Max Shacknai EMS Report

[katydid23]

The FACT is, katydid23, none of us know what happened to Maxie. Not you, not me and certainly not Dina (I hope). IMO, the people who are "blaming" Rebecca for Maxie's death are doing so without rational reasoning.

So there you go.

I am not totally 'blaming' her, but I do think she held some responsibility because of the circumstances. When you are watching a young child, and they die in a horrific accident, then some partial blame is there, imo.

And I think it is rational. Whatever happened, it was risky, dangerous and obvious. JMO

 

[inthedark14]

That was from the little Coronado paper back in the beginning, but the articles aren't preserved/ From memory she said she saw him in the kitchen last and then she went to the bathroom, and 20 minutes later she

Have you found those links that say she called herself by another name in front of his kids?

Ok. So we can't prove that. Thanks for clearing that up. I am not sure what you are talking about regarding her name...what did RZ call herself in front of his kids?

 

[katydid23]

Give me a link to show it has been verified.

Isn't it in the police incident report that only two women were present?

 

[katydid23]

Ok. So we can't prove that. Thanks for clearing that up. I am not sure what you are talking about regarding her name...what did RZ call herself in front of his kids?

No, I can't prove that, But I will go back in the archives and see if I can find some posts discussing the article. Because it was talked about at the time.

 

[inthedark14]

Isn't it in the police incident report that only two women were present?

The police report is the reason this is still being discussed and why DS and the Z family are desperately trying to have the cases reopened. So if that's the source...sigh.

Also it wasn't two women. It was a woman and a minor.

 

[K_Z]

And even if it is an accident, when you are the adult in charge of a 6 yr old, and they break their neck in a horrific fall, you don't think you will be blamed?

Just a point of clarification, as this has been posted twice in this thread today.

Max did not have a broken neck.

He had no fractures or dislocations of any of his vertebrae. He had very significant skull trauma, and a 7 1/2 inch sagittal fracture (which is simply enormous, given the size of his head), and he had a very high spinal cord injury (top 2 cm of his spinal cord). His brain and spinal cord injuries were devastating, and produced cardiac arrest at the scene, IMO, on impact. But he did not have a broken neck.

The fall was horrific, and could have happened in seconds. It is absurd to hold Rebecca responsible for that, particluarly when Max's own parents allowed him to play with the scooter inside the house on the second floor. Dina, in an interview, said she allowed Max to play rambunctiously inside the house, and said there were often balls and other "outside" toys laying around inside her home as well. Rebecca may have been in a tough spot-- if Max's -parents approved of letting him play with his scooter inside on the second floor (which it appears they did), and she did not approve, that sets up a confrontational scenario. It's not like Max snuck the scooter inside and upstairs-- he was allowed to have it up there, from every indication. That was an accident waiting to happen, imo.

The minor XZ reported to police that the evening of her arrival Max was demonstrating his scooter prowess to her on the second floor hallway. Which other adults were in the home at that time?

It is absurd, imo, to hold Rebecca responsible for this kind of accident. Kids sneak around and do all sorts of things. Max liked to show off-- it's entirely possible he was showing off a balancing trick with his scooter on the newel post and fell.

 

[katydid23]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7149511&postcount=790"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.[/ame]

SunnieRN
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,419
Point three. Max was in the kitchen having breakfast. Rebecca went to the downstairs powder room, where she states she stayed for 10 minutes.

While this occurs, in the same article as the above information appeared, it states that Jonah Shacknai was going to the gym. His course to the gym, is spelled out in minute detail. Why is this? I found that very strange. ==========================


I stand corrected. She said 10 minutes. She saw Max in the kitchen then she went to the downstairs powder room for ten minutes.

 

[katydid23]

Just a point of clarification, as this has been posted twice in this thread today.

Max did not have a broken neck.

He had no fractures or dislocations of any of his vertebrae. He had very significant skull trauma, and a 7 1/2 inch sagittal fracture (which is simply enormous, given the size of his head), and he had a very high spinal cord injury (top 2 cm of his spinal cord). His brain and spinal cord injuries were devastating, and produced cardiac arrest at the scene, IMO, on impact. But he did not have a broken neck.

The fall was horrific, and could have happened in seconds. It is absurd to hold Rebecca responsible for that, particluarly when Max's own parents allowed him to play with the scooter inside the house on the second floor. Dina, in an interview, said she allowed Max to play rambunctiously inside the house, and said there were often balls and other "outside" toys laying around inside her home as well. Rebecca may have been in a tough spot-- if Max's -parents approved of letting him play with his scooter inside on the second floor (which it appears they did), and she did not approve, that sets up a confrontational scenario. It's not like Max snuck the scooter inside and upstairs-- he was allowed to have it up there, from every indication. That was an accident waiting to happen, imo.

The minor XZ reported to police that the evening of her arrival Max was demonstrating his scooter prowess to her on the second floor landing. Which other adults were in the home at that time?

It is absurd, imo, to hold Rebecca responsible for this kind of accident. Kids sneak around and do all sorts of things. Max liked to show off-- it's entirely possible he was showing off a balancing trick on the newel post and fell.

I was using broken neck as a figure of speech.

I am not sure I believe everything that X has stated. Some of it is not credible, imo. She did say however, that his scooter went very slow on the carpet.

Who was he showing off to when he fell? I thought X was 'in the shower' and RZ was ' in the powder room?'

And sure, falling would happen in seconds. But the prelude would take quite awhile. If he was planking or getting a ball from the chandelier than she was neglecting her duties as his caretaker, imo. It was her job to prevent actions like that. JMO

 

[screecher]

I am not totally 'blaming' her, but I do think she held some responsibility because of the circumstances. When you are watching a young child, and they die in a horrific accident, then some partial blame is there, imo.

