Hotel Cecil Rooftop Access Discussion

[Peter Brendt]

Hmmm...anything is possible at this point, but when looking at the role of drugs and alcohol I think we need to keep in mind that...

If we believe that Tumblr account is by EL:

* EL did not drink and was not shy about saying what she thought of it.

* We cannot assume that EL had any of that med cocktail in her when she died. The pill posting was 10 months ago and she credited one of the SSIRs as working for her - can't recall which one. It might be safe to assume she was at least still taking that one.

I honestly don't see her as a party girl, but I can see her being drugged. I just read a heartfelt account from a former customer of her family's restaurant who knew EL when she was a young girl and he says that the video is so uncharacteristic of her that after watching it he was physically ill and cannot sleep over it. Pretty extreme reaction but not so if knowing that she was drugged with the intention of having that video circulated.

Everything about this case is so weird. The involvement of Interpol on day one plus subsequent media blackout says to me international "serial murder" alert. Thousands go missing across borders every year, but how often does Interpol initiate a missing persons case directly with a local police department right away before cause of death is determined? In fact, LAPD's Teague said that Interpol's involvement means the case goes straight to their homicide investigators. This is the only scenario making sense to me right now.

Serial Muder alert ... now that spoils my day. I haven't heard of a second case yet, but then, in the beginning, some of them have years between murders (Dahmer for example had 7 years between the first and the second victim). And this one, striking at a tourist in a hotel that is rather kind of a youth hostel with a dark history, would be probably rather a traveler or drifter type, they are often hard to catch. And under this point of view, it would be border crossing in more than one aspect (as in, if Interpol knows something, it has to be body(s) outside of the US). So, no offense, but I still hope, you're wrong.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Just thinking about it, but often the shy not drinking ones are the most vulnerable when social environments for them into party situations.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Serial Muder alert ... now that spoils my day. I haven't heard of a second case yet, but then, in the beginning, some of them have years between murders (Dahmer for example had 7 years between the first and the second victim). And this one, striking at a tourist in a hotel that is rather kind of a youth hostel with a dark history, would be probably rather a traveler or drifter type, they are often hard to catch. And under this point of view, it would be border crossing in more than one aspect (as in, if Interpol knows something, it has to be body(s) outside of the US). So, no offense, but I still hope, you're wrong.

There was another Asian female around 21 found in Newport Beach CA (between San Diego and LA) faced own on the beach naked. Police are not releasing any information. She was a former prostitute. I used to live at that beach. Lots of bars and seedy people. Her body was found near lifeguard tower 71.
http://ktla.com/2013/03/07/womans-body-found-on-beach-in-newport/

Her death is being called suspicious. They initially could not decide the manner of death bc no outward signs of trauma (like Elisa)

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Just thinking about it, but often the shy not drinking ones are the most vulnerable when social environments for them into party situations.

Great assumption! Very true with many young people. Good eye

 

[Peter Brendt]

There was another Asian female around 21 found in Newport Beach CA (between San Diego and LA) faced own on the beach naked. Police are not releasing any information. She was a former prostitute. I used to live at that beach. Lots of bars and seedy people. Her body was found near lifeguard tower 71.
http://ktla.com/2013/03/07/womans-body-found-on-beach-in-newport/

Her death is being called suspicious. They initially could not decide the manner of death bc no outward signs of trauma (like Elisa)

Still, that one was local and had a local record, otherwise police wouldn't have identified her that fast. So the only possible hotel connection would be "hotel service" or making out via Craigslist (or similar). But her record, all this loitering to solicit sounds more like the street corner and hotel bar kind of prostitute than the Internet variety. But hotel bar and casino then is a world away from youth hostel type of hotel.
Soooo, the only possible connection sounds to be water, rather than the hunting ground. If so at all of course. Thinking aloud and just for the sake of the argument, if, it would be a time of ab. 4 weeks between two victims, that would put him in the fast-burner category (unless we missed a lot of victims long before EL, of course). I think, I need more to chew on in this scenario.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Still, that one was local and had a local record, otherwise police wouldn't have identified her that fast. So the only possible hotel connection would be "hotel service" or making out via Craigslist (or similar). But her record, all this loitering to solicit sounds more like the street corner and hotel bar kind of prostitute than the Internet variety. But hotel bar and casino then is a world away from youth hostel type of hotel.
Soooo, the only possible connection sounds to be water, rather than the hunting ground. If so at all of course. Thinking aloud and just for the sake of the argument, if, it would be a time of ab. 4 weeks between two victims, that would put him in the fast-burner category (unless we missed a lot of victims long before EL, of course). I think, I need more to chew on in this scenario.

