CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #12

[izzyblizzy]

I wasn't thinking it was just an email, I meant what kind of person would go anywhere near a kid he doesn't know, or chase one for any reason? The fact that there are still people doing this after everything that happened, just makes me wonder what the heck is going on here?

I think it is probably normal for abduction reports to skyrocket around a case like this. Parents and children are more likely to freak out than before this happened.

As an example, I was going down I-70 the day after the pic of that blue car was shown in Golden. Fortunately, I had already seen on the Sunday morning news that the kid had turned himself in. But I was behind a car, same color, same spoiler, looked like same wheel spokes and probably would have called 911 because I was hyper alert about that specific car.

 

[Shelby2]

OK my mistake, he says "COULD be experienced"

"Former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt said the condition of the body could indicate an experienced killer. "It's someone who's fully capable of doing something like this again," he said, NBC News reports."

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1630725?articlePage=0

 

[absentia]

yes, I think self defense training and practice helps much more. you think you'll do something and then you find you panic and freeze. I learned that when I was almost mugged.

Very true.

It has been known for a long time that the vast majority of soldiers do not shoot to kill when on the battlefield. Only 10% do. And this is after 16 weeks of basic training, in a situation where they know their own life is at stake.

It takes the military a long time to train people to the level where they will predictably shoot to kill when threatened. Over a year. And that is with full time, immersion style training.

While it can't hurt to teach kids not to comply with threats designed to take them somewhere isolated, it won't necessarily help either.

There are three main responses to immediate danger: flight, freeze or fight. The majority of people have either flight or freeze. I only know one person who consistently fights and that is my brother. Ever since he was tiny, when startled he comes around with his fists.

And as I used to joke when he was bugging the heck out of his older sister, he wasn't abused ENOUGH!

No one trained him to fight as his first response, it is just part of who he is.

 

[KellysGal]

What I'm wondering is how anyone could say whether a person crossed over, under, or through the fence ... unless there was a piece of the black trash bag snagged on the bottom wire of the fence. Additionally, if it can be said that the bag went under the fence, how can it be concluded that a person took something under the fence ... why not an animal?

I would assume from footprints. JMO

 

[absentia]

the desc sounds like the Arvada lurings from Nov 2011.

Thanks for the post!

It is making its rounds on the local news-here is one report

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21794096/

 

[thess]

OK my mistake, he says "COULD be experienced"

"Former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt said the condition of the body could indicate an experienced killer. "It's someone who's fully capable of doing something like this again," he said, NBC News reports."

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1630725?articlePage=0

I'm also not familiar enough with this site to know if a "former FBI profiler" (i.e., someone who is apparently no longer employed by the FBI) is considered a legit LE source of info, or if he's just someone the media calls up when they need an expert's opinion.

I did find this (the initial FBI profile):

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_21751844/fbi-denver-press-release-involving-missing-jessica-ridgeway

And also this quote:

Former FBI Colorado Special Agent in Charge Bob Pence says now is the time to keep your kids close because whoever killed Jessica is still out there.

"I think everybody needs to be careful. In this case we have what I consider a pretty clear and imminent danger that it could very well happen again," Pence said.

Pence says a number of factors indicate the suspect is probably a local.

BBM. Again--'former'. (Is this normal for crime reporting?) It's actually (seemingly) impossible to find a direct quote from a currently-employed member of LE on the case saying anything speculative about the killer at all.

(I'm used to discussing other stuff on the 'net where fact and citations are king, so if I seem nitpicky that's why. I don't know if you all consider a former-LEO's consultant-type opinion to be as good as an official statement from the police chief or what. )

Gonna keep looking, though, because this has my curiosity piqued.

 

[absentia]

let's just hope we only one have on these perps out there and if he's actively trying to abduct he'll get caught.

Another attempted abduction in JeffCo.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/police-man-tried-to-abduct-teen-in-jefferson-county

 

[hollyblue]

I wasn't thinking it was just an email, I meant what kind of person would go anywhere near a kid he doesn't know, or chase one for any reason? The fact that there are still people doing this after everything that happened, just makes me wonder what the heck is going on here?

That's what I'm wondering too. You would think with the attention this case is getting they would know LE and EVERYONE is more aware, so why take the chance now? Maybe the child made it up for attention? Very bold perp if true.

 

[absentia]

honey, this IS Mayberry!

:notgood:

And near a school... Seems to be some perps MO b/c that's where the kids are, or are coming/going. Makes me wish for Mayberry.

 

[scorekeeper]

OK my mistake, he says "COULD be experienced"

"Former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt said the condition of the body could indicate an experienced killer. "It's someone who's fully capable of doing something like this again," he said, NBC News reports."

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1630725?articlePage=0

I had posted earlier about the same - and NO i could not find anything from LE
that said he did this before - so my bad too!

 

[Theforeigner]

Lordy, I could cry. So utterly sad and tragic.

I watched the entire photo sequence with Call Me Maybe, Don't Stop Believing and a third song. Saw nothing fast everything went slow as it should. I saw no duplicated photos. And my system grabs a screenshot every three seconds and I looked at the key frames and saw nothing unusual.

Now can someone tell me about these crime scene photos that folks are analyzing for coyotes v power saw?

Thank you very much for trying Deann.

Could you possibly upload the first sequence her or on youtube or some other website?

I really would like to re-watch the original sequence, because I´m 99.99 % sure that I saw this odd sequence.

 

[Shelby2]

I'm also not familiar enough with this site to know if a "former FBI profiler" (i.e., someone who is apparently no longer employed by the FBI) is considered a legit LE source of info, or if he's just someone the media calls up when they need an expert's opinion.

