CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #1

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If she was partying in someone else's room it seems odd she would be dressed in basketball shorts.

Not if you'd been partying, getting busy (in a romantic way), etc. I think she was on that floor because she was hanging out with someone up there and things went south.
 
In the tumblr account, when she is talking about getting ready for her trip to Ottawa she does mention that she used up all her sleeping pills.
 
In the tumblr account, when she is talking about getting ready for her trip to Ottawa she does mention that she used up all her sleeping pills.

Sleep deprivation is serious !
Could explain a lot of her behavior on video.
 
If the tumblr is hers...

Reading the posts makes one all the more sad.

Also FWIW, she throws around other diagnoses (OCD, ADD) and she seems very well-read, so I think it may be possible that she's also self-diagnosing her bipolar disorder and depression. Only her family really knows this.

On the one hand, she talks about being bipolar (hypomania, sleeping more than a day, and then not sleeping for more than a day) and needing/wanting sleeping pills in order to control insomnia.

All three of these (bipolar disorder, insomnia, and sleeping pills/Ambien sleep walking episode) could explain why she's on the floor that's not hers and her strange behavior (IF there is no one outside of the elevator).

Of course she could also be behaving this way under the influence of her illness/insomnia/sleeping pills AND someone's outside of the elevator.

All of those states of being could put someone at increased risk of being victimized, sadly.

But the really sad part is the fact that she writes several posts about how she had frustrations with her parents who were extremely worried about her trip to Ottawa. She writes of them worrying constantly, not letting her take the bus due to the fact that a man beheaded another person on a bus in Canada several years ago, etc.

She states that she planned the trips in minute detail and just wanted her parents to trust her that she was being safe.

That said, I won't be contributing any more. This is all too sad and I don't think I can really be of any help - I just hope that LE can find the perp/reason for her death and that her family can find some comfort to get them through this terrible time.

BBM,, that is very concerning if true. :(
 
Again the facts are the coronor state no evidence of trauma to the body.
This along with the history of mental instability indicate to me tht she was the one who got herself at least near the tank. (I'm sticking with the theorie they will find chemical as in drug form or lithium imbalence present in the conclusion of her autopsy.)
It's this vunerable state that allowed her to either become victimized or to cause harm to herself.
Putting a dead weight even as light as hers into that tank would involve subjecting some type of trauma to the body scrapes, scratches, bruising,robe burn etc
 
Not trying to be difficult here, but IIRC, social networking info was removed by a Mod yesterday because it is NOT verified as being Elisa's account.

Another member found the account does not belong to Elisa:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013

Sillybilly, not sure if you selectively read the convo or if my posts were removed by the mod, but TLDR, the post you linked to does not find that the account isn't Elisa's. In fact, the evidence (the social media link that AZNDude mentions in the post you linked) is that the account does belong to her. I won't type out everything I wrote yesterday, and not to sound confrontational, but not sure how much more clear it can be to prove that the Tumblr is hers. All signs (social media links, content) point to it if you read whats written (the dates and the locations all matching) in addition to the social media accounts.
 
>Elisa Lam was found dead in a water tank at the Cecil Hotel in L.A.

>Lam Elisa is the name of a Tuberculosis test
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20352098

>A Tuberculosis outbreak is happening right now in Skid Row L.A.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2013/02/22/tuberculosis-outbreak-hits-la-homeless/
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/downtown-la-tuberculosis-outbreak-brings-federal-forces.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/22/tuberculosis-outbreak-los-angeles_n_2743373.html

Her death was some sort of sacrifice IMO. Welcome to Illuminatiwood.
 
Another thing that's interesting is that she died under the sign of Aquarius which is from January 20th to February 18th. Aquarius is the Water Bearer/Carrier. And of course she was in a cistern full of water... :x
 
I can say for sure, it doesn't look like she was on drugs. Being Chinese, I can only say she acted like a typical Chinese in such situation.
1) she goes into elevator expecting it to work.
2) elevator doesn't work, she gets a bit scare. (like "zhong guai lor"--translate wtf is there a freaking ghost, it's a chinese thing)
3) goes out checking if someone is there.
4) waves the hand near the elevator door to check if the sensor is jacked up.
5) finally gives up.