And I think it is rational. Whatever happened, it was risky, dangerous and obvious. JMO

BBM

See, the thing is...the circumstances are truly unknown. <modsnip>, IMO.

 

[katydid23]

BBM

See, the thing is...the circumstances are truly unknown. <modsnip>, IMO.

The circumstances are not fully unknown. RZ was the adult in charge. There were no other adults there when Maxie fell. I do not believe that flimsy accusation that Jonah was there, then went hiding in the basement.

RZ was the adult in charge. <modsnip>, imo.

 

[screecher]

The circumstances are not fully unknown. RZ was the adult in charge. There were no other adults there when Maxie fell. I do not believe that flimsy accusation that Jonah was there, then went hiding in the basement.

RZ was the adult in charge. <modsnip> imo.

As long as JS, ES, GS and DR whereabouts have not been verified I don't consider it a fact RZ was the only adult in the mansion at that time. <modsnip>.

 

[katydid23]

As long as JS, ES, GS and DR whereabouts have not been verified I don't consider it a fact RZ was the only adult in the mansion at that time. <modsnip>.

So you believe that when little Maxie fell to his death, his family ran and hid in the garage until the EMT's left?

 

[katydid23]

Why would Jonah run and hide after Maxie fell? Can someone explain that theory to me?

 

[Inparadise]

The circumstances are not fully unknown. RZ was the adult in charge. There were no other adults there when Maxie fell. I do not believe that flimsy accusation that Jonah was there, then went hiding in the basement.

RZ was the adult in charge. <modsnip>, imo.

You don't know for fact that Rebecca was the only adult present, nor do any of us........nor do we know that another adult, and perhaps a parent of Max, was present. None of this has been verified beyond "Jonah said he was at the gym".

 

[katydid23]

You don't know for fact that Rebecca was the only adult present, nor do any of us........nor do we know that another adult, and perhaps a parent of Max, was present. None of this has been verified beyond "Jonah said he was at the gym".

well, please help me understand your theory then. Did Jonah see maxie fall, and then he ran and hid in the basement? Why wouldn't he stay with his dying son? If you are going to discount the police report, you need a solid reason.

Why would Jonah run away from his dying son? Why would he lie to investigators about not being there?

 

[katydid23]

You don't know for fact that Rebecca was the only adult present, nor do any of us........nor do we know that another adult, and perhaps a parent of Max, was present. None of this has been verified beyond "Jonah said he was at the gym".

You can say ' it has not been verified' about almost any facts in the case. It has not been 'verified' that X was really her sister either. It has not been 'verified' that her cuts from the glass did not happen during the accident. I don't think we are allowed to list things that have not 'been verified' and then post them and assume they are true. JMO

 

[Inparadise]

well, please help me understand your theory then. Did Jonah see maxie fall, and then he ran and hid in the basement? Why wouldn't he stay with his dying son? If you are going to discount the police report, you need a solid reason.

Why would Jonah run away from his dying son? Why would he lie to investigators about not being there?

Only Jonah can answer that.......I of course have my opinions on the matter.

 

[Salem]

Lots of bickering going on in here, guys, and 99.9% of it is OFF TOPIC. Knock it off. Stick to the subject and QUIT going at each other.

Salem

 

[bourne]

Just a point of clarification, as this has been posted twice in this thread today.

Max did not have a broken neck.

He had no fractures or dislocations of any of his vertebrae. He had very significant skull trauma, and a 7 1/2 inch sagittal fracture (which is simply enormous, given the size of his head), and he had a very high spinal cord injury (top 2 cm of his spinal cord). His brain and spinal cord injuries were devastating, and produced cardiac arrest at the scene, IMO, on impact. But he did not have a broken neck.

The fall was horrific, and could have happened in seconds. It is absurd to hold Rebecca responsible for that, particluarly when Max's own parents allowed him to play with the scooter inside the house on the second floor. Dina, in an interview, said she allowed Max to play rambunctiously inside the house, and said there were often balls and other "outside" toys laying around inside her home as well. Rebecca may have been in a tough spot-- if Max's -parents approved of letting him play with his scooter inside on the second floor (which it appears they did), and she did not approve, that sets up a confrontational scenario. It's not like Max snuck the scooter inside and upstairs-- he was allowed to have it up there, from every indication. That was an accident waiting to happen, imo.

The minor XZ reported to police that the evening of her arrival Max was demonstrating his scooter prowess to her on the second floor hallway. Which other adults were in the home at that time?

It is absurd, imo, to hold Rebecca responsible for this kind of accident. Kids sneak around and do all sorts of things. Max liked to show off-- it's entirely possible he was showing off a balancing trick with his scooter on the newel post and fell.

Agree. Unless those who claim Rebecca is responsible for Max's accident can assert they're watching over their own children 100% of the time -- meaning they never take bathroom breaks on their own without their children in hand, or they never do anything else like get a cup of coffee from the kitchen without holding onto their children to prevent any possible accident from happening -- I don't believe they can honestly blame Rebecca without feeling hypocritical.

 

[jjenny]

Agree. Unless those who claim Rebecca is responsible for Max's accident can assert they're watching over their own children 100% of the time -- meaning they never take bathroom breaks on their own without their children in hand, or they never do anything else like get a cup of coffee from the kitchen without holding onto their children to prevent any possible accident from happening -- I don't believe they can honestly blame Rebecca without feeling hypocritical.

ITA. Everybody has to use a restroom now and then.