CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #2

[x_files]

I have two possible working theories on the elevator video.
I wonder if just prior to the film , Elisa was assaulted, either sexually or otherwise.
That coupled with all shes' said about her fragile mental state could easily send one
'over the edge' so to speak. She seems initially to be holding it together until she ' hears' them coming down the hall or whatever it is that she hears. Could be she got away or they
let her go and then thought better of it, to leave no witness. So I wonder could she be
saying ' i wont tell, i promise' type of pleading with. Already shes' been victimized and so she knows they are trouble . Once the assault has happened, they could only be coming back for one thing and she knows it. Thoughts ?

That's exactly what I thought too.
I would want to know what she was doing prior to the elevator. Drinking at the bar with a new friend? or hanging out with new friends in their room? It's possible she was attacked and a struggle did happen in her room on the fourth floor (if she was indeed on the fourth floor).
She acts drugged and either waking up from it or slowly passing completely out.
Her behavior is very odd.
I think this is after she was assaulted. Maybe she was taken back to her room her property rifled through and after she died fell on the floor or while soeone was trying to wrap her in a blanket to remove her.

 

[interferon]

Very interesting stuff guys...

I was also wondering if the lid on the tank had been sealed when the maintenance man went to have a look.

Another thing I'm confused by....was she staying in Stay, the "hipper" hostel aimed at a younger crowd, which I believe is right next to Cecil (and Elise mentions in her tumblr about the big hotel next door built in the 1920s I think? I think she is referring to the Cecil...Can't post link as cause of the font colour I can barely read her blog...can't change colour either as I'm sing an iPad).

So is Stay a part of Cecil, are they connected yet separate like townhouses of do they bleed in to eachother??? Ie once inside one, you're inside both?? It's harder to find ino on stay because the name is so generic!!

Hi! New to the forums but I just can't stop following this case. Just popping in to say the Stay and Cecil are indeed the same, and I believe the same management. A Google Street View clearly shows them being housed in the same building. I just think it's a "rebranding" of some of the Cecil hotel rooms. The Deco style building she might have been referring to could have been the Pacific Electric Lofts building on the corner. It's huge and has some beautiful deco-style detailing.

 

[cluciano63]

I fear this case will have a very unsatisfactory conclusion of cause and manner of death as "undetermined", or COD as drowning, manner as undetermined.

 

[Canadianmom2three]

If she did press the "door hold" button, I wonder if pressing the "door close" button would cancel it. Maybe not.

Not sure if this was mentioned yet...but my husband who works in maintenance in a big building says if the door hold button is pressed, it will be cancelled and the door will shut by pressing the door shut button. Not sure if ALL elevators are the same but he seems to think so.

 

[gitana1]

I've spent a bit of time speaking to this, and putting forward my experiences and that of my colleagues in regards to this. I am curious as to why you believe her to be followed and scared. Please review my previous posts for background reference if you'd like. And of course, I open this debate to anyone.

I appreciate your logical posts. Thank you for your input.

I read two reviews for the hotel that mentioned the "communal bathrooms and showers are located near the elevators".

Man, in that area of town, that just seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Easy to grab or assault someone in a vulnerable state (showering) and then to flee. How many sex offenders live there or nearby? I will look on the Megan's law site soon to see.

I don't remember seeing this posted earlier:

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=9002570

This is an odd statement, suggesting the possibility she did suffer from a major psychiatric disorder. "Other organs" likely implies the liver and kidneys, which filter drugs and toxins, so this would be a routine toxicology test. It is the tests on Elisa's brain that would be unusual.

Besides rumors or a seizure disorder, as ànother poster mentioned, what can an autopsy of the brain discern?

Slipping into the hotel water tank? Did you not see that thing? It's a hell of a feat to even get atop those things let alone take off the lid and get in.

I think if it would be hard to get up there and get in, it would be harder to get up there dragging a body, dead or otherwise.

Elisa got up there. Whether by someone else's Power or her own. So we know it is possible.

Posters are still referring to the sighting of Elisa on the street corner, and I’m interested in the rationale as to why anyone is considering that a credible sighting. The ”sighting” was posted on the net Friday, Feb 15. The poster said it was the previous Saturday, which would be Feb 9.

Where do you think she was from Jan 31 to Feb 9, and how do you think she ended up back in the water tanks at the Cecil without anyone seeing her there?

On the street wandering, in another hotel, or with someone else in their residence.

Some random thoughts..
Pre Oscar time must be a nightmare for the hotel and the "water scandal" although the scandal is really about how a young tourist ends up deceased, in a hotel water tank.
Would someone "foul" water in that way as revenge against the hotel, or possibly to sue them?