I can't figure out why she was counting

ahaha I can't help but agree totally. COuld be the mix of movies we grew up on but I have to say asians (chinese, koreans, japanese, filipinos etc) react a little differently from americans or europeans etc in some situations. Could be the culture.

But hey, if Elisa was born and stayed in Canada all her life, the chinese culture thing would hardly be practical since the only thing chinese about her wouldve been her race yes?
 
If the tumblr is hers...

Reading the posts makes one all the more sad.

Also FWIW, she throws around other diagnoses (OCD, ADD) and she seems very well-read, so I think it may be possible that she's also self-diagnosing her bipolar disorder and depression. Only her family really knows this.

On the one hand, she talks about being bipolar (hypomania, sleeping more than a day, and then not sleeping for more than a day) and needing/wanting sleeping pills in order to control insomnia.

All three of these (bipolar disorder, insomnia, and sleeping pills/Ambien sleep walking episode) could explain why she's on the floor that's not hers and her strange behavior (IF there is no one outside of the elevator).

Of course she could also be behaving this way under the influence of her illness/insomnia/sleeping pills AND someone's outside of the elevator.

All of those states of being could put someone at increased risk of being victimized, sadly.

But the really sad part is the fact that she writes several posts about how she had frustrations with her parents who were extremely worried about her trip to Ottawa. She writes of them worrying constantly, not letting her take the bus due to the fact that a man beheaded another person on a bus in Canada several years ago, etc.

She states that she planned the trips in minute detail and just wanted her parents to trust her that she was being safe.

That said, I won't be contributing any more. This is all too sad and I don't think I can really be of any help - I just hope that LE can find the perp/reason for her death and that her family can find some comfort to get them through this terrible time.
Stratford 258, thank you for everything you contributed. It helped us understand her feelings. I can understand her parents being worried. too.
Your input is greatly appreciated.
 
I showed the DH the video and gave him a brief run down of the case. He wonders if she might have been playing hide n seek with some residents/ guests . Maybe the others were under the influence and she was just playing along for the fun of it and someone told her a great place to hide was in the tank, maybe not mentioning it was full of water. FWIW !

Then LE would have seen obvious indications of drowning, meaning that she was alive when she entered the tank. Once your dead your lungs do not fill up with water. So I'm guessing LE know she was already deceased when her body entered that tank.

Also I don't buy for a minute that anything on that video is her playing a game of hide and seek. I don't even know if that video is directly related to her death, but regardless it sure doesn't look like someone playing a game of hide and seek to me.
 
:seeya: Heads up. Please hold up on posting social media links for now while the mods review them. We'll post back here later tonight with a decision. If anyone has information that can speed up the process, please send it to me in a pm.

I won't remove existing posts right now, but until the mod team gives the green light, any future posts will be removed.

Thank you.

ETA: We're over a 1000 posts here. I'll get a new one opened and post the link in a few minutes.
 
Do we know what kind of Chinese Elisa was? Could her hand gestures have been some traditional dance movements?

It looks to me more like she is trying to explain what she is saying with hand gestures. At one point, it looks like she puts her palms flat and moves them away from each other describing something low and long or flat. Then she does this kind of motion with her hands closer to her face that look like the kind of hand gestures someone would make when describing ocean waves.
 
Suggested this before but many posts and think it is worth trying again - from 2:12 or so on she appears not to be counting.... but to recounting something that has just happened to her - she seems to be miming having her hands tied and being made to sit down. I think she possibly has already been attacked at this point - has made some kind of temporary escape - is traumatized - doesn't know what to do or where to go. (Could be a sick cat and mouse game if they have the exits on her floor controlled and the elevator controlled - a hunt). Of course could be drugged of course could be mentally ill but the idea of making psychiatric diagnoses on this slender evidence - some posts have said they know what is wrong with her "100%" I disagree that is possible.

