NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[MMQC]

BBM

Beautiful girl, incl gorgeous figure and a head-turner (paraphrasing), very intelligent, etc.

Very hard for me to believe (BBM ^^)...perhaps, kept depth of prior relationships from you?

Anything is possible. I was not inside her head nor she in mine. Best friends do tend to keep somethings to themselves. Don't forget we were both from very traditional families. Experimenting with a beer was about as far as either one of us would go. I would have probably rathered get arrested for something and put in jail rather than go home and face the music at home, so to speak. Our families were good at the guilt trip type of stuff.

 

[Jmoose]

I am having a really hard time imagining that she threw her glasses against the dashboard, hopped out of the car, and disappeared, never to contact anyone who loves her again? Does anyone really get that angry? My dad used to hit us (all 6 of us) with his leather belt-I could only have wished that he drank a lot of beer, and walked on his hands! She was obviously stressed to a great degree not to speak to her family-how I wish that the police had questioned the BF/F!

 

[rosemadderlake]

I remembered her meeting BF/F through a friend in the band at Wagner.

MMQC - you have been great in answering sooooo many questions!! Here are a few more..........

Do you remember the circumstances of her engagement? At the time, was she over the moon or apprehensive about it? -Or become decisive or indecisive? --I wonder because when I was 22 years old, I had an amazing engagement, and ring, that I was totally apprehensive about, and never married the man because we had the most passionate, completely tumultuous, relationship ever… -And I gave the ring back. --I also wonder about Sylvia’s state of mind the evening of her disappearance.

Since the BF/F went to NYU, I imagine he knew New York City well and there must have been dates and /or parties in the city? Did Sylvia talk about a group of friends or family in the city? Was SL or BF/F in a band outside of school? -Or enjoy supporting other friends playing music? Go dancing?

--In thinking of Sylvia and flashing back to my youth in the 70's I find it is not so easy - each year was different, life was full of energy, the times, new people, and my family in a crisis mode, me leaving home. It was packed with events, new experiences, and big emotions and decisions.

So, I wonder about Sylvia’s state of mind that night, and do you have sense as to why Sylvia would have been listed as depressed in the police report?

 

[epiphany]

Anything is possible. I was not inside her head nor she in mine. Best friends do tend to keep somethings to themselves. Don't forget we were both from very traditional families. Experimenting with a beer was about as far as either one of us would go. I would have probably rathered get arrested for something and put in jail rather than go home and face the music at home, so to speak. Our families were good at the guilt trip type of stuff.

BBM

Yes, very strict, that's why I asked about what she confided in you prior to her disappearance...secrets, covering for each other, etc...like sisters might for each other.

For example, did Sylvia ever cover for you re you & your future husband-to-be? I know you stated that your Father would not let you leave past 10 PM even on a Saturday night and even though at least 21 yo:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Originally Posted by MMQC:
No I did not go out that evening. Can't remember why. Group dates did not happen. We might have all gone to the beach or to a concert or something like that. Never really double dated. My BF/F did not like SL's BF/F.

Thanks, MMQC. I wasn't thinking so much about double dates, or group dates, but SI being small enough in those days to run into each other in public on dates, or to meet up at say the end of dates in the same place -- not together, but like a public hangout.

Re the part BBM, why did your BF/F not like SL's BF/F? Did he know SL's BF/F from something outside SL's relationship with him? Mutual acquaintances?Or did he meet SL's BF/F through your friendship with SL? Did you initially double date with bad results? Did the two BF/Fs ever have words? Just trying to get a better fix on how others saw and reacted to SL's BF/F. We don't really know much about him -- except that he went to NYU, was a private music teacher, and played drums in your acquaintance's brother's band.

Bumping up (bringing post fwd as a reminder).

 

[epiphany]

Anything is possible. I was not inside her head nor she in mine. Best friends do tend to keep somethings to themselves. Don't forget we were both from very traditional families. Experimenting with a beer was about as far as either one of us would go. I would have probably rathered get arrested for something and put in jail rather than go home and face the music at home, so to speak. Our families were good at the guilt trip type of stuff.

BBM

Would it be fair to say even though you could confide in Sylvia's Mother (elopement), she could not?

How would you describe her relationship with her Mother?

 

[MMQC]

MMQC - you have been great in answering sooooo many questions!! Here are a few more..........

Do you remember the circumstances of her engagement? At the time, was she over the moon or apprehensive about it? -Or become decisive or indecisive? --I wonder because when I was 22 years old, I had an amazing engagement, and ring, that I was totally apprehensive about, and never married the man because we had the most passionate, completely tumultuous, relationship ever… -And I gave the ring back. --I also wonder about Sylvia’s state of mind the evening of her disappearance.