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._can_you_catch_from_water_that_s_touched.html
"People who drink or bathe with water that’s been contaminated by a corpse are more likely to experience psychological effects than physical illness. Learning that you’ve inadvertently been in such indirect yet intimate contact with a dead body could be traumatic, and it may cause anxiety or post-traumatic stress disorder, both of which are treatable with psychotherapy or antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication"

I don't know. There are so many criminals and predators and drug addicts around there, its more likely Elisa encountered a bad person by chance.

The Cecil is about 17 minutes away by freeway, from the academy awards. It's not in Hollywood. Its also kind of a junky hotel. I'm guessing people going could find a similar hotel closer to the awards.

Good morning. Is anybody else really frustrated that LE is so quiet in regards to a perp? The media here is really playing the mental health issue. Why the autopsy on the brain?
I don't think she got in the tank herself! The opening seems so small. I noticed looking up this morning while in my parking lot next to the cecil that the bottom of the left back tank is cut out, at least 3-4 feet of a square hole. You would be able to see someone on the top of that tank looking up on the sidewalk on main. LE doesn't even seem to be asking for witnesses.

I have no doubt that LE is on this. They have likely questioned everyone there, employees, canvassed the streets, etc. Anything we can think of they can and will do. They could be questioning a perp right now.

As to playing the mental health thing, Elisa Lam apparently has a significant history of mental issues and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a mental health professional to say she is acting in a manner that doesn't suggest a break from reality. It's kind of a little bit logical , IMO, to suggest something was hapening to Elisa mentally, around the time she died or was murdered.

I'm resisting, but tempted. The Cecil has always freaked me out. If LE doesn't start talking I may start investigating. (Kidding) really though, the energy in these buildings is very negative. I've felt it in the Alexandria and I'm sure the Cecil would creep me out. You can feel the death. LA feels like a film noir.
Anyway, point is, that tank is very visible from main. And if enough of you convince me, maaaybbeee ill go in and take a pic for you. Even though I think there's a perp in that hotel. Freaky.

I debated going myself! But I'm sure NOW security there is paying attention and wouldn't let us in!

 

[gitana1]

Hey, I notice there are a ton of guests on the thread. Everyone has something interesting to say. Why don't you join up? It's very quick.

 

[x_files]

I looked on youtube for "Cecil Hotel LA" and there is a video of the sunset from the roof of the Cecil Hotel from June 2012.

They are on the roof because they pan down a couple of times and you can see the parapet of the roof, and also the roof of the building next door to the hotel. The video is not through a hotel room window, or from the fire escape.

And then there was the video someone posted of the loogan walking on the beam between the wings of the hotel (totally wacked).

And the graffiti.

So it looks like it was common knowledge amongst hotel guests that you could go up to the roof without setting off an alarm.

A fairly busy place.

And occupants of other nearby buildings can look at the roof of the hotel, including the tanks.

So why put a body in the tank?

It would take a few minutes, during which time someone else could come up onto the roof, or someone in an adjacent building could observe and report.

Does that mean there was more than one person, and they had a spotter/helper?

And why the tank?

Most people wouldn't think of the tank as a place to put a body, and wouldn't even know about a removable lid. To most people, they are just an object that doesn't elicit any consideration.

You would have to be familiar with the roof, even have previously removed the lid and peered in.

You either wanted to buy some time before the body was found, thinking like most people that bodies float and don't plug up drains.

Or you were aware of another situation where a body was place in a roof top tank, and putting the body in the water tank had some meaning to you.

I think several people could be involved.
If it's dark at night no one would notice. Do you look at your window at 3am looking for someone to dump a body in a water tank? If there's no lights, black clothes would easily hide someone.
I don't think the person thought the body would sink.
It seems it was easy to access the roof by either disabling the alarm (which I suspect did not work properly or at all before this). Or easily climb on a fire exit stairs.

 

[Robert White]

Years ago I attended a conference at UBC, and I was surprised at how many communal washrooms/shower rooms existed at certain residences.

It doesn't add anything to the debate, but maybe she was more comfortable with it than others if she spent time at a friend's place on campus (I am assuming she lived at home with her parents, rather than campus).

 

[sherbetjello]

Interesting article via Slate.com:

If the body belonged to a generally healthy person, you might get sick from E. coli or another coliform bacteria from the deceased’s intestine. But that’s unlikely.

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt..._can_you_catch_from_water_that_s_touched.html

 

[Arnold kervon]

Hi everyone,

I've been following this case on Websleuths for the last couple of days and finally took the courage to register an account to discuss more. Please pardon me if I go wrong somewhere.

First off, I am an Asian (Chinese), I eat/live/sleep Chinese... And no, we do not have Asian/Chinese dance moves like how EL moved on camera as some suggested. In fact, according to our Chinese beliefs, EL looked more like she was 'possessed' than dancing. But of course, we'll live the supernatural 'possibility' aside for now.

