Why hasn't there been an arrest?

[RANCH]

no arrest for what? a missing baby . . .

The original post does ask "If Deborah is guilty, why hasn't she been arrested"?

If Lisa is missing because an intruder took her, that could be why she hasn't been arrested. Or she is guilty and LE has no evidence to prove it. JMO.

 

[RANCH]

I'm not talking about LE here. I'm just referring to the media's actions. I don't even think LE has made any (or barely any) statements or held any press conferences in a long time. What I'm saying is after the cadaver dog hit came out, the media is still pushing the theory that Lisa could be alive. They barely even mention the hit anymore. If the media started to aggressively mention the hit, what else is there to talk about? They need to keep the idea out there that Lisa could be alive, that someone else could have taken her, that Deborah could have sold her, etc because that will keep the story going. What's the point of having D&J on their shows if a cadaver dog hit in their house? There is NO point; So the cadaver dog hit isn't even mentioned during their appearances. "Here's D&J to talk about how someone tried to change their daughter's name...even though a cadaver dog hit in their house!" Yeah, no.

How many high-profile cases can you name where the child was missing, whether they were found alive, dead, or never found? I can think of many. And in all of those cases, pleas from the parents, press conferences from LE for help, searches with thousands of people, sightings across the US, reports on whether findings were legitimate or not, etc fueled the media coverage. Now, how many high-profile cases can you name where the child was never missing and always known to be killed? I can only think of two. Mark Fuhrman's revelation that the media "needs" the child to be missing for as long as possible made a lot of sense to me when I consider how just a few days after the cadaver dog hit, the media is back to the usual, "The Search for Lisa"

We're going off topic by excluding LE from the equation, but I do agree that most of the time the media works for their own gain and not that of victims they cover.

In this case however I believe it would have been wrong for the media to come out and say that Lisa is dead from the report of the cadaver dog hit in the house. It's just not 100%. It certainly wasn't enough for LE to say that she's dead.

Maybe there is more evidence unknown to us and the media that will show that Lisa is deceased. I haven't seen that yet. JMO.

 

[Kos]

Sorry that I am so far behind you all! I have only just known about this case for a few days! I have just watched this video:

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/lisa-irwins-parents-to-speak-with-today-show

OK, for starters, I'm not at all comfortable with Jeremy Irwin's body language. He looks nervous and awkward, and I feel that a lot of what he and (mostly) Deborah said in this interview was unnecessary, such as the part where they were thanking people, like the police department and the FBI. IMO it was said by them to take the focus off what they know that everyone is thinking, which is that they know what happened to Lisa. The question asked of them was not 'who would you like to thank?' so I think they intentionally went off track a bit. When Jeremy answered questions, he sounded completely unconvincing, and watch his hands! Nervous fidgeting. Classic lying sign, I think.

Deborah's crying abruptly started and seemed to stop just as abruptly. This interview was given mere days after their daughter was supposedly abducted. How would any grieving parents NOT be in a million pieces at this point? And why are they both sitting that way? Not leaning on each other for support and not comforting each other, except when she put her hand on his lap? It's so weird. I'd love to see a body language expert's interpretation. I think it's too dangerous for them both to share the questions and interview equally, which is why she is the one doing most of the talking. She butted in at one point and took over from what he was saying. I just don't trust these two at all.

Also, at the very end when the interview is over, watch Deborah's shoulders visibly relax. I see that as her breathing out a huge sigh of relief that the charade is over for the time being. (The top video on the page - there are 2.)

They seem to have said too many times 'we don't care about XXXX' and 'we're not angry'. Who would think to even say that at that point in time? I think they have thought too hard about what to say to sound genuine, and they failed. Badly.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

We're going of topic by excluding LE from the equation, but I do agree that most of the time the media works for their own gain and not that of victims they cover.

In this case however I believe it would have been wrong for the media to come out and say that Lisa is dead from the report of the cadaver dog hit in the house. It's just not 100%. It certainly wasn't enough for LE to say that she's dead.

Maybe there is more evidence unknown to us and the media that will show that Lisa is deceased. I haven't seen that yet. JMO.