Since the BF/F went to NYU, I imagine he knew New York City well and there must have been dates and /or parties in the city? Did Sylvia talk about a group of friends or family in the city? Was SL or BF/F in a band outside of school? -Or enjoy supporting other friends playing music? Go dancing?

--In thinking of Sylvia and flashing back to my youth in the 70's I find it is not so easy - each year was different, life was full of energy, the times, new people, and my family in a crisis mode, me leaving home. It was packed with events, new experiences, and big emotions and decisions.

So, I wonder about Sylvia’s state of mind that night, and do you have sense as to why Sylvia would have been listed as depressed in the police report?

Over the moon as you described it.

She was not in any music related groups outside of school. He however was in the SI orchestra. Performed at free outdoor concerts during the summers. The summer of 1973 I remember going with her to the outdoor concerts because BF/F was playing in them. At the time he was only BF not BF/F. That is when my BF/F, just BF at the time met him. Thought SL's BF looked down his nose at him as he was not a college man. Below his standards so to speak. That is when my BF decided not to double date. Outdoor concerts yes as there were lots of people around so not direct contact for a prolonged period of time. I remember bringing SL to those concerts. She would sit and swoon. If swoon is the right word?

As for the depressed remark on the PR....I think the police put it there or prompted EL to, or they drew that conclusion by certain remarks EL made?

As for the "City Life" I don't recall any off the Island Dating.

 

[MMQC]

BBM

Would it be fair to say even though you could confide in Sylvia's Mother (elopement), she could not?

How would you describe her relationship with her Mother?

I guess because of the TIMES back then who really talked to parents back then. Kept them in the dark mostly. I confided in her mother as the only adult in the know about my elopment. WHY? I guess because she was my only link with SL an extension of a friendship that was no more? I really can't say. Maybe that I trusted her or wanted her to feel connected with me as I did not have a good relationship with my mother? Who knows? So many years have past to really disect why?

 

[MMQC]

BBM

Yes, very strict, that's why I asked about what she confided in you prior to her disappearance...secrets, covering for each other, etc...like sisters might for each other.

For example, did Sylvia ever cover for you re you & your future husband-to-be? I know you stated that your Father would not let you leave past 10 PM even on a Saturday night and even though at least 21 yo:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975

Super strict parents. I had to pass inspection when leaving the house. Nothing too low, nothing too short, too sheer etc. I might as well have dressed as a nun.

As for covering for each other. Don't think ever. If it ever came up sure we both would have covered for each other. We were too afraid to get off the straight and narrow path.

 

[Odyssey]

MMQC,

I read somewhere earlier in this thread something about an abortion, although I'm not sure I saw (or can't remember) where that came from... if you don't want to comment on that, I completely understand, but... do you know if Sylvia and BF/F were sexually active, or if she wanted to wait until they were married?

I was just thinking (as some have mentioned previously) that maybe the movie was just an explanation to her parents, but she probably would have told you the truth... she did tell you that she was going to the movies, and that wasn't just something you were told by her parents, right? Or that maybe she wanted to wait, but he didn't... thus, a fight...

 

[rosemadderlake]

Over the moon as you described it.

She was not in any music related groups outside of school. He however was in the SI orchestra. Performed at free outdoor concerts during the summers. The summer of 1973 I remember going with her to the outdoor concerts because BF/F was playing in them. At the time he was only BF not BF/F. That is when my BF/F, just BF at the time met him. Thought SL's BF looked down his nose at him as he was not a college man. Below his standards so to speak. That is when my BF decided not to double date. Outdoor concerts yes as there were lots of people around so not direct contact for a prolonged period of time. I remember bringing SL to those concerts. She would sit and swoon. If swoon is the right word?

As for the depressed remark on the PR....I think the police put it there or prompted EL to, or they drew that conclusion by certain remarks EL made?

As for the "City Life" I don't recall any off the Island Dating.

bbm: MMQC --In your opinion, do you think she was she depressed when she disappeared?

-Was her BF/F at the pool party? I don't recall if it was mentioned that he was there? Did she talk about her feelings that night, afterwards anytime, in the days following? I am wondering more if she was angry or upset enough to confide her feelings rather than the specifics...

From your recollection of your BF's perception of being "looked down" on, with an air of superiority from Sylvia's BF/F, did her BF/F ever display this quality when relating to Sylvia's family? If he was the superior type, was she ever conflicted about it?

 

[Dushi]

It is absolutely wonderful to understand your friendship
I have had and still have those connections in my life
I also get the connection between Sylvias mom and yourself
Without her(Syliva) in both of your lives.. she was a common denominator

Tell me, MMQC , when all was well, were you close with S's mom?
I sort of think that she was a great loving woman who could not grasp anything final happening to her daughter
I get the feeling that she decided that Sylvia left and may come back

I find that heartbreaking

A personal question, if I may..

