Trial break: The State vs Jodi Arias; trial resumes 4 February 2013

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As an artist myself I judge the art. Mediocre .imo.......

I agree. She has some natural talent and is above average. Her talent is undeveloped.

This is said to be hers and I have a hard time believing that. It's exceptional. It's dated 2007. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1359850872.183012.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I got my legal decoder ring out of a Cracker Jack box so take this for what its worth. It would seem according to jury instructions published by the Arizona bar that lesser offenses are included with a first degree murder charge (except felony). I'm including the link so one of our esteemed attorneys can take a peek when they have time.

http://www.azbar.org/media/292098/2011_cumulative_supplement.pdf

Relevant portion of instructions begins at pp. 112 with felony and premeditated definitions just above.
 
I've been reading some comments from people who knew Jodi previously (high school teacher, Darryl Brewer, and even the Freeman duo). For the most part, it seems Jodi had some issues before Travis, little things here and there like some emotional or angry outbursts and school issues, but no one was ever really scared of her, and there were apparently people who were able to have long term relationships with her.

While she didn't have an impressive resume, it seems she did work hard for a time and contributed her share towards financial obligations with Darryl. We have not heard of a long history of pathological lying (like a certain other acquitted murderess)

No one really has had bad things to say about her until she got involved with Travis. She got into financial trouble right before she hooked up with Travis, and around that time she seemed to experience a great deal of instability in her personal life -- moving around a bunch, changing religions, changing jobs, and then of course the obsessive/desperate behavior she displayed towards Travis, ultimately taking his life in such a brutal manner.

I'm included in those who have called her a psychopath, and she has definitely exhibited those behaviors in her actions and police interviews and demeanor. But all of that seems to dovetail around a particular time in her life when she was experiencing turmoil and chaos basically in every aspect of her life, and not before.

So, here's my latest pondering about Ms. Arias -- and I don't know everything that creates these psychological abnormalities in a person, so I would love to hear from the experts out there -- could it be that Jodi was fairly normal and able to function pretty well most of her life, perhaps with some latent issues that were well controlled until she started experiencing several stressors all at once?

In other words, it wasn't just that Jodi went psycho on Travis because she's disordered and this is the way her personality is arranged. Maybe it was a combination of all these stressors and chaos ...no place to call home, no job stability or financial security, the ending of an important relationship to her and frustration/shame of being rejected, separation from her new church identity and peers. Everything in her life was in upheaval at that time .. and I mean everything. Don't get me wrong, that is no one's doing but her own, and I'm not expressing any sympathy here -- just observing that everything that had any meaning to her she screwed up and lost. And she probably blamed Travis for all of it.

In that light, maybe she wasn't a psychopath or pervasively disordered as we have all assumed all along. Maybe it was the totality of everything, and because of these latent issues that she had been able to control before then, she just lost any ability to cope and took her rage and frustration out on Travis because she blamed him for all of her losses. When I think about it like this, it starts to make a little more sense why she would do something so self destructive that would almost certainly end badly for her -- she didn't really care because she thought her life was a big nothing anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if she had contemplated killing herself as well. While she went through the motions of disguising her actions and covering her tracks, she did not put a whole lot of intelligent thought into it IMO because she didn't really care that much what happened to her; that was not nearly as important as relieving herself of the source of her pain, as she perceived it.
und

I don't know that we have enough information on her history to rule out psychopathy, but I understand what you are saying.
 
That's one sick sorority.


Also I'm sure her lawyers have been preparing her to testify and doing mock cross-examinations for a while "just in case". As if that will prepare her for Juan. Oh please let her testify :please:

I'm with ya, Lotus, but I don't think it will happen. I do think, however, that we WS'ers, who have endured this I-don't-know-what-to-call-it here on these many, many threads, deserve to see her hot little buttocks up there trying to breathe during cross. Take that, Jodi!
icon10.gif
 
und

I don't know that we have enough information on her history to rule out psychopathy, but I understand what you are saying.

Agreed, but we definitely don't have enough information to rule it in either. I'm just wondering if there is some sort of sub-class of psychopath-like adults who become that way because of a confluence of stressors -- maybe it shakes loose some low-lying pathology lol
 
How could they prove TA did not know?

I believe that is the wrong question. I believe (again, maybe a verified attorney will jump in here and clarify! HINT HINT!) that they have to verify that TA did in fact know he was being recorded for it to be legal and admissible.

Proving he didn't know might come later if charges would be brought against her for illegal recording. But, I think even then the prevailing question would be proving he did consent to the recording.

JMHO, not an attorney and don't play one on the internet either!
 