I did find this (the initial FBI profile):

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_21751844/fbi-denver-press-release-involving-missing-jessica-ridgeway

And also this quote:



BBM. Again--'former'. (Is this normal for crime reporting?) It's actually (seemingly) impossible to find a direct quote from a currently-employed member of LE on the case saying anything speculative about the killer at all.

(I'm used to discussing other stuff on the 'net where fact and citations are king, so if I seem nitpicky that's why. I don't know if you all consider a former-LEO's consultant-type opinion to be as good as an official statement from the police chief or what. )

Gonna keep looking, though, because this has my curiosity piqued.

Thanks. I get confused between all the news articles and talking heads. I completely missed the word "former"!
I wonder if the press conferences are transcribed anywhere?

 

[bessie]

I'm also not familiar enough with this site to know if a "former FBI profiler" (i.e., someone who is apparently no longer employed by the FBI) is considered a legit LE source of info, or if he's just someone the media calls up when they need an expert's opinion.

I did find this (the initial FBI profile):

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_21751844/fbi-denver-press-release-involving-missing-jessica-ridgeway

And also this quote:



BBM. Again--'former'. (Is this normal for crime reporting?) It's actually (seemingly) impossible to find a direct quote from a currently-employed member of LE on the case saying anything speculative about the killer at all.

(I'm used to discussing other stuff on the 'net where fact and citations are king, so if I seem nitpicky that's why. I don't know if you all consider a former-LEO's consultant-type opinion to be as good as an official statement from the police chief or what. )

Gonna keep looking, though, because this has my curiosity piqued.

A little background for you on Clint Van Zandt.

Clint Van Zandt, a former US Army Counter-Intelligence Agent and a Vietnam War veteran, retired from the FBI in 1995 after 25 years of service, ending his career as the FBI's Chief Hostage Negotiator and a Supervisor in the Bureau's Behavioral Science or better known "Silence of the Lambs Unit."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7256927/ns/msnbc_tv/t/clint-van-zandt/#.UH9bKFEw-So

He was the chief hostage negotiator and coordinator during the 1987 siege at the Oakdale, LA. Federal Correctional Facility; the 1987 siege at the Atlanta, Ga. Federal Prison; the 1991 prison riot at Talladega Ala. and many other similar situations. He also provided on-site coordination for negotiating the release of a U.S. citizen held by Columbian guerrillas and another kidnapping involving an American oil company executive held by terrorists in the Philippines.

Prior to joining the FBI Van Zandt was a Special Agent with the U.S. Army Intelligence and is a Vietnam War veteran.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/clintvanzandt.html

 

[thess]

A little background for you on Clint Van Zandt.

I'm not questioning anyone's qualifications to hold an opinion on profiling (I did say 'expert' in my original post), just whether they are actually privy to LE's non-public details of the case.

To me, a former-anything being called by a newspaper for a quote is not the same as "LE has stated that..."

If anything, I bet the media starts calling these folks for quotes because there is so little info coming out of the local LE.

But "JMO".

 

[gatorgirl2012]

A former FBI profiler is still considered a professional source and can be fairly used in an article.

 

[gatorgirl2012]

A former FBI profiler is still considered a professional source and can be fairly used in an article.

And I don't think that as an expert he would pull anything out of his arse that he wasn't very sure about.

 

[msthinksalot]

What if this guy is an illegal immigrant with no paper work to tie him to the United States? That would present quite a challenge for investigators trying to find him around here...Can anyone recall any similar cases? Ugh.

(my thoughts during the immigration portion of the Presidential Debate last night)

I'm way far behind, but this caught my eye and I wanted to respond.

According to that super-informative report posted the other day (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/201253NCJRS.pdf --- a HUGE thank you to whomever posted it, I forgot who did...), offenders of this nature are overwhelmingly male (98.5%), and tend to be white (~67%), with only about 20% black and the remainder either mixed, unknown or other.

Statistically speaking, and applying the K.I.S.S. approach, I think the person who did this is definitely male, white and under 45.

 

[thess]

A former FBI profiler is still considered a professional source and can be fairly used in an article.

I guess I'm still not making myself clear.

Will this former FBI profiler also have access to all the working case files and inside info?

That's the only distinction I'm making--is this person an official spokesperon for LE, with the necessary info to be an official spokesperson for LE. Not whether their opinion is valid or valuable.

I guess it must seem like I'm splitting hairs, so I'm going to let this go for now.

 

[bessie]

I'm not questioning anyone's qualifications to hold an opinion on profiling (I did say 'expert' in my original post), just whether they are actually privy to LE's non-public details of the case.

To me, a former-anything being called by a newspaper for a quote is not the same as "LE has stated that..."

If anything, I bet the media starts calling these folks for quotes because there is so little info coming out of the local LE.

But "JMO".

You make a good point. For all of his cred, CVZ is not an official source of facts in this case.

The media does frequently fill in the spaces with talking heads. But, when the talking heads are genuine experts, they do cast some light on the shadows for us.

 

[NC Analyzer]

I guess I'm still not making myself clear.

Will this former FBI profiler also have access to all the working case files and inside info?

That's the only distinction I'm making--is this person an official spokesperon for LE, with the necessary info to be an official spokesperson for LE. Not whether their opinion is valid or valuable.

I guess it must seem like I'm splitting hairs, so I'm going to let this go for now.

I can see EXACTLY where you're coming from and I, for one, appreciate the accuracy.