In all of these years, before this was brought up..

What were your thoughts?
Did you think she left because she wanted to escape?
Or did your thoughts run to foul play/

 

[Dushi]

I do get a strong feeling based on what has been posted, that perhaps LE was led to believe that Sylvia left because she wanted to

I wonder about this. we have pondered about why LE would not investigate

 

[Odyssey]

I do get a strong feeling based on what has been posted, that perhaps LE was led to believe that Sylvia left because she wanted to

I wonder about this. we have pondered about why LE would not investigate

Unfortunately I think, especially in the 70's, that was the conclusion LE generally came to unless there was some evidence of a crime.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Re: the lack of investigation: so the thinking may have been perhaps Sylvia's parents thought she may have run away at the time. Maybe the "depressed" is because of the fight at the pool party, and Sylvia and her father not talking? "No publicity". Police thought hysterical girl in another fight with BF and runs off. "Will not handle"? Something like that?

I wonder though about later on when MMQC's Dad got the ADA to get LE to follow up? I wonder if they did any investigation, then?

 

[Jmoose]

bbm: MMQC -

From your recollection of your BF's perception of being "looked down" on, with an air of superiority from Sylvia's BF/F, did her BF/F ever display this quality when relating to Sylvia's family? If he was the superior type, was she ever conflicted about it?

I was wondering the same thing re: BF/F and Sylvia's family. It doesn't sound like there was much of a connection between the families, and that seems odd to me. I had asked way back in the thread if her parents liked him and if his parents liked her-his family didn't seem too put out when Sylvia disappeared, and I am having some trouble with that

 

[Saracen]

Re: the lack of investigation: so the thinking may have been perhaps Sylvia's parents thought she may have run away at the time. Maybe the "depressed" is because of the fight at the pool party, and Sylvia and her father not talking? "No publicity". Police thought hysterical girl in another fight with BF and runs off. "Will not handle"? Something like that?

I wonder though about later on when MMQC's Dad got the ADA to get LE to follow up? I wonder if they did any investigation, then?

BBM, the whole investigation or non-investigation thing bugs me, would not the desk officer notice the panic or fretting of a mother (who knows her daughter)better than a LE officer, when she was reporting her missing?
and who the hell makes the decision on weather to investigate or not?..

 

[Jmoose]

BBM, the whole investigation or non-investigation thing bugs me, would not the desk officer notice the panic or fretting of a mother (who knows her daughter)better than a LE officer, when she was reporting her missing?
and who the hell makes the decision on weather to investigate or not?..

I wonder if, in those days, they were just so busy and let this one fall between the cracks because they thought that Sylvia was a runaway who would come back in her own good time? I am trying to give the police the benefit of the doubt (even if they might not have earned it here). Maybe the parents had a stoic demeanor when they came in to file the report, and possibly even related to the police that they all weren't speaking when she disappeared. I can't otherwise understand how they dropped the ball here. It's been three years since MMQC has been contacted, and I wonder if they've worked on it in that time?

 

[Saracen]

I wonder if, in those days, they were just so busy and let this one fall between the cracks because they thought that Sylvia was a runaway who would come back in her own good time? I am trying to give the police the benefit of the doubt (even if they might not have earned it here). Maybe the parents had a stoic demeanor when they came in to file the report, and possibly even related to the police that they all weren't speaking when she disappeared. I can't otherwise understand how they dropped the ball here. It's been three years since MMQC has been contacted, and I wonder if they've worked on it in that time?

You say dropped the ball, does that mean the same as they swept it under the carpet?

 

[MMQC]

Unfortunately I think, especially in the 70's, that was the conclusion LE generally came to unless there was some evidence of a crime.

NO EVIDENCE OF A CRIME, HOW COULD THEY TELL? THEY NEVER EVEN INVESTIGATED AS THEY SHOULD HAVE!!!! Evidence? If there was any was long gone by the time LE asked the first question. If you ask me the PR was pretty non-descript. No names? Why was the BF/F name not on the report?
Why, why, why!

I went to ADA with my dad as a despirate measure. The least LE could have done was contact the parents and question HIM and ME right away. I spent the next few days calling old classmates and telling them about SL. That perhaps the more people in the KNOW was better. The more EYES out there the better. I'm so frustrated about LE never following up. I'm sure if it was a LE person who had a daughter missing they would look under every rock and turn over every stone to find them. RIGHT? Why did the BF/F never look for SL or go back to the FAMILY? He had a some belongings at their house. Never went back for them to my knowledge. NO CONTACT AT ALL. What happened to the "LOVE".

I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. I'm going to try to calm down now.