Not sure why it is cruel to ask her family to ID her body. When a case is very very peculiar then lots of things become possible - they should satisfy themselves that it is her. And not through DNA or dental records. Obviously if she can't be identified visually at this point then it can't be done but it likely can or how would they have identified her already? What worries me is that there was so much speculation about accidental death before they got her body out of the water tank What worries me is there was so much speculation about mental health on the basis of some possibly doctored video.

I wonder why LE assured everyone at first that the water was safe to drink - soon overturned by the health department.

Comments about her staying at this seedy hotel: newcasts show there are foreign tourists on package tours the site even suggests they do conventions! Signs of Beverley Hills and Hollywood on the site as well. Easy to be misled by ads.

However I would very very much like to know where she was staying in San Diego, how she got to LA. If she went to a TV studio in S.D. and is pictured on the G. Stromb. show in Toronto then I would guess she had similar plans in LA.

I think she presses multiple keys on the elevator but many lights are burnt out - and tries to speak into the intercom - could be wrong.

BBM. I assume you are talking about me since I am the only poster who stated I am 100% sure about anything (I said I was 100% sure she was suffering from psychosis in the video).

It's okay to quote me. BTW, I am not making a psychiatric diagnosis. It's a lay opinion based on my experience.

It would seem odd that only one person would notice a woman singing at the top of her lungs in the street. A quick survey of local residence, shop / office workers etc would determine whether it was in fact Elisa. Sightings of missing persons seem to be as erroneous as they are common.

But, I do agree with you - it was the strangeness of the elevator situation that brought this so much attention (before the body was found). Perhaps this was the reason.

Yes but who says only one person noticed a woman signing at the top of her lungs? I live about 35 minutes by freeway from the area of the Cecil hotel. I go to court down the street from there, regularly. Do you know how many people run around that area screaming, fighting, yelling, acting bizarrely? I do. Tons.

Like I said before, most people would ignore it, go about their business, etc. Many would be afraid to look. You have mostly busy business people and attorneys, hard working Hispanics, a few hipsters and an absolute ton of homeless, most on drugs or mentally ill. This is not the suburb. It's five minutes from skid row.

That kind of thing happens daily, several times a day.

fwiw, I showed the video to my 8 year old and asked him "What do you think is going on with this girl in the elevator?"

He said, "I think she has a problem with her brain." I thought it was interesting that he didn't say that she looked scared or was playing a game or was hiding from someone. :waitasec:

Out of the mouths of babes.

Very interesting comments regarding the ladders (both inside and out) for the water tanks...

In reference to the cases of bodies found in water tanks in other states/countries (India and NY, I believe?)....

I wonder if it was ever determined how the bodies found in the water tanks were placed in the tanks by those perp(s)...

It does seem like a daunting task....But I think this scenario makes more sense than Elisa climbing into a water tank by her own volition...

I wonder how Elisa would even KNOW there were water tanks on the roof... I have read posters here that were not aware of water tanks on the roofs of hotels... And I know I had no idea of such...

JMO

But she didn't have to know there was a water tank on the roof in order to decide to go in one once she got up there (if that's what happened).


Interesting. She seems to be very drawn to roof tops.

From the Tumblr posts, she seemed to have be struggling with depression. I saw that in a couple of posts, and its here in the About her section too:
http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/autre

How can you guys read that? When I look, the print is light gray on a white background!!!

No way this was suicide.

You don't go on vacation to die. Plus, all her pictures, she is smiling. She has the blues maybe.

Someone killed her and hid her body in the tank to avoid capture. Water is the perfect place because it washes away evidence.

Another even more sobering statistic? You are three times more likely to commit suicide while abroad than be killed by an act of terrorism.http://www.searchamelia.com/forbes-doesnt-mention-terrorism-as-a-threat
People kill themselves on vacation sometimes. In fact, many suicidal people leave specifically to go to a certain spot to die.

I can;t say that's what happened here at all but I rule nothing out yet. I also find it interesting that a young, culturally Chinese girl would travel internationally with no specific itinerary, alone, to Los Angeles. There may be more to this story. I can't imagine her family being okay with that at all.

its also entirely possible that she had someone else post on her behalf actually, with the amount of posts she makes on tumblr everyday it seems rather strange, you don't take a vacation down the coastline to post stuff unrelated to your vacation on tumblr

Unless you are suffering a nervous breakdown or psychotic split or something.