Yeah, I'm not saying that the media should have a big headline: CADAVER DOG GETS HIT IN IRWIN HOUSE. LISA IS DEAD."

Biut just imagine if every time, after October 21, when the media talked about the case, they mentioned the cadaver dog hit.

Cadaver dog gets hit in Irwin house; Here is Tacopina to talk about the "blob"
Cadaver dog gets hit in Irwin house; Here are D&J to talk about their missing credit cards.
Cadaver dog gets hit in Irwin house; Police investigate sightings across the US.

So I feel like the media has to disregard the cadaver dog to keep "selling" the case to the public.

 

[RANCH]

Yeah, I'm not saying that the media should have a big headline: CADAVER DOG GETS HIT IN IRWIN HOUSE. LISA IS DEAD."

Biut just imagine if every time, after October 21, when the media talked about the case, they mentioned the cadaver dog hit.

Cadaver dog gets hit in Irwin house; Here is Tacopina to talk about the "blob"
Cadaver dog gets hit in Irwin house; Here are D&J to talk about their missing credit cards.
Cadaver dog gets hit in Irwin house; Police investigate sightings across the US.

So I feel like the media has to disregard the cadaver dog to keep "selling" the case to the public.

I don't remember having that impression of the media coverage at that time, ie. them leaving out the cadaver dog hit in their reporting of the case.

It was brought up in the Dr Phil interview.

Dr.Phil: Deb, the police came in with cadaver dogs. Uh, and it has been reported that they had a hit in the bedroom on the rug in the master bedroom, where you say you fell asleep. So, what actually took place there, and what do you have to say about the fact that they say the cadaver dogs had a positive hit?

DB: Well, I'll let Joe take this, but I want to say this first. That nothing is missing from my bedroom where this supposed hit happened, um, they didn't take not a thing from my room. That carpet, that everybody seen on the news being hauled up from the bottom of my driveway, came from a barn in the back of the house. So if a cadaver dog hit, why didn't they take anything with them? Why is there no evidence?

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7570535&postcount=1280"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Deborah Bradley & Jeremy Irwin - Dr. Phil Interview - 3 February 2012 #2[/ame]


http://www.kmbc.com/Baby-Lisa-s-Par...-3/-/11664900/13437836/-/kvj78uz/-/index.html

 

[Jacie Estes]

The original post does ask "If Deborah is guilty, why hasn't she been arrested"?

If Lisa is missing because an intruder took her, that could be why she hasn't been arrested. Or she is guilty and LE has no evidence to prove it. JMO.

Even with the ' overwhelming evidence', as some proclaim, there is still no arrest. Wonder why that is? Perhaps innocence has something to do with it?

 

[KsStormy]

Exactly!! ,... and if there is no evidence of how or why she died, then why do some assume that she did? That's what boggles my mind.

Cadaver dog hit.

 

[KsStormy]

Sorry that I am so far behind you all! I have only just known about this case for a few days! I have just watched this video:

http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/lisa-irwins-parents-to-speak-with-today-show

OK, for starters, I'm not at all comfortable with Jeremy Irwin's body language. He looks nervous and awkward, and I feel that a lot of what he and (mostly) Deborah said in this interview was unnecessary, such as the part where they were thanking people, like the police department and the FBI. IMO it was said by them to take the focus off what they know that everyone is thinking, which is that they know what happened to Lisa. The question asked of them was not 'who would you like to thank?' so I think they intentionally went off track a bit. When Jeremy answered questions, he sounded completely unconvincing, and watch his hands! Nervous fidgeting. Classic lying sign, I think.

Deborah's crying abruptly started and seemed to stop just as abruptly. This interview was given mere days after their daughter was supposedly abducted. How would any grieving parents NOT be in a million pieces at this point? And why are they both sitting that way? Not leaning on each other for support and not comforting each other, except when she put her hand on his lap? It's so weird. I'd love to see a body language expert's interpretation. I think it's too dangerous for them both to share the questions and interview equally, which is why she is the one doing most of the talking. She butted in at one point and took over from what he was saying. I just don't trust these two at all.