I got my legal decoder ring out of a Cracker Jack box so take this for what its worth. It would seem according to jury instructions published by the Arizona bar that lesser offenses are included with a first degree murder charge (except felony). I'm including the link so one of our esteemed attorneys can take a peek when they have time.

http://www.azbar.org/media/292098/2011_cumulative_supplement.pdf

Relevant portion of instructions begins at pp. 112 with felony and premeditated definitions just above.

Reading this now. Thanks for finding it. I was too lazy to look it up, but motivated to find an answer since you found this.
 
I don't think it is duct tape we are seeing. Has anyone seen a digital copy of the pic in question? I believe we having been looking at a screen shot of a pic which is not as high quality as we've seen in some pics. Rather than duct tape it looks like a small slightly blue looking tube of something? I dunno

The pics of Travis in the shower where it appears his arm is irritated could be a case of farmers tan. Arizona in June? You get sun burned walking to your car in the AM.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/04/jodi-arias-crime-scene-photos_n_2412031.html#slide=1985280

I am no expert in photo quality, i only know it looks like grey/silver duct tape to me that is wrapped around the arm. I see blurry blue thing in foreground that may be giant KY bottle, but behind that, tightly wrapped around the arm it looks to me like duct tape, right underneath the red timestamp of the numeral four. I dunno either DClip. ??? JMO
 
JA tried to become what she thought Travis wanted in a spouse.

Mormon. The Freeman brother had said there is quite a process to go through to get to the point where one is baptised. JA jumped through all the Mormon hoops and said what people needed to hear so that she could get baptised. Obviously her lies and manipulation worked on the missionaries that helped her get to the point of baptism.

She definitely is a great deceiver. That is why she is so dangerous. No one sees it coming.

MOO
 
O/T Dirty Little Secrets is on ID right now, and I TOTALLY believe Wilmont stole that phrase!!!!
 
As sick as I am that defense is going to be presenting a warped self-defense strategy, I am comforted remembering the jurors' questions. I am comforted knowing there's a tri-color haired woman juror taking excessive notes as though she cares to get at the truth.

The logic that this is not a self-defense crime is definitely supported by the fact that it's hard to be the abused one when you've moved away and then come back on a surprise visit to your abuser's home. Add some kind of premeditated plan that you actually borrowed secret gas cans in advance. Then the preposterous story that you dropped his camera and he was going to kill you. I don't care what Snow White domestic violence spin you put on it, I hope jurors hold on to the truth of what makes common sense.
 
I got my legal decoder ring out of a Cracker Jack box so take this for what its worth. It would seem according to jury instructions published by the Arizona bar that lesser offenses are included with a first degree murder charge (except felony). I'm including the link so one of our esteemed attorneys can take a peek when they have time.

http://www.azbar.org/media/292098/2011_cumulative_supplement.pdf

Relevant portion of instructions begins at pp. 112 with felony and premeditated definitions just above.

I skipped right to the instructions on justifiable use of deadly force. IMO There ain't no way she is going to pull this off. Looking at murder and lesser included offenses now, and I'll comment more fully in a bit. Thanks again for providing this.
 
Agreed, but we definitely don't have enough information to rule it in either. I'm just wondering if there is some sort of sub-class of psychopath-like adults who become that way because of a confluence of stressors -- maybe it shakes loose some low-lying pathology lol

Borderline personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder, maybe some sort of late-onset schizotypal thing going on.

It's being discovered more and more that some people already have latent predispositions to certain disorders. Schizophrenics are a great example of this. They can go on for years (usually until late teens, early 20s) being completely normal and either a stressor or other factor comes in and all of a sudden they're displaying classic symptoms in a full-blown case. Marijuana use is something that's been correlated to to these incidents, as well. However, sometimes you have the chicken and the egg thing... Are they using it because they're trying to self-medicate, or are they dysfunctional because of it?

I don't think it's anywhere near out of the realm of possibility for her to have had a completely normal life/lifestyle and then stressors caused a condition to become more apparent.

:twocents:
 
I'm not a mental health professional either despite what my facebook says. ;) Disordered people, just like regular folks, have stressors and triggers too in my experience. My ex was diagnosed as comborbid APD/NPD (and I believe he would have been dx'd with conduct disorder but he was in counseling before that was even a dx). Prior to my knowing him he'd had some minor scrapes with the law but had been lucky and avoided incarceration. He had a further history of arson as a young adult I only knew about after he set our house on fire when we'd been together many years.