:( "An autopsy on Elisa Lam’s body has come back inconclusive, and authorities say it could be two more months before additional tests shed light on how she died.
A Los Angeles coroner revealed Thursday that toxicology tests are being conducted but results could take six to eight weeks."

So no clear signs of strangulation, or being stabbed or shot, right? Or would weeks in the water make it too hard to tell?

It’s worth noting that the latest reblog, 3 days ago, was taken from a blog that seems to belong to a friend of Elisa. So it’s even more likely this is Elisa’s Tumblr.

I’m still puzzled by the posting schedule of the queue, however. If you track down her other blog through her about me stuff (a more fashion-focused one), that blog has auto-populated with a more expected queue schedule. Her friend blogged this particular post in December, so it’s possible Elisa dropped it into her queue and put a random indeterminate future date on it because she wanted to add some thoughts or comments or even just save a book rec (I have done this on occasion, rather than saving to drafts.) Or maybe 3 days ago was a date that held special significance for her.

Reading her posts is haunting. I really feel like I could have been buddies with her. :(

How can you read her posts? I don;t know how to navigate tumblr. Nothing I press does anything!

Wow I am way behind on this thread! Going to go back and try to catch up.....but I'm begging to know who on earth is posting these crazy videos and how are they related to Elisa? Creepy creepy creepy!

Me too!! So confusing!

It was a video a guy made of himself. He was staying at the Cecil Hotel. He had a strange accent, looked to be in his late 20's, early 30's. He had long black hair tied in a ponytail and wore what looked like a black heavy metal band-type t-shirt. He has very pale skin and is otherwise sort of handsome, but is very, very creepy acting.

At the beginning of the video he's lounging on a couch or bed. You can see he has two parallel large slash marks on his upper right bicep. The cuts are held together with rows of white butterfly bandages, like you would get when treated in an ER or clinic.

He's talking about how its about time for him to leave, he gets up and goes to the window telling viewers he's showing them what downtown LA looks like. He points the camera out the window towards a downtown scene. He looks like he's in a room that's pretty high up, maybe several stories high.

As he's talking, he makes a really creepy yell/scream sound, then laughs and says maybe he should quit making that sound, it scares people.


The sound he made in the video is nearly identical to the sound that is made in the Vimeo video "the beast awoke in LA".

The You Tube video showed it was posted a year ago.

Seriously creepy.

Is the video gone?

I don't think she was having a psychotic break, otherwise we would have heard more details about her mental history while she was missing. She called her family every day while in California, so that shows she was maintaining a fairly consistent line of communication. There was nothing in the news about her being prone to disappearing for days at a time, which is what some depressed people will do.

Does anybody know what time the elevator footage was taken? Was it late in the evening, early in the morning? I'm just wondering if perhaps her behaviour may have been a form of sleepwalking hence the strange gestures. I've seen some videos on youtube of people sleepwalking, and they sometimes act in an odd manner.

No explanation as to why she'd be up on the 14th floor if her room was on the 4th floor. Interesting, for the chinese, the number 4 is considered bad luck, like how westerners consider 13 bad luck. It's because it sounds like 'death' when pronounced. She was staying on the 4th floor, and the video was of the 13th story of the building.

No mention of the state of her room, or if the clothing she was seen wearing in the elevator footage was found in her room or if she was wearing it.

There was mention of depression in the news, IIRC and then bi polar disorder on her tumblr, it appears. But schizophrenia has its onset at about the age Elisa was when she died. There is a lot of information about it but apparently the first psychotic break of a schizophrenic person is the most dangerous.
A first psychotic episode (FPE) typically occurs in a person's teens or early 20s and may develop into bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. The incidence rate of FPE is estimated to be 15-20 cases per 100,000, according to the Canadian Mental Health Association. http://www.schizophrenia.com/family/early.diag.htm
Some typical and early warning signs of psychosis include

  • Worrisome drop in grades or job performance;
  • New trouble thinking clearly or concentrating;
  • Suspiciousness/uneasiness with others;
  • Decline in self-care or personal hygiene;
  • Spending a lot more time alone than usual;
  • Increased sensitivity to sights or sounds;
  • Mistaking noises for voices;
  • Unusual or overly intense new ideas; and
  • Strange new feelings or having no feelings at all.http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=First_Episode
Besides deciding to travel alone out of the country, I find it interesting that Elisa was not registered for the next semester of school. IMO, something was going on with her long before she got here.