Also, at the very end when the interview is over, watch Deborah's shoulders visibly relax. I see that as her breathing out a huge sigh of relief that the charade is over for the time being. (The top video on the page - there are 2.)

They seem to have said too many times 'we don't care about XXXX' and 'we're not angry'. Who would think to even say that at that point in time? I think they have thought too hard about what to say to sound genuine, and they failed. Badly.

A LOT of the things they have said haven't come to be, such as they will do anything to find her, which they haven't. I haven't seen them organize one vigil or any other event to keep her name out there. They also said we will get sick of seeing them, & they still shun local media,except the day of Dr Phil. DB also said she doesn't care what people say about her on the internet, but then she has an army of family & friends on social media threatening & harassing anyone who doesn't think they are innocent. None of it gels with innocence.
MOO
:moo:

 

[redheadedgal]

redheadedgal, I've been wanting to tell you, that is a beautiful dog.

thank you-- i wish he was mine lol

... the report of the cadaver dog hit in the house. It's just not 100%. It certainly wasn't enough for LE to say that she's dead.

your retirement fund: would you invest in funds with a >90% possibility not losing money/making money or would you invest in funds with a <10% possibility of not losing money/making money?? i don't think i know anyone who would take the <10 over the >90 ...

i read something earlier this afternn that reinforced my belief that LE does think she's dead:

KCMOPD just released their annual report for 2011... pp. 16/17 mention lisa...

notice it does not say "lisa was kidnapped from her home" but instead it says "the parents... told police the baby was kidnapped..."

sounds like LE doesn't believe their claim imo.

http://www.kcmo.org/idc/groups/police/documents/police/annual2011finalonlineversion_l.html

 

[RANCH]

thank you-- i wish he was mine lol




your retirement fund: would you invest in funds with a >90% possibility not losing money/making money or would you invest in funds with a <10% possibility of not losing money/making money?? i don't think i know anyone who would take the <10 over the >90 ...

i read something earlier this afternn that reinforced my belief that LE does think she's dead:

KCMOPD just released their annual report for 2011... pp. 16/17 mention lisa...

notice it does not say "lisa was kidnapped from her home" but instead it says "the parents... told police the baby was kidnapped..."

sounds like LE doesn't believe their claim imo.

http://www.kcmo.org/idc/groups/police/documents/police/annual2011finalonlineversion_l.html

BBM
Maybe LE does think that Lisa's dead, but their silence on the subject suggests to me that they don't have enough evidence to make that announcement. I don't get your retirement fund comment. JMO.

 

[krimekat]

Cadaver dog hit.

we have gone 'round & 'round about the validity of one hit . . . not enough for me :fence: while it may be an opinion that one hit is enough evidence to prove there was a decomposing body somewhere in the house, it still is not enough "evidence" for an arrest in this case (or any other as proved by our awesome 'sleuthers).

I picture Pumpkin Pie with Madeline somewhere playing together (as well as all other "missing" kids)

 

[hambirg]

Exactly!! ,... and if there is no evidence of how or why she died, then why do some assume that she did? That's what boggles my mind.

This is why there hasn't been an arrest!

It's very difficult to prosecute a homicide without a cause of death or a crime scene. Many people will think that it means there is no evidence of a homicide, while that isn't really true. There CAN be evidence of a death (like the dog hit) without knowing the cause of death.

With a typical crime, the first thing that happens is a body is found and that is how LE even knows a crime has occurred. The body will give up COD and sometimes where the body is found will be the crime scene or lead to a weapon.

When somebody is reported missing and still hasn't been found. The case has to be worked backwards, with the COD and crime scene usually being the last info that is discovered.

So MOO that is the problem here. I believe that LE has evidence that BL is no longer alive. I think they know that DB/JI know that and are involved in a cover-up. BUT I believe that they probably don't have enough evidence as to what really exactly happened or how BL died. That is hard to prosecute. We saw in the CA trial that the "it was an accident" defense can cause problems with a jury. :banghead:

 

[hambirg]

BBM
Maybe LE does think that Lisa's dead, but their silence on the subject suggests to me that they don't have enough evidence to make that announcement. I don't get your retirement fund comment. JMO.

