Max Shacknai EMS Report

[MyBelle]

I agree, Maxie's medical records hold very important facts in what really happened to Becky.
If you wanted the public to believe your son was assaulted and it was not an accident, why would you release photographs and not the actual medical records to support your case? Photographs have more of a shock value and in my opinion that is why they were released in this case. Many conclusions can be drawn by looking at a photograph, however supported by actual documentation builds a much stronger case. Dina's expert reports were opinions based on what they reviewed, why not let the public review the same material? Again, would it not help support her cause? In my opinion, not releasing Maxie's medical files and a certain website used as supporting material in an experts report both create reasonable doubt that what has been released is likely not the whole story.

Don't get me wrong, I truly understand Dina wanting to protect her sons privacy. What I don't understand is the choice in privacy. In my opinion, Maxie's hospital photos would be what I would protect the most, not his medical files. The images are so very sad and personal. Maybe I do understand that the choice depends on your motive. Which also follows to reason why Dina chose to release the EMS report. In my opinion, her choices are strictly motive driven leaving no room for objectivity.

BBM. I also agree. In fact, I think the "suicide" determination in RZ's death came after LE reviewed those medical records and learned the doctors had asked for a CPS investigation. LE made no mention of the CPS investigation or EMS report about Max at their news conference about RZ's death. I think it is unusual for a caregiver to commit suicide after a genuine accident involving a small child and it was wise of LE to conduct a thorough homicide investigation.

I applaud Dina's release of the information. What motive does she need other than seeking justice for her dead child? What else do you believe is in Max's records that would change the ME's ruling about RZ's death?

While his mother probably can't publicly release his medical records intact, she certainly can reveal important facts and has done so.

JMO

 

[*Lash*]

BBM. I also agree. In fact, I think the "suicide" determination in RZ's death came after LE reviewed those medical records and learned the doctors had asked for a CPS investigation. LE made no mention of the CPS investigation or EMS report about Max at their news conference about RZ's death. I think it is unusual for a caregiver to commit suicide after a genuine accident involving a small child and it was wise of LE to conduct a thorough homicide investigation.

I applaud Dina's release of the information. What motive does she need other than seeking justice for her dead child? What else do you believe is in Max's records that would change the ME's ruling about RZ's death?

While his mother probably can't publicly release his medical records intact, she certainly can reveal important facts and has done so.

JMO

BBM - I totally agree it is unusual for a caregiver to commit suicide after a genuine accident involving a small child. This is one of many reasons I don't believe Becky committed suicide.

Since Dina believes Maxie was murdered, she should pursue justice. Most if not all mothers would. In my opinion, it is the choices Dina has made in her pursuit that has me questioning her motive. As with Becky, Maxie's COD has not been changed, still both families believe their loved one was murdered. The Zahau family has never named a single person they feel may be responsible, but Dina has chosen to publicly accuse a minor of murder. In my opinion, Dina understands what this could do to the mental health of a minor, how it could damage a growing teenage girl. Dina has a psych major and has worked with teenage girls. Yet even with her psych experience Dina still chose to accuse XZ publicly with absolutely NO proof XZ murdered Maxie. None. I hope XZ is not being bullied at school because of Dina's accusations. In my opinion, Dina was well aware what this could do to XZ and this makes me question her motives. Why name anyone at this time, what purpose did it serve?

 

[MyBelle]

BBM - I totally agree it is unusual for a caregiver to commit suicide after a genuine accident involving a small child. This is one of many reasons I don't believe Becky committed suicide.

Since Dina believes Maxie was murdered, she should pursue justice. Most if not all mothers would. In my opinion, it is the choices Dina has made in her pursuit that has me questioning her motive. As with Becky, Maxie's COD has not been changed, still both families believe their loved one was murdered. The Zahau family has never named a single person they feel may be responsible, but Dina has chosen to publicly accuse a minor of murder. In my opinion, Dina understands what this could do to the mental health of a minor, how it could damage a growing teenage girl. Dina has a psych major and has worked with teenage girls. Yet even with her psych experience Dina still chose to accuse XZ publicly with absolutely NO proof XZ murdered Maxie. None. I hope XZ is not being bullied at school because of Dina's accusations. In my opinion, Dina was well aware what this could do to XZ and this makes me question her motives. Why name anyone at this time, what purpose did it serve?

