IMO JMHO and stuff.

BBM

Why not, you are assuming TM knew GZ had a gun to being with. I provided math that doesn't indicate evidence that TM was actually 'running in fear' or was scared at any point until the very end.

 

[jaded cat]

So, what your saying is if I notice someone watching me, I make sure I get out of his line of sight, then I go about my business (talking on the phone, keep walking, etc), then I see this person again and he says to me 'why are you here', and I say something back and a confrontation ensues, I'd be perfectly in the right of anything I do to the person who confronted me, because I didn't like him watching me and asking a question?

If you took the gun out the equation and the events happened the exact same way, with an assumption that TM started the physical confrontation, could GZ not press charges for assault?

BBM

Yes, he absolutely could have! He would probably have won damages based on the degree of his injuries. Wouldn't that have been a better outcome than the one we have now?

 

[Adrienne37]

“Stand Your Ground” Causes Controversy Again in Florida Courtroom
Civil right groups stand behind Marissa Alexander who, in a domestic fight with her husband, fired a single shot and now faces a 20-year prison sentence.

Florida’s "Stand Your Ground" law, which some have described as “unjust” and “unfair,” has become more well-known and debated following the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

The law can keep a shooter out of jail, but it can also put you behind bars, as a new case involving a Florida mother shows.

According to the “official” blog site for Marissa Alexander, on Aug. 1, 2010, the 31-year-old mother of three was in a fight with her husband who had every intention of killing her, Alexander says. The couple had been in previous fights, and because of that, she obtained a concealed weapon permit to keep her safe.


http://www.bet.com/news/national/20...s-controversy-again-in-florida-courtroom.html

 

[Elley Mae]

Here is why MOM stood in front of the camera so you could not see Zimmerman's face while he offered his condolences. IMO

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060505161952.htm

ScienceDaily (May 5, 2006) — When trying to lie your way through any situation, keep a tight rein on your zygo maticus major and your orbicularis oculi. They'll give you away faster than a snitch.

So says social psychologist Mark Frank, whose revolutionary research on human facial expressions in situations of high stakes deception debunks myths that have permeated police and security training for decades. His work has come to be recognized by security officials in the U.S. and abroad as very useful tool in the identification and interrogation of terrorism suspects.

thanks,
So he too worked as a bouncer.

from same article
Frank says he began to develop identification skills when he was bouncer in a Buffalo bar

 

[suspicious1]

Trayvon is DEAD, so how do you prove that he really wasn't in fear? What you can do is look at his behavior immediately prior to the incident and that will tell you some things, what is far more telling is GZ's behavior immediately prior to the incident.

I just don't think that who threw the first punch is relevant when you take into the entire situation....GZ began the incident with the call and ended it with the shooting and he had control and could have exited stage left at any time between the beginning and the end, who threw the first punch is IMO irrelevant to the fact that the whole train was started by GZ and his loaded gun. IMO JMHO and stuff.

I don't think it's relevant either. When you look at the events that happened BEFORE the "confrontation how can anyone justify the actual shooting?

Did GZ fear for his life while sitting in his car? NO
if he did GZ wouldn't have gotten out of his car.

Did GZ fear for his life when he continued to follow Tray? NO
if he did he would have never ended up exchanging words with Tray face to face.

IMO, here you have GZ moving TOWARDS the confrontation because Tray was moving AWAY from it.

So how can anyone justify GZ killing this boy? Really I would just prefer someone to just tell me that they could care less about some young black teen being shot down than try to justify the killing.

 

[jaded cat]

Yes, carrying the gun in his hand would be brandishing a weapon and it is exactly why GZ didn't say that. IMO and only my opinion, GZ had his weapon in hand when the confrontation happened, that is why TM responded the way he did, and why GZs only real injury is the wound to his head. His hands were on his gun when hit the ground and didn't break his fall. TMs only injury is the gunshot, GZ never struck him because his hands were on his gun. Speculation and totally unprovable, not enough to hang a case on.

Jesus wept. lease:

 

[impatientredhead]

I think he was wearing an oversize suit to hide the bullet proof vest he had on.

They could have left him in prison orange and put a vest over him if safety was the primary concern.

Defense asked to have the clothing changed but never requested the shackles be removed for a reason, public perception, image control. The desired image was persecuted, weak, small. Wrongfully charged.

That was no accident, IMO of course.

 

[Rob774]

As we know, this wasn't a slam-dunk competition, but hand to hand combat (grappling, to be more specific). One of my friends was an olympian in freestyle wrestling -- he told me that the peak age for wrestlers (and grapplers in general) was between 28-32. You'll see very few olympic wrestlers in the 17-19 year age range, and none of TM's height and weight.

Okay?

I was using that as my own example, stating only ability i lost was a few inches of jump, but my overall power increased between the ages of 17-28. I believe we are trying to say the same thing...

 

[cityslick]

BBM

Yes, he absolutely could have! He would probably have won damages based on the degree of his injuries. Wouldn't that have been a better outcome than the one we have now?

Yes, but you just are admitting that TM would have no right to strike him, to stand his ground simply because GZ was following him.

 

[chefmom]

And I can't wait to hear his answers, to those questions. I think his major slipup was not realizing that when he called LE dispatch the calls are recorded and timestamped and just did not think out a reasonable timeframe for him to be where he was, he just knew he could not admit to following and trying to stop Trayvon...and it's going to bite him in the Keister. IMO JMHO and stuff.

BBM

ITA! As his "friend" stated, "he thought this would all just blow over." After all, he was Captain of the Watch and Keeper of the Complex. Even some of the neighbors, who also, coincidentally, were AA, stated that they couldn't walk in their own neighborhood comfortably. I think that speaks volumes. JMO

 

[CHICANA]

You do have a right to confront anyone you choose, but that person also has a right to react based on how they perceive the confrontation. It is not against the law, per se, to follow (or CHASE) anyone, but it does have the potential to create a hostile situation. It's aggravating, and if you are pursuing someone, you are the aggressor. Under no circumstance is someone who is running AWAY posing an active threat to a person who is following them. I'd have to double check, but I don't even think police officers can use deadly force on a fleeing felon. This situation, in my opinion, is not a series of events as some like to portray it. It's one continuous occurrence; from the time GZ got out of his car and started following Trayvon, he was the aggressor.

Like fruits from a bad tree, GZ cannot be the pursuer, the chaser, the follower, the aggressor up until the actual confrontation happens. That makes no sense. He initiated the confrontation. Trayvon had no reason to approach him, he wasn't the one who had deemed someone suspicious and decided that the person would not get away.

I don't think any lawyer would go into court and say "sure, my client was following the victim, but the victim completely overreacted and became aggressive." That's what's being argued on this forum. It's completely flawed logic IMO.

Most reasonable people don't follow people who they deem to be "suspicious", and most reasonable people would be fearful if a stranger was following them. Jurors are reasonable people.

JMO MOO IMO

If someone was following me and I had a cell phone in my hand, I'd be on the phone with 911 in a heartbeat. I think TM was mad that GZ was following him and attacked him because he didn't see him as a threat. It's my opinion and it's subject to change.

 

[Montjoy]

Okay?

I was using that as my own example, stating only ability i lost was a few inches of jump, but my overall power increased between the ages of 17-28. I believe we are trying to say the same thing...

Yes, sorry that the tone made it seem like I was disagreeing with you -- I was not. I thought what you wrote was completely on point.

 

[impatientredhead]

I don't think it's relevant either. When you look at the events that happened BEFORE the "confrontation how can anyone justify the actual shooting?

Did GZ fear for his life while sitting in his car? NO
if he did GZ wouldn't have gotten out of his car.

Did GZ fear for his life when he continued to follow Tray? NO
if he did he would have never ended up exchanging words with Tray face to face.

IMO, here you have GZ moving TOWARDS the confrontation because Tray was moving AWAY from it.

So how can anyone justify GZ killing this boy? Really I would just prefer someone to just tell me that they could care less about some young black teen being shot down than try to justify the killing.

To me here is the rub, I have not seen anyone say GZ was justified. Seen lots of debate about the law and how it applies. But even the people who think as it is written he walks have all said it is wrong and needs to be fixed. I have not read every post and I rarely read on the unmoderated boards because the racial and idiotic arguments that take over 99 percent of the topics, especially this one.

Do I think GZ was justified in shooting TM, no, not at all. I think GZ put himself in harms way and then claimed to be in fear. Well if I step off the curb into the way of a bus I am going to be afraid too, doesn't mean the bus driver could have done something different to avoid it.

Do I think GZ is being prosecuted solely because this case came under political pressure, based on them not filing the first time they had the option too, the previous cases which will probably lead to his eventual immunity, etc.... yes I think he was charged because of public outrage.

That is fine with me though. Something was going to happen to bring this legal standard into a bright light and think everyone agrees that needs to happen. IMO etc

 

[Adrienne37]

And I can't wait to hear his answers, to those questions. I think his major slipup was not realizing that when he called LE dispatch the calls are recorded and timestamped and just did not think out a reasonable timeframe for him to be where he was, he just knew he could not admit to following and trying to stop Trayvon...and it's going to bite him in the Keister. IMO JMHO and stuff.

I think his not realizing that Trayvon was on the phone himself is also going to come back to bite him in the rear as well.


~jmo~