Prior to his diagnosis though he was married twice, once for 7 years and once for 10 years. He had three children and maintained relatively continuous employment. He had several friends on a very superficial level and some semblance of a relationship with his family. While he was abusive during our entire relationship it wasn't until the birth of our second child and financial stressors came about that his 'condition' began worsening. Fast forward a few years later, after the death of my parents, and he was arrested, plead guilty to, and convicted of drugging and raping his 14 year old niece. He was 43 years old at the time. For many years though he appeared 'normal' to those who did not know him intimately. Myself, and many, many others excused and minimized his behavior for much of it. (He was just stressed; he just had a temper; I'd just been thoughtless, etc.)

I believe disordereds are fully capable of maintaining facades...the effectiveness and length of such are determined in part by those surrounding them as much as everyday stressors. JMO
 
I've been reading some comments from people who knew Jodi previously (high school teacher, Darryl Brewer, and even the Freeman duo). For the most part, it seems Jodi had some issues before Travis, little things here and there like some emotional or angry outbursts and school issues, but no one was ever really scared of her, and there were apparently people who were able to have long term relationships with her.

While she didn't have an impressive resume, it seems she did work hard for a time and contributed her share towards financial obligations with Darryl. We have not heard of a long history of pathological lying (like a certain other acquitted murderess)

No one really has had bad things to say about her until she got involved with Travis. She got into financial trouble right before she hooked up with Travis, and around that time she seemed to experience a great deal of instability in her personal life -- moving around a bunch, changing religions, changing jobs, and then of course the obsessive/desperate behavior she displayed towards Travis, ultimately taking his life in such a brutal manner.

I'm included in those who have called her a psychopath, and she has definitely exhibited those behaviors in her actions and police interviews and demeanor. But all of that seems to dovetail around a particular time in her life when she was experiencing turmoil and chaos basically in every aspect of her life, and not before.

So, here's my latest pondering about Ms. Arias -- and I don't know everything that creates these psychological abnormalities in a person, so I would love to hear from the experts out there -- could it be that Jodi was fairly normal and able to function pretty well most of her life, perhaps with some latent issues that were well controlled until she started experiencing several stressors all at once?

In other words, it wasn't just that Jodi went psycho on Travis because she's disordered and this is the way her personality is arranged. Maybe it was a combination of all these stressors and chaos ...no place to call home, no job stability or financial security, the ending of an important relationship to her and frustration/shame of being rejected, separation from her new church identity and peers. Everything in her life was in upheaval at that time .. and I mean everything. Don't get me wrong, that is no one's doing but her own, and I'm not expressing any sympathy here -- just observing that everything that had any meaning to her she screwed up and lost. And she probably blamed Travis for all of it.

In that light, maybe she wasn't a psychopath or pervasively disordered as we have all assumed all along. Maybe it was the totality of everything, and because of these latent issues that she had been able to control before then, she just lost any ability to cope and took her rage and frustration out on Travis because she blamed him for all of her losses. When I think about it like this, it starts to make a little more sense why she would do something so self destructive that would almost certainly end badly for her -- she didn't really care because she thought her life was a big nothing anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if she had contemplated killing herself as well. While she went through the motions of disguising her actions and covering her tracks, she did not put a whole lot of intelligent thought into it IMO because she didn't really care that much what happened to her; that was not nearly as important as relieving herself of the source of her pain, as she perceived it.

You are searching for the the concept called latent psychopathology. Although Jodi did not obviously appear to be a psychopath in her early years, she had behavioral markers, behavioral vulnerabilities (maybe genetic too?), and likely few protective factors for developing into a psychopath. I’ll bet some obvious early signs were Conduct Disorder, impulsivity, and heightened responses to unpleasant stimuli. She dropped out of high school for some reason, but no one will discuss why she dropped out. The answer to why she dropped out of high school will also tell us about her previous behavioral problems.

When Jodi began to experience extreme stress, her underlying psychopathic personality could no longer be hidden.

You might like this article:
http://www.nih.gov/news/health/mar2010/nida-15.htm

Numerous suicide acts/self injury frequently occur with psychopaths/antisocials. Maybe Jodi appeared to try to kill herself in high school and this is why she had to drop out (long admission to a psych unit).
http://riskreduction.soceco.uci.edu...ssociations_in_large_male_offender_sample.pdf
 
O/T Dirty Little Secrets is on ID right now, and I TOTALLY believe Wilmont stole that phrase!!!!

That phrase has been around for a long time - there was a rather popular song by that title too. As a matter of fact, a case close to my heart was the murder of Kari Baker by her preacher hubby matt baker and he emailed the lyrics to his mistress.
In addition, because that was a significant find in the case - 48 hours entitled their show on the case after the song.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18559_162-7007478.html

(BTW - the case was show in its entirety on InSession and they used that phrase I bet 20 + times a day!) FWIW.
 
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