CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[skyfitsheaven]

I hear ya. But this is literally driving me crazy. There are so many pieces of this puzzle that do not add up or make sense, and frankly I don't have much faith in the police department's investigation.

I am trying not to think about the elevator video and instead examine the facts, or what we believe to be facts:

FACT: She told her family she was traveling through California on her way to Santa Cruz.
FACT: She checked into the Cecil on January 26th.
FACT: She ceased communication with her family by January 31st.

My questions:
Why was Santa Cruz her final destination?
Why did she stop in LA, and why was she using a borrowed cell phone?
If she lost her borrowed cell phone as she writes in her Tumblr, how was she making daily calls home? Payphone? Hotel phone?
If she lost her borrowed cell phone, whats up with the phone that police found in her hotel room?

If she posted on Tumblr that she was doing a "West Coast" tour, then they knew she was going to LA. She posted on her Tumblr with the dates. Friends have said on reddit that she was posting about her trip on Facebook daily and was excited about the trip. It is not a mystery that she was travelling, she even had a goodbye party before she took off. Let's stop perpetuating this myth that no one knew what she was doing.

She was traveling to Santa Cruz to participate in a farming program that has nothing to do with Supreme Master Ching-Hai. There are many of those kinds of programs that are very hippie-ish in Northern California. It is not unheard of at all. She was clearly troubled and looking for a way out of attending school.

She loses her borrowed cell phone and I imagine she could have easily bought a new phone at a drugstore OR she just switched to her Canadian phone. She likely just borrowed a friend's blackberry that was compatible with a US provider that had data accesible. As a female travelling alone, having data on your phone (for maps, and other info) is very crucial.

I have travelled to Canada many times and can tell you that roaming fees are outrageous and I either use Skype on my phone with Wi-Fi or bite the bullet and roam for a few minutes. I imagine Elisa did the same thing.

There are many puzzling aspects to this case, but the above is really not that complex.

 

[medsleuth]

The shoes in the video appear flat to me - not high heels. But I do think it's fair to question if it's Elisa in the video. Elisa's forehead and other facial features appear broader to me than the Asian woman in the video.

Hi. I was a friend of Elisa. I haven't seen or heard from her in over a year, but we use to hang out and talk quite a bit online before I moved to Montreal. In my opinion the lady in the elevator isn't her, not only because the woman doesn't look like Elisa in the face, but it also appears the person in the elevator is wearing heels with straps. I've never seen or known Elisa to wear shoes that look like that. Also climbing up a steep ladder to a roof with heels on seems quite impossible in my mind. Elisa also had contact lenses she wore, she didn't always wear glasses. She was near-sighted.

The shoes the woman has on in the elevator sort of looks like they would be in this style:

I've never seen or have known Elisa to wear shoes like that. I've never known Elisa to wear heels at all... In my mind I could overhear me and her laughing at girls wearing those "prostitute heels". She was full of funnies and was quite blunt at times. I really don't think she would be caught dead in shoes like that!

<modsnip>
I really don't feel it's her in the elevator.

 

[meteen]

• Apparently, she wanted to work on an organic farm.
• LA is a tourist hotspot.
• Phones in Canada are often locked to their carrier, and the roaming plans are prohibitively expensive.

Gee, thanks for coming out.

"Apparently she wanted to work on an organic farm" isn't enough for me. I want sources and verification. What farm? When was she supposed to arrive?

No duh LA is a tourist hot spot, but do we know anything else about the who/why/what/whens of her time there aside from attending a taping of Conan O'Brien and The Last Bookstore?

 

[noodled1]

I may be naive but I don't see why anyone would lie or make up a story regarding this case. He is also using I assume his real name as you have to login to FB to write a comment. He also mentions Alvin has a adopted son named Aiden which I haven't heard anywhere else, and that he often is at the cafe next door socializing with hotel guests. I just don't understand why he would be lying.

Because it's what some people do on the internet. I modded a basketball forum. You wouldn't believe the stuff folks even adults did. WE had one guy who lived out an entire fantasy life as a AAU coach from Woodland Hills, Ca. Talked about all the athletes LA Lakers he knew etc etc etc...

After so many complaints of his "know it all" posting style a quick google on his e-mail and IP search traced him to be a middle aged civil servant in NY...lol

We never exposed him and 3 years later he's still merrily posting away under that persona. He'll say he spent the day at the Lakers training facility but the IP shows he's still posting from the same old city desk in NY... And he's just one of maybe 3 dozen... Look at the football player that got scammed recently

It happens all too frequently

 

[KellyConQueso]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the dark marks visible to the left of the cistern hatch in this photo?

Note that the marks are absent in this later photo:

There could be an innocuous explanation for those marks. Perhaps they were created on the day of the body's discovery; they look greasy, so perhaps the maintenance man (or subsequent investigators) dirtied it by resting tools or their own appendages on it.

But what if the marks were already there before the gruesome discovery was made? Possible evidence of a struggle (or more sinister labours), left unwittingly at the scene (or even unknowingly, if it was too dark to see the marks)?

If they were left by a perpetrator, they could yield valuable information. But that's a big "if". This is all speculation, of course, but the presence of those marks -- and their absence in later photos -- is truly food for thought. Thoughts, anyone?

Edit: Perhaps the marks were left by someone completely uninvolved with the case, but I'm inclined to doubt it. Why only that cistern (as far as I can tell), and why only near the hatch?

water or fingerprint dust?

 

[samevo8]

EL also mentions that she was thinking or planning on taking an intro computer programming class at UCSC extension and laments that the UCSC extension is offered in Santa Clara, which is not close to Santa Cruz.

Gee, thanks for coming out.

"Apparently she wanted to work on an organic farm" isn't enough for me. I want sources and verification. What farm? When was she supposed to arrive?

No duh LA is a tourist hot spot, but do we know anything else about the who/why/what/whens of her time there aside from attending a taping of Conan O'Brien and The Last Bookstore?

 

[meteen]

If she posted on Tumblr that she was doing a "West Coast" tour, then they knew she was going to LA. She posted on her Tumblr with the dates. Friends have said on reddit that she was posting about her trip on Facebook daily and was excited about the trip. It is not a mystery that she was travelling, she even had a goodbye party before she took off. Let's stop perpetuating this myth that no one knew what she was doing.

She was traveling to Santa Cruz to participate in a farming program that has nothing to do with Supreme Master Ching-Hai. There are many of those kinds of programs that are very hippie-ish in Northern California. It is not unheard of at all. She was clearly troubled and looking for a way out of attending school.

She loses her borrowed cell phone and I imagine she could have easily bought a new phone at a drugstore OR she just switched to her Canadian phone. She likely just borrowed a friend's blackberry that was compatible with a US provider that had data accesible. As a female travelling alone, having data on your phone (for maps, and other info) is very crucial.

I have travelled to Canada many times and can tell you that roaming fees are outrageous and I either use Skype on my phone with Wi-Fi or bite the bullet and roam for a few minutes. I imagine Elisa did the same thing.

There are many puzzling aspects to this case, but the above is really not that complex.

I'm not saying that any of the above is complex, but rather that it doesn't make sense. I thought web sleuths was a place where people went to share ideas and information in an effort to find answers. If that's not the case, let me know and I'll go elsewhere.

I'm very familiar with live/work hippie farms. They're all over the US. That a person might want to take a semester off and work on one to get is not a mystery to me. What I find strange about it is that we have only a post about a Facebook post and some reddit posts to back it up.

Edited to add: I hardly think that by trying to piece together a cohesive and accurate timeline of Elisa Lam's whereabouts and motives in the days before her disappearance I'm doing anything close to "perpetuating a myth". The possibility does exist that there may be a disconnect between what she told her family and friends, and what she did IRL.

 

[skyfitsheaven]

I think she just wanted to come to California and the farm may have been one of her ideas. There was probably no other way to justify it to her family.

 

[Joe Friday]

Yeah.. I wouldn't call CNN credible.. after all look at the man they interviewed in that very link.

http://www.bustedoffenders.com/california/los-angeles/sex-offenders/alvin-taylor/1869408332832

Just makes you wonder just how much "investigative" work they do at all.. if any.

FYI - Although Alvin Taylor is an RSO I seriously doubt he had anything to do with Elisa's disappearance. According to the following website I believe he is legally blind or blind in one eye. I don't think there is much chance a 67 year old partially blind guy is going to get a body into a water tank on top of the roof.

Also according to his address listed on this site I believe he lives on the 10th floor of the hotel.

JMO

http://www.sorarchives.com/directory/CA/T/Alvin_Taylor_1072663

 

[catatonia]

Does this link work?

http://translate.google.de/translat...tp://bbs.tianya.cn/post-free-3077181-98.shtml

It's translated by Google so one better don't expect too much

 

[medsleuth]

She doesn't press all the buttons - only the buttons in the middle column. Almost as if she's expecting the elevator to behave in a certain way if she hits just the right combination of buttons. For example I've seen information that says if you press a street crossing button in a certain pattern you can get the WALK light to activate immediately. I can't imagine what she was hoping would come of her sequenced button pushing. If it was to escape pressing 1 and Close Door arrows would be the way to go. If she was in a panic then perhaps she'd flail at any buttons at all. There's also an alarm button if you're in danger. How about this - perhaps someone was pulling a prank on her - "if you press this sequence of buttons you will get to the secret 13th floor!"

IMO the likely reason for releasing the segment they chose to was likely
To also show her demeanour the day she went missing....
Even if the playback speed of the video is questioned, one has to ask why did she press all the buttons, which leads to ask what was her state of mind at the time of her last known sighting...

LE is likely asking the same questions as we are, it looks like she's interacting with someone, is she? Does anyone that was living on the top floor recall any noises that day?

The video likely doesn't show what floor she was on either , so LE is also trying to establish , like we are, was she on the 15th floor?

Anyways... Keep the discussions coming....
This case is sooooooo addicting! Unfortunately someone has lost their life!

 

[smash the stack]

FYI - Although Alvin Taylor is an RSO I seriously doubt he had anything to do with Elisa's disappearance. According to the following website I believe he is legally blind or blind in one eye. I don't think there is much chance a 67 year old partially blind guy is going to get a body into a water tank on top of the roof.

Also according to his address listed on this site I believe he lives on the 10th floor of the hotel.

JMO

http://www.sorarchives.com/directory/CA/T/Alvin_Taylor_1072663

True.. but every plan has a mastermind.

 

[catatonia]

Is there any information about his adopted son?

 

[smash the stack]

Is there any information about his adopted son?

From the photo of him and "Michael Jackson" and the two kids.. it appears there are two "sons" or "grandsons".

 

[Borris]

Hotel Cecil Warning Sign - "Awful place! Just got escorted out by security because I was visiting a friend in a room. Apparently there's NO VISITORS ALLOWED ANY TIME. They told me I had to just show my ID downstairs and I would be fine. And then they told me I had to leave and wouldn't even let me go back for my bag!"

View from the Elevator - Common area shower / bathroom, and another door with red plaque. What's it say?

Room bath - "Make note of the shower curtain rod. The rod and curtain are what demarcate the shower area from the rest of the bathroom. That&#8217;s right, at the Cecil Hotel, you no longer have to choose between showering and pooping! Actually, that&#8217;s not true. The shower nozzle is angled away from the toilet and towards the back wall. Even if it weren&#8217;t, the water pressure isn&#8217;t sufficient to reach the toilet."

 

[catatonia]

The floor looks so clean/sterile and also someway "cold".

 

[skyfitsheaven]

I'm not saying that any of the above is complex, but rather that it doesn't make sense. I thought web sleuths was a place where people went to share ideas and information in an effort to find answers. If that's not the case, let me know and I'll go elsewhere.

I'm very familiar with live/work hippie farms. They're all over the US. That a person might want to take a semester off and work on one to get is not a mystery to me. What I find strange about it is that we have only a post about a Facebook post and some reddit posts to back it up.

Edited to add: I hardly think that by trying to piece together a cohesive and accurate timeline of Elisa Lam's whereabouts and motives in the days before her disappearance I'm doing anything close to "perpetuating a myth". The possibility does exist that there may be a disconnect between what she told her family and friends, and what she did IRL.

We'll have to respectfully disagree. I feel that many of these things do make sense, especially when taken into context.

The myth is that no one knew where she was and what she was doing in California: this is false. Elisa posted about her travel plans on her Tumblr, she told friends about them, she spoke with her family daily. Her plans were likely not concrete, this is not unusual for a young person basically backpacking. She stayed at Cecil/Stay because it was cheap.

I am also wondering what Elisa did in San Diego and what she did before she disappeared in LA. Those answers are probably on her private Facebook page and in her emails, texts, etc. Those parts of the timeline are what are missing. The rest is pretty clear.

The issue with the phone, I think is also pretty clear. She either picked up a new cheap phone or she switched to her Canadian phone. It's not hard to buy a cell phone. Elisa was not dumb.

I am happy to speculate but I feel like there are certain points we are going over in circles and they are not the most complex parts of the case. Young girl with history of instability not being totally open about what she was doing/where she was is not unusual.

 

[FutzBucket]

Something that I find very interesting in the video is, how at 1:05, the suspect gets EL off camera. Yes, it's only for a moment, but it happens.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM&feature=player_detailpage#t=65s"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]

What I find so interesting about this, is the suspect lets her go. Not only does he let her go, but he counts to 20.

I'm serious, you can time it on a watch. The suspect gives her 20-seconds to leave. Try it. Starting at 1:30, the moment she enters the elevator, he gives her exactly 20-seconds to use the elevator to leave.

I believe this rules out sex crimes. If this was a sex crime, the video would have ended at 1:05. If the initial purpose of this encounter was murder, the video would have ended at 1:05.

Two times in the video we can clearly see EL place at least one hand on the back of her head, which causes me to assume she has the other hand as well. The position of having both hands on the back of your head tells me that she has a gun on her.

If she has a gun on her, and the suspect attempted to let her go, then this can only be one of two scenarios; she either got mugged or someone thinks she's trespassing.

At first I thought there might have been a mugging of sorts, but I'm now doubting that. A mugger wouldn't operate on the floor he's staying on, so he would just run. The only reason why someone would kill EL for failing to leave the floor, would be someone who thought EL was trespassing.

No, I don't mean security. I mean an occupant of the 14th floor.

 

[kingsway]

Gee, thanks for coming out.

"Apparently she wanted to work on an organic farm" isn't enough for me. I want sources and verification. What farm? When was she supposed to arrive?

No duh LA is a tourist hot spot, but do we know anything else about the who/why/what/whens of her time there aside from attending a taping of Conan O'Brien and The Last Bookstore?

Then you should have been more specific in your questions.

 

[Joe Friday]

Hotel Cecil Warning Sign - "Awful place! Just got escorted out by security because I was visiting a friend in a room. Apparently there's NO VISITORS ALLOWED ANY TIME. They told me I had to just show my ID downstairs and I would be fine. And then they told me I had to leave and wouldn't even let me go back for my bag!"

View from the Elevator - Common area shower / bathroom, and another door with red plaque. What's it say?

Room bath - "Make note of the shower curtain rod. The rod and curtain are what demarcate the shower area from the rest of the bathroom. That’s right, at the Cecil Hotel, you no longer have to choose between showering and pooping! Actually, that’s not true. The shower nozzle is angled away from the toilet and towards the back wall. Even if it weren’t, the water pressure isn’t sufficient to reach the toilet."

Borris are these picture you took while in the hotel?