If Elisa killed herself or fell in the tank then her COD would have been drowning, right? She'd have had to have been alive to get into the tank. Then she would have to drown.

The only other COD I can think of from suicide or falling in the tank would be possibly exposure if it was cold that night? Fell in and couldn't get out because there are no ladders inside, and died of exposure?

I'm just thinking if she drowned, there should have been a COD today. So I'm trying to think if it wasn't homicide what other COD should they have.

Does anyone know how a ME would tell if someone died of exposure? I can look it up but I had noticed a few nurses posting in the thread earlier.

Thanks for any info!

Great questions.

As I thought doors are locked - she is trapped in the video. Elevators controlled no egress by doors.

Strange coverage by media unbearably so. Clear attempt to make her look crazy. Clear attempt to dehumanize her cf. the incessant comments interviews and videos now about the supposedly repulsive drinking water. Almost certain LE is going to wash their hands of the case. 6-8 weeks now to get things to die down. Then will probably come back with more inconclusives. No I don't know why she is being treated in this inhumane fashion. Elements of xenophobia, racism misogynism primitive understandings of mental health - some other purpose or some reason unknown to avoid the obvious conclusion of homicide - no idea what is going on.
Why nothing yet on her time in San Diego? I think (possibly) something began there. Why endless commentary on the drinking water in media - in the excellent video Hazel linked to (for which thanks!) it shows how nice the bookstore she visited nearby is - but the commentators smirk and giggle in an unseemly way about the drinking water. Why not get on a bus and figure out what happened in San Diego - and of course her first days in LA.

I see nothing to suggest xenophobia, racism, misogynism or primitive understandings of mental healthcare present in the manner that LE is investigating or the reporting by the media.

I also find this a tad bit insulting. I have yet to see one mental health professional say it looks like Elisa was free from some sort of mental issue when in that elevator. And I think people who have witnessed a few psychotic episodes are justified in coming to the conclusion that that is what is happening to Elisa Lam, without being deemed xenophobic, racist, misogynistic or having a "primitive" understanding of mental health.
 
Some other thoughts...

She was last seen in the overnight hours (approximately 2am, on elevator survelliance) between Thursday 1/31 and Friday 2/1....correct? As far as we know so far?

She was discovered on Tuesday 2/19, and believed to be in the water tank for 2 weeks......that would mean she was put in the water tank on Tuesday 2/5......or about 5 days after she went missing.

She was reportedly found completely naked. And given that no immediate signs of death were apparent on the autopsy report it would lead me to believe two things, there was no signs of trauma on the body (at least not lethal trauma), and she in all likelyhood was dead before she was placed in there. If she was alive when placed in there her lungs would have filled with water in a specific way, and cause not manner of death would be more identifiable.

So if we assume from that, she was stripped of clothing, and already deceased....she clearly didn't put herself in that water tank.

I also given the info we know, unless LE is mistaken about the length of time she was in the water, find it hard to believe that she was ever on the roof when she was alive. If someone had lured her up there the day she disappeared, then did they kill her and bring her back to their room deceased only to return her body to the roof later? Seems unlikely. Or did they just leave her body in another location on the roof, only to decide to move it to the water tank five days after the initial attack. Also seems unlikely to me, as someone else surely could have ventured up there in those 5 days and seen the body.

It seems more likely if she was on the roof the night she disappeared, either on her own, or because someone lured her, she at least left the roof that night alive. But again I'm not really sure I believe a living elisa ever set foot on that roof.