What would they gain by announcing that? I'm sure LE believes she is dead and it doesn't benefit them at all to announce that to the public, so they won't.

 

[RANCH]

What would they gain by announcing that? I'm sure LE believes she is dead and it doesn't benefit them at all to announce that to the public, so they won't.

It would benefit the public if they made an announcement saying that they have solid evidence that Lisa's dead. People would no longer be on the lookout for her.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

It would benefit the public if they made an announcement saying that they have solid evidence that Lisa's dead. People would no longer be on the lookout for her.

LE said they only received a few tips in March, so I don't think they are getting many (or really any) sightings, so they probably just don't care if people are looking for Lisa at their local supermarket.

 

[RANCH]

LE said they only received a few tips in March, so I don't think they are getting many (or really any) sightings, so they probably just don't care if people are looking for Lisa at their local supermarket.

In my opinion the number of tips that LE receive should not be a factor in people being on the lookout for missing Lisa Irwin. Again, if LE has solid evidence that she's dead, then they should let the public know.

There are cold cases here on Websleuths that I'm sure generate very few new tips. Does that mean people should not be aware of them and keep an eye out for them? I hope that people would, even if it's a remote possibility that they may be alive. They deserve the chance to be found. JMO.

 

[norest4thewicked]

This is why there hasn't been an arrest!

It's very difficult to prosecute a homicide without a cause of death or a crime scene. Many people will think that it means there is no evidence of a homicide, while that isn't really true. There CAN be evidence of a death (like the dog hit) without knowing the cause of death.

With a typical crime, the first thing that happens is a body is found and that is how LE even knows a crime has occurred. The body will give up COD and sometimes where the body is found will be the crime scene or lead to a weapon.

When somebody is reported missing and still hasn't been found. The case has to be worked backwards, with the COD and crime scene usually being the last info that is discovered.

So MOO that is the problem here. I believe that LE has evidence that BL is no longer alive. I think they know that DB/JI know that and are involved in a cover-up. BUT I believe that they probably don't have enough evidence as to what really exactly happened or how BL died. That is hard to prosecute. We saw in the CA trial that the "it was an accident" defense can cause problems with a jury. :banghead:

Amen to this!

 

[norest4thewicked]

It would benefit the public if they made an announcement saying that they have solid evidence that Lisa's dead. People would no longer be on the lookout for her.

Honestly...LE doesn't really care what the public thinks about a case in terms of media coverage, unless it could benefit them in the case. In Lisa's case, it wouldn't really matter if they did or didn't proclaim that they thought Lisa was no longer alive. Even if they did announce that they thought that Lisa was gone, there would still be people who wouldn't agree and would continue to look.

 

[norest4thewicked]

we have gone 'round & 'round about the validity of one hit . . . not enough for me :fence: while it may be an opinion that one hit is enough evidence to prove there was a decomposing body somewhere in the house, it still is not enough "evidence" for an arrest in this case (or any other as proved by our awesome 'sleuthers).

I picture Pumpkin Pie with Madeline somewhere playing together (as well as all other "missing" kids)

Unfortunately, I picture Lisa and Madeline playing together too with a lot of other missing kids, but not anywhere on this earth...

 

[eileenhawkeye]

In my opinion the number of tips that LE receive should not be a factor in people being on the lookout for missing Lisa Irwin. Again, if LE has solid evidence that she's dead, then they should let the public know.

There are cold cases here on Websleuths that I'm sure generate very few new tips. Does that mean people should not be aware of them and keep an eye out for them? I hope that people would, even if it's a remote possibility that they may be alive. They deserve the chance to be found. JMO.

That wasn't what I was saying at all. My point was that I don't think LE cares enough to make an announcement that they believe Lisa is dead, because they aren't receiving any (or barely any) sightings. It's not a nuisance. They aren't spending money and resources to check out any sightings.