Idk. The Cecil is known for sex trafficking which is why there aren't many cameras for surveillance. The girl found on the beach was naked and had no litter signs of trauma like Elisa's body. Both victims were Asian and near the same age. Both victims have secret investigations going on. I live here and I don't think it matters which victims are local or not. I think it is more a matter of the suspect and the places he/they frequent. Elisa was in the wrong seedy hotel and suspect was there. This other female was in the wrong place knowingly and the suspect was there. Both bodies found with no putter signs of trauma, but their cellphones and ID had been taken. Both?

Not saying its an obvious connection, but considering all the local news I read here in SoCal I don't see many cases where the police keep mum like this.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

This girl found on the beach could have been drugged and then drowned in ocean while incapacitated and not responsive. Very same could have happened to Elisa, whether she was drugged than drown in the tank.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Still, that one was local and had a local record, otherwise police wouldn't have identified her that fast. So the only possible hotel connection would be "hotel service" or making out via Craigslist (or similar). But her record, all this loitering to solicit sounds more like the street corner and hotel bar kind of prostitute than the Internet variety. But hotel bar and casino then is a world away from youth hostel type of hotel.
Soooo, the only possible connection sounds to be water, rather than the hunting ground. If so at all of course. Thinking aloud and just for the sake of the argument, if, it would be a time of ab. 4 weeks between two victims, that would put him in the fast-burner category (unless we missed a lot of victims long before EL, of course). I think, I need more to chew on in this scenario.

And lil I said, it's not one guy. It's about 4 or 5 guys from Perverse Productions who are well known for drugging and raping women. Theyve tried before to kill. Read my posts on page 9 if you are interested in my theory bc it makes a lof more sense than some BS teburculosis conspiracy.

Changes the burning time up a bit when you have a sadistic gang of serial rapists instead of just one suspect.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I always wondered about that search thing. In Europe, they go from door to door in such cases and ask for permission. Most people when they hear what it is about, give their permission and so, they are out of the story, proven innocent and uninvolved.
But then, at least, they don't turn over everything when they do it in Europe. How is it here?

Once the hotel guest pays for, and occupies, the room, it becomes the equivalent of the guest's home for purposes of 4th amendment search and seizure. The police would therefore need a warrant, or some exception to the warrant requirement (exigent circumstances, occupant's consent to search, etc.) to legally search the room. The hotel clerk's consent to search an occupied room would be constitutionally ineffective.

See the Supreme Court case Stoner v. California, 1964, available on the internet.
3 years ago Report Abuse

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

There was another Asian female around 21 found in Newport Beach CA (between San Diego and LA) faced own on the beach naked. Police are not releasing any information. She was a former prostitute. I used to live at that beach. Lots of bars and seedy people. Her body was found near lifeguard tower 71.
http://ktla.com/2013/03/07/womans-body-found-on-beach-in-newport/

Her death is being called suspicious. They initially could not decide the manner of death bc no outward signs of trauma (like Elisa)

Here's a more fair article about victim found on beach Tina Haong. Not as bias as the previous article...
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2013/03/newport_beach_woman_dead_3-4-13.php

 

[OCSlacker]

There was another Asian female around 21 found in Newport Beach CA (between San Diego and LA) faced own on the beach naked. Police are not releasing any information. She was a former prostitute. I used to live at that beach. Lots of bars and seedy people. Her body was found near lifeguard tower 71.
http://ktla.com/2013/03/07/womans-body-found-on-beach-in-newport/

Her death is being called suspicious. They initially could not decide the manner of death bc no outward signs of trauma (like Elisa)

Not sure how long ago you lived here but I lived near Rialto and Marcus for years. Not a whole lot of bars up near highland that I recall seeing. I was just at Newport park playing racquetball on Sunday, stopped by cappy's for breakfast, but hey maybe I'm just not looking.