Now... The main reason why I felt the need to join in the discussion was because I saw that a few of you lovely people didn't seem to put into the discussion of the way the corridors were laid out. Please allow me to quote 2 videos which I've found on Youtube for my post. (1st video earlier quoted on thread#1 by another)

First video: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unge9Zja8aY"]Stay Hotel Downtown Los Angeles CA - YouTube[/ame]
Uploaded: 4th Dec 2011.

Tour of a 'Stay Hotel' whose corridors bears striking resemblance to that of Cecil Hotel. We may or may not conclude that these places share the same corridor mapping/building structure... Some might think that Stay Hotel is Cecil Hotel, but I beg to differ because Stay Hotel using CARD system for their showers... whereas Cecil doesn't.

Second video: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zkukLsXdE0"]Tour of the Cecil hotel: The BEST hotel in downtown Los Angeles. - YouTube[/ame]
Uploaded: 4th July 2012.

Tour of Cecil Hotel itself by 2 young guys who actually stayed on the 14TH floor.

Sub-conclusive facts we can get from this video.
1: From the 2nd video, we can see that the walls were of a different color. Unless Cecil hotel had their walls repainted, we can conclude that Elisa wasn't on the 14th floor as many suggested earlier.

2: Elisa was definitely on the right lift. Because these guys were on the left lift when they were heading up, with the floor buttons located on the left side of the lift instead of right (what was on EL's video)

3: There is a shower room and 2 toilets to the right of the lift. So if Elisa WAS indeed talking to anyone that night... That person could using or standing at the shower/toilet (which might explain why that person wasn't seen walking PAST the lift after Elisa walked off)

4: There are rooms on BOTH sides of the lift and there may be a kitchen on the left and an EXIT door right next to the kitchen.

IMHO, I feel that she was under some kinda of substance influence or suffering from a mental problem. If we were to recall her video, the 2nd time she went back into the lift.. She was pressing the buttons repeatedly down the middle row top to bottom top to bottom. A person who is in stress and fear wouldn't do that... they'd be pounding on the buttons, frantically trying to figure out which button closes the door WHILE looking out of the lift for the perpetrator. EL wasn't even looking at the door... She was just staring into the buttons like almost dazed...going top button to bottom button... for 3 times.

I'm inclined on the fact that someone who works at Cecil Hotel spotted her being delusional and disoriented and thus took advantage of her.

As a Chinese with deep superstitions... My roots will say she was possessed and finished off... supernaturally.

RIP Elisa. Justice will prevail~!

 

[dotr]

This poi has been bothering students , could EL have encountered him? http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8957301
WESTWOOD, LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- UCLA campus police on Wednesday released a sketch of a man who tried to sexually assault a female student on campus last week.


On Jan. 7, the student was walking eastbound between UCLA Parking Structure 9 and the Engineering IV building when the suspect approached her from behind and threatened to sexually assault her. He grabbed the victim, but she was able to break free and get away. The man then fled the scene on foot.

The suspect was described as a white man between 30 to 35 years old with a thin build and short black hair, standing about 5 feet 10 inches to 6 feet tall. He was wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt and blue jeans.

Students Luzdelia Caballero and Azeb Guesh say they're making sure to walk in groups

 

[PopeReal]

This case has really been bothering me. I felt that the news and reporters totally read her reactions in that elevator wrongly. I see a woman who is being followed. I think someone in maintenance or someone who knows that hotel well; possibly killed her; and was following her. There should be more surv camera's from where she got off that elevator.....it's truly scary to see her holding up her hands like STOP leave me alone....that's what her reaction in that enclosed space said to me! I don't know if this will be solved; but it has to be someone strong; a man; who knew about access to those tanks: IE a maintenance worker of some kind. Just a theory...my working theory so far.

That is how I see the video also. Her actions don't seem so crazy if there was noise or someone out in the hall. And even if it turns out she was on something, that does not mean that no foul play was involved. It just seems that some tend to see a crazy or drugged person and therefor she just climbed into a water tank and died. If she was in some sort of troubled state I think it would make it much more difficult to access the roof and climb into the water tank.

It could turn out the elevator video itself has nothing to do with her death, but whatever happened someone else had to be involved in her getting into that water tank. Probably an employee or long time guest (or someone who had been up on the roof before). Just my working theory so far.

 

[Sillybilly]

I also agree with this. Given the opening size (someone mentioned 13 inches?), it would be highly unlikely one would fit in that without causing pain to one's self. You would also need considerable arm strength to lower yourself in from the edges, unless you jumped in vertical. However you run the high risk of knocking yourself out on the vertical descent (ie. chin to edge).

Re the 13" ... that was an initial give-or-take estimate based on LAPD saying the tank was 4.5' wide and I took the hatch to be approx 1/4 the width of the tank. Looking at the pic ^^ (and doing an unsophisticated measurement using pieces of paper) it seems the hatch is 1/5 the width of the tank (which would reduce the size of the hatch to approx 10.8".

However, looking at the size of the hatch in relation to the firefighter's hand, hat, etc, I would be surprised if that opening was only the 10.8".

 

[Sillybilly]

I'm resisting, but tempted. The Cecil has always freaked me out. If LE doesn't start talking I may start investigating. (Kidding) really though, the energy in these buildings is very negative. I've felt it in the Alexandria and I'm sure the Cecil would creep me out. You can feel the death. LA feels like a film noir.
Anyway, point is, that tank is very visible from main. And if enough of you convince me, maaaybbeee ill go in and take a pic for you. Even though I think there's a perp in that hotel. Freaky.

Just strap your things on your back and scoot up the fire escape ladders .. nobody will notice

wrt perp in hotel ... seems AT has been there for 26 years. Folks might be pretty used to him wandering the halls anytime/day/night. I've even pondered that he might be relied upon for some security or other small jobs at the hotel in exchange for reduced rent or other small perks.

 

[x_files]

Very interesting stuff guys...

I was also wondering if the lid on the tank had been sealed when the maintenance man went to have a look.

Another thing I'm confused by....was she staying in Stay, the "hipper" hostel aimed at a younger crowd, which I believe is right next to Cecil (and Elise mentions in her tumblr about the big hotel next door built in the 1920s I think? I think she is referring to the Cecil...Can't post link as cause of the font colour I can barely read her blog...can't change colour either as I'm sing an iPad).

So is Stay a part of Cecil, are they connected yet separate like townhouses of do they bleed in to eachother??? Ie once inside one, you're inside both?? It's harder to find ino on stay because the name is so generic!!

Here's a pic of a stay hallway, see same tiles and basic look as Cecil

Anyone else find the black dog painting foreboding and kinda creepy? I love all kinds of art but in a hotel doesn't seem very welcoming to me esp. with it's dark history.

 

[mollymae]

I think it's safe to say the footage has been edited to make someone in it "disappear". Which explains her hand gestures and other oddities. This is why we can't make sense of it.

I work for a private investigation company and I can tell you that we are required to edit out any video footage of individuals who are NOT our subject because of the privacy laws.

 

[Sillybilly]

This case is international. Sad, but I think it could be slowing thing down.

<rsbm>

I have RCMP in the family and know better than to ask questions.

Recognizing that this is an LAPD case, does anyone know how much the RCMP might be involved in the investigation?

 

[fred&edna]

Another bizarre coincidence is there was a Japanese movie made called 'Dark Water', where a mother and her toddler daughter move into a sleazy run-down hotel and the little girl ends up climbing into the hotel water tank. Throughout the movie they have elevator trouble with people having funny tasting water! Extremely strange coincidence. See the trailer of the movie here:
dark water japanese trailer.mp4 - YouTube

This movie is the first thing my son mentioned when we discussed this case.

Info on American remake of the movie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Water_(2005_film)

 

[jon999]

Hi everyone. I'm new here. Like many other people, I've really been touched by this story and I hope the case will be solved soon so that her family and friends have closure.

Anyway. there's something that has really been bothering me since yesterday:

Officials plan to perform an autopsy Thursday. But the sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the case was ongoing, said investigators said it's possible her death was accidental.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+lanowblog+(L.A.+Now)

Sources close to the case told the Los Angeles Times newspaper that her death may have been accidental.

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/autopsy-results-for-elisa-lam-inconclusive-more-tests-needed-1.1165941

When I hear about a young woman found dead in a water tank on the top of a sketchy hotel in a bad part of LA, the first thing I think of is "murder". Yet, the LAPD seems to be confident that it could very well be an accident. Why is that? I'm thinking that a crucial detail has not been made public. A detail that could possibly be embarrassing for the LAPD. The only thing I can think of is this: the lid was open all along since february 1st. It was open when the roof was searched and yet they didn't notice.

Of course, it doesn't rule out the possibility of foul play, but it greatly increases the odds of an accidental death.

Other possible clues that would point to an accidental death:
-Prescription or illicit drugs found in her hotel room.
-Strange letters or drawing indicating a possible psychotic episode.
-An history of sleepwalking.
-A suicide note

Without any of these, how could anyone ever consider her death to be accidental?

 

[matou]

Does the hotel use an electronic card type key to get in? I don't see anything in her hand in the elevator video. Could it be in her shorts?