BBM. The dramatic difference is that RZ's death received a full homicide investigation and Max's death did not. The hospital, one medical expert and an engineer have all expressed professional opinions that do not support the accident theory presented by LE who never investigated it as anything other than an accident.

LE's conclusion of suicide did tie it to Max's injuries. My sympathy to the RZ's family that they can't accept the determination but such denial isn't at all unusual.

The expert opinions do provide a solid basis for Dina's accusations. Anyone present at the time of Max's injuries should be interrogated by homicide detectives. Age of the person shouldn't be a factor. The only people present at that time according to police reports were RZ and XZ.

Dina and Jonah were investigated--and cleared--by LE in RZ's death. Max's death deserves the same scrutiny. I don't share your opinion that someone should get a pass just because that person is a teenager.

JMO

 

[K_Z]

While his mother probably can't publicly release his medical records intact, she certainly can reveal important facts and has done so.

JMO

Snipped above for relevance.

Bringing over this Q & A from the verified lawyer thread. Below is AZlawyer's response (post #102 in the thread).

Originally Posted by K_Z View Post
Regarding "elective" release of information contained in Max's medical records by his parents:

1. Can Dina request Max's complete records (which she presumably did for her experts to review) and release or publicly post anything herself, or must she have some kind of permission from Jonah, since they had joint custody?

2. Was Dina required to have Jonah's permission before posting and releasing Max's EMS record on her maxshacknai.com website? (I am very doubtful that she even had a conversation with him about it. It appears they only communicate thru lawyers at this point, if at all.)

3. Was Dina required to have Jonah's permission to request and provide Max's medical records to her experts Bove and Melinek?

AZlawyer responds:

1 - 3. Unless there is some court order to the contrary, Dina should be able to obtain and release Max's medical records without Jonah's permission.

I interpret that to mean Dina is free to post or release publicly, or provide to to whomever she chooses, any portion of, or the entire record.

She continues to choose to make wild accusations, but will not support her statements using evidence available in the medical record. It would be a very simple thing to release the sections that discuss what she has alleged:

1. That doctors and other medical staff believed Max was suffocated first, and then assaulted and "torpedoed" over the balcony railing, and

2. That doctors and other medical staff believed Rebecca was responsible for this, along with her minor sister.

3. Dr. Peterson's comments about Max and his injuries-- release all comments in their entirety, including all comments about the decision making process leading up to the request for CPS investigation.

4. Comments in the record from any doctors or staff related to child abuse investigation.

5. Comments about the mechanism of injury, extent of injuries, and prognosis, beginning with Coronado Sharp ER, and all of Rady documentation related to Max's injuries, testing, and prognosis.

6. Any nurses notes or other documents that confirm Dina's claims to be at the bedside during the night of Becky's death. LE has confirmed that Dina is not seen on any security footage in the building, in the ICU, or entering/ exiting the building. Only her phone has been alibi'd to be "in the vicinity". It should be a very, very simple thing to demonstrate that she was there from the patient care notes. Why on earth wouldn't she want to do that, given all of the speculation on her whereabouts, and the eyewitness accounts of her at Spreckles?

At this point, I cannot believe much (most) of what Dina claims. I am interested in reading what OTHER PROFESSIONALS documented that might in some way substantiate what Dina has alleged. Until and unless she provides some proof to back up her accusations, and substantiate what she has said that medical professionals told her, I cannot even begin to believe anything she alleges. If she wants people to believe her, in particular to believe Max was murdered by ANYONE, she bears the burden of providing the proof that is convincing, IMO. The record either supports Dina's claims, or it doesn't. I'm leaning toward thinking it doesn't, since it would be so very easy to show that it DOES. AND, if there is a court order preventing her from releasing any portion of the record, it would be very easy to demonstrate THAT, also.

I understand that medical record review can be confusing and challenging to people that are not health care professionals. There are many professionals who would review her son's records for free, as a service to a grieving mother who believes her son was murdered. A panel of impartial experts (not hired by Dina) could easily be assembled to sift thru the record and interpret what is in there that either supports, or does not support, her claims.

Until she provides some proof from Max's records that corroborates what she has been claiming, I cannot give any consideration to her words as true.
She has my sympathy for the tragic and untimely loss of her only child in a horrible accident, and I will consider her obsessive and vindictive comments toward a dead woman and her minor sister to be due to untreated grief and untreated serious psychological issues. IMO, she needs intensive counseling and mental health care, not the enablers she has surrounded herself with.

 

[Inparadise]

Snipped above for relevance.