There are a whole bunch about 3 miles down beach, including what some would consider dives, like the beach ball and Mutt Lynch's but they are at least 2-3 miles from where she was found and mainly get the college kid crowd with a few regulars mixed in. Funny thing is, I think whatever happened, it happened close by to where she was found. If it was a homicide, the person clearly wanted the body to be found. It's dark on the beach at night but the homes are too close by to carry a body from a car parked on the street to the beach or vice versa without seriously risking being seen. Lots and lots of better places to hide a body though and not very far away. Heck, you have the whole industrial area near the the water treatment plant just over the Santa Ana in HB , castaway and upper newport bay park, which personally I find creepy as hell.

As far as seedy people I guess that's up for interpretation. I'm in the area where she was found a few times a week when I'm in town and all I really see are kids and old people. A big problem in Newport is all the rental property, lots of 20 somethings who get 6 people together to rent a duplex for a week or two.Still not as bad as HB in that department but it's not like the Hessians or the Mongrels are hanging out in the area.

If you are referring to the drug rehab clientele that have now become infamous in Newport and the cause of much contention through the years, it's gotten much better since about 2009-10. At $20,000 a month for rehab, they don't exactly get the "seedy" type of addict but it still has caused a lot of problems for homeowners in the area. No one wants their 2-4 million dollar house down the street from a sober living facility and we would all be much much happier if they would just go away. At least now they are regulated, it is not even close to what it was 6 years ago. Many of the facilities have closed and West Newport is no longer considered the sober living mecca it once was. They have really scaled back. As far as I know there isn't a sober living facility near highland. The closest one is about 1-2 miles away I think.

Overall, it's a pretty safe community though and everybody was shocked that a young woman was found dead on the beach. It's possible someone or a group of guys who rented/ owned a place nearby called an escort service, could have been doing drugs together or she was high when she got there, she OD'd, they dumped the body on the beach. That's just my opinion. Although with the houses being so close together I would think they lived very close to where she was found or the risk of getting spotted would be too high. I guess we will know more when the toxicology report comes back. You do have a very valid point about the media not picking up either story. It's been very hush hush on the part of PD but hoping the media will pick up the story again when the toxicology reports come back.

 

[Sillybilly]

It's possible someone or a group of guys who rented/ owned a place nearby called an escort service, could have been doing drugs together or she was high when she got there, she OD'd, they dumped the body on the beach.

<rsbm>

Dunno about that part OC ... IMO, those types don't usually have some nice memorial candles handy to set beside a body they've just dumped.

MOO

 

[OCSlacker]

<rsbm>

Dunno about that part OC ... IMO, those types don't usually have some nice memorial candles handy to set beside a body they've just dumped.

MOO

Completely forgot about the candles. I remember reading about that when it first happened .. good point

 

[margarita25]

Thought I'd post this just in case anyone has missed it (Chinese Media Thread [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200697"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200697[/ame])...has some good stuff.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Idk. The Cecil is known for sex trafficking which is why there aren't many cameras for surveillance. The girl found on the beach was naked and had no litter signs of trauma like Elisa's body. Both victims were Asian and near the same age. Both victims have secret investigations going on. I live here and I don't think it matters which victims are local or not. I think it is more a matter of the suspect and the places he/they frequent. Elisa was in the wrong seedy hotel and suspect was there. This other female was in the wrong place knowingly and the suspect was there. Both bodies found with no putter signs of trauma, but their cellphones and ID had been taken. Both?

Not saying its an obvious connection, but considering all the local news I read here in SoCal I don't see many cases where the police keep mum like this.

I noticed, PDs in California were in the last years pretty ready and willing to involve the public by giving information, unlike PDs in other parts of the country, who have this police of secrecy since decades and successfully gave SKs decade long careers by that. So, yes, maybe that's a little unusual for SoCal since they were in the past brighter than that.
Still, I study serial killers since a long time and I know one thing for certain: I need more to chew on to go over this bridge. That doesn't mean, I don't think, there is a connection or I think, there is one. It simply means, I would prefer a little bit more information before making up my opinion about a possible connection here.

And to get this wrong: The point, that one girl was in a hotel and the other one a local prostitute shouldn't matter for the police. But it matters in terms of victimology, because it establishes two different kinds of hunting grounds. One is a tourist in a hostel/hotel, rather on the cheap side, the other one a prostitute with some priors for soliciting in places that call money. So the interesting point for me is not whether LE treats them differently or not, the interesting point for me is, under the theoretical assumption, we have an SK here, what is his comfort zone in physical and social terms?

 

[Peter Brendt]

And lil I said, it's not one guy. It's about 4 or 5 guys from Perverse Productions who are well known for drugging and raping women. Theyve tried before to kill. Read my posts on page 9 if you are interested in my theory bc it makes a lof more sense than some BS teburculosis conspiracy.

Changes the burning time up a bit when you have a sadistic gang of serial rapists instead of just one suspect.

Oh, I read your posts, no worries. But at this time, all I can offer is an estimation. Those guys are not bright enough and not organized enough IMO to have pulled that off. And they live there, they would have had vehicles at their disposal. So for any of them, it would have been as easy or hard to transport a body down and out of the hotel than to transport a body up on the roof, but out of the hotel and dump somewhere else would have made the identification harder and give the doer more time delay. But that's only IMO.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Once the hotel guest pays for, and occupies, the room, it becomes the equivalent of the guest's home for purposes of 4th amendment search and seizure. The police would therefore need a warrant, or some exception to the warrant requirement (exigent circumstances, occupant's consent to search, etc.) to legally search the room. The hotel clerk's consent to search an occupied room would be constitutionally ineffective.

See the Supreme Court case Stoner v. California, 1964, available on the internet.
3 years ago Report Abuse

I spoke about the guest's consent. I mean, honestly, if I am at a hotel and police knocks and asks, they would like to search every room because a girl is missing, but can't look in my room because they have no warrant, what keeps me from saving them and myself time and nerves and inviting them to look and go on thier way after they know, the girl isn't in my room? It's a problem of social perception, I think.

 

[Peter Brendt]

<rsbm>

Dunno about that part OC ... IMO, those types don't usually have some nice memorial candles handy to set beside a body they've just dumped.

MOO

Forgot about the candles as well, thanks for the reminder. Candles are a classic ritualistic aspect. If there would have been burnt down candles on the roof as well, then I would be good to make that connection. But I haven't read anything about candles in the EL case or did I miss something?

 

[dotr]

Could it be this sort of perp?
Unusual, I thought usually perps. target same race victims...
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020501455_grantwarrants1xml.html
"Affidavits suggest rape suspect long targeted massage therapists

Danford Grant, a Seattle attorney accused in a series of rapes, appears to have been targeting Asian massage therapists for at least a year before allegedly committing the crimes that he&#8217;s been charged with, according to newly filed search-warrant affidavits"

 

[Peter Brendt]

Could it be this sort of perp?
Unusual, I thought usually perps. target same race victims...
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020501455_grantwarrants1xml.html
"Affidavits suggest rape suspect long targeted massage therapists

Danford Grant, a Seattle attorney accused in a series of rapes, appears to have been targeting Asian massage therapists for at least a year before allegedly committing the crimes that he’s been charged with, according to newly filed search-warrant affidavits"

Kinda, but it's in reality not that unusual, that "stay in their race" thing is more a TV show issue or well, found also in a lot of outdated works as well.
For sexual driven offenders, that includes those who use sex as means in power- and/or control gain violence, sexual attraction is key. Some like change (for example Albright, the Texas Eyeball Killer) and go fast through the available racial spectrum. Some are very type specific (for example Bundy, whose type included race, face shape, figure and of course, long hair). Some are concentrated on one point (for example Eckert, who went for long hair and didn't care about race). Some are counter-racial (for example Lemual Smith, who went for white ladies because some part of his motive bundle was simply racism). So there is some wide variety out there.

So the question, if it's not race, how would we recognize a possible connection. Lets take ethnicity just as a hint. There is a chance for several types to stay in one ethnic group. But to be a little bit safer in assumed connections, I would like to see more similarities in comfort zone (at least on type level) and signature, especially the ritual part.