I'm theororizing that, a long time resident, or frequent resident of the Cecil hotel, perhaps one with a history of sexual crimes, came upon a disorientated girl, lured or forced her into his room, and perhaps kept her alive, and quiet (drugs or restraints), while he did unspeakable sexual things to her for 5 days. Then when you decided he was finished with her, intentionally overdosed her. Removed her clothes, cleaned her, and in the darkness f night, and with a great deal of familiarity of the hotel, decided to hide her body on the water tank.

The fact that she was completely nude, makes me think, that this person had committed crimes like this against women before, and knew how to avoid leaving DNA on the body.

Lastly I think the reason the autopsy reports are not yet known, is due to the fact because (again in theory) she had no signs of trauma, and was obviously deceased when entering the water....LE is guessing that she actually died of some kind of overdose, and they are hoping the exact medication or chemical that caused her death, with give them a better indication of who may have given it to her.

* if she did die of an overdose of medication, I think it was because of something specific someone else gave her, and I think that drug is completely separate from the possibility of ambien being the reason for her sleep walking in the halls.

Hi,

I want to say that I personally think that if murder occured, it would be very similar to what u said about long time resident. That's my personal pov. Speculation is allowed here right? Been thinking along this line all the time except that didn't want to post every single assumption that ran thru my mind. that would make this my blog site instead:great:

The other thing I have to highlight again is that a decomposed body shouldn't be able to stay in a water tank for so long without affecting water quality. The change in water quality wouldve been obvious in a few days. In Singapore, a similar case of body in tank changed the water to putrid, yellowish and foamy in under 24 hours.

In another case in Kota Kinabalu Malaysia, another body was found in the tank.Residents complained that the water had changed in color and the odour was unbearable. I went on for 4-5 days. When the tank was searched what was found in there were indeed slushy remains.

Surely if EL was in the tank for more than a week, the water wouldve been almost as bad as sewage then? Just a guess but it would seem that she couldve been in the tank for a vey short while only.
 
Not if you'd been partying, getting busy (in a romantic way), etc. I think she was on that floor because she was hanging out with someone up there and things went south.

Well that's just it if she were hanging out with someone in a romantics way and had plans to...I would think she would have been wearing something more cute and feminine.....

Unless those close aren't hers
 
Learning more and more through her tumbler account about her state of mind and admissions of insomnia....

I am even more convinced that her reason for being out of her room at that time without her glasses, and her strange almost child like behavior is the direct result of ambien type sleeping medication. To me at least this seems very obvious, and at least in my head I have very little doubt on this.

In theory LE would be aware if she had any rx meds in her room, whether they are releasing that info is a different story.

I wonder if they are hoping the tox reports would show these meds in her system or would show something in her system other then her own rx meds?
 
http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/autre

"I have typical twenty-something issues (specifically bipolar depression ) and every now and then I’ll talk about it sarcastically. "

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/34350935794/adventures-in-hypomania-part-ii

"I have been hypomanic since Tuesday"

A hypomanic episode is characterized by a distinct period of persistently elevated, expansive, or irritable mood, lasting throughout at least 4 days and present for most of the day nearly every day. This hypomanic mood is clearly different from the person's usual mood.
During the period of mood disturbance, 3 or more of the following symptoms have persisted (4 if the mood is only irritable) and have been present to a significant degree:

  • Inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
  • Decreased need for sleep (e.g., feels rested after only 3 hours of sleep)
  • More talkative than usual or pressure to keep talking
  • Flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing
  • Distractibility (e.g., attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli)
  • Increase in goal-directed activity (either socially, at work or school, or sexually) or psychomotor agitation
  • Excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences (e.g., the person engages in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, or foolish business investments) http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx21.htm

Some people with bipolar disorder become psychotic, hearing things that aren't there. They may hold onto false beliefs, and cannot be swayed from them. In some instances, they see themselves as having superhuman skills and powers -- even consider themselves to be god-like.http://www.webmd.com/bipolar-disorder/guide/hypomania-mania-symptoms

For those who suspect her actions in the elevator (hand gestures, behavior etc.) are due to Chinese culture I recommend you see this link which compiles and translates Chinese reactions to the video http://www.chinasmack.com/2013/videos/elisa-lam-strange-behavior-in-elevator-netizen-reactions.html

Most of them at the link seem to think something supernatural is going on.
 
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