Bringing over this Q & A from the verified lawyer thread. Below is AZlawyer's response (post #102 in the thread).





I interpret that to mean Dina is free to post or release publicly, or provide to to whomever she chooses, any portion of, or the entire record.

She continues to choose to make wild accusations, but will not support her statements using evidence available in the medical record. It would be a very simple thing to release the sections that discuss what she has alleged:

1. That doctors and other medical staff believed Max was suffocated first, and then assaulted and "torpedoed" over the balcony railing, and

2. That doctors and other medical staff believed Rebecca was responsible for this, along with her minor sister.

3. Dr. Peterson's comments about Max and his injuries-- release all comments in their entirety, including all comments about the decision making process leading up to the request for CPS investigation.

4. Comments in the record from any doctors or staff related to child abuse investigation.

5. Comments about the mechanism of injury, extent of injuries, and prognosis, beginning with Coronado Sharp ER, and all of Rady documentation related to Max's injuries, testing, and prognosis.

6. Any nurses notes or other documents that confirm Dina's claims to be at the bedside during the night of Becky's death. LE has confirmed that Dina is not seen on any security footage in the building, in the ICU, or entering/ exiting the building. Only her phone has been alibi'd to be "in the vicinity". It should be a very, very simple thing to demonstrate that she was there from the patient care notes. Why on earth wouldn't she want to do that, given all of the speculation on her whereabouts, and the eyewitness accounts of her at Spreckles?

At this point, I cannot believe much (most) of what Dina claims. I am interested in reading what OTHER PROFESSIONALS documented that might in some way substantiate what Dina has alleged. Until and unless she provides some proof to back up her accusations, and substantiate what she has said that medical professionals told her, I cannot even begin to believe anything she alleges. If she wants people to believe her, in particular to believe Max was murdered by ANYONE, she bears the burden of providing the proof that is convincing, IMO. The record either supports Dina's claims, or it doesn't. I'm leaning toward thinking it doesn't, since it would be so very easy to show that it DOES. AND, if there is a court order preventing her from releasing any portion of the record, it would be very easy to demonstrate THAT, also.

I understand that medical record review can be confusing and challenging to people that are not health care professionals. There are many professionals who would review her son's records for free, as a service to a grieving mother who believes her son was murdered. A panel of impartial experts (not hired by Dina) could easily be assembled to sift thru the record and interpret what is in there that either supports, or does not support, her claims.

Until she provides some proof from Max's records that corroborates what she has been claiming, I cannot give any consideration to her words as true.
She has my sympathy for the tragic and untimely loss of her only child in a horrible accident, and I will consider her obsessive and vindictive comments toward a dead woman and her minor sister to be due to untreated grief and untreated serious psychological issues. IMO, she needs intensive counseling and mental health care, not the enablers she has surrounded herself with.

KZ, perhaps if you were to reach out to DS to review the records?

 

[K_Z]

KZ, perhaps if you were to reach out to DS to review the records?

LOL, thanks for the vote of confidence, IP. While I have experience as an expert, and have experience reviewing charts and making recommendations, I'm pretty sure DS wouldn't want me to review her son's records. If she posts them publicly, I'd be happy to review and comment.

But I will put up a little free advice. If I were coordinating a panel of experts to review these records, I would recommend including, at a minimum:

1. Pediatric neurosurgeon
2. Pediatric radiologist with extensive neuro imaging expertise
3. Pediatric neurologist
4. Pediatric trauma surgeon/ Trauma ER doc
5. Nurse expert experienced with pediatric neuro and trauma, who also is familiar with the electronic nursing charting system in use by the staff in 2011
6. Pediatric inpatient social worker
7. IT specialist familiar with the electronic medical record system in use at Rady in 2011
8. UNOS specialist to review the process used to determine and document brain death and initiate organ donation procedures
9. Medical ethicist

 

[MyBelle]

Snipped above for relevance.

Bringing over this Q & A from the verified lawyer thread. Below is AZlawyer's response (post #102 in the thread).





I interpret that to mean Dina is free to post or release publicly, or provide to to whomever she chooses, any portion of, or the entire record.

She continues to choose to make wild accusations, but will not support her statements using evidence available in the medical record. It would be a very simple thing to release the sections that discuss what she has alleged:

1. That doctors and other medical staff believed Max was suffocated first, and then assaulted and "torpedoed" over the balcony railing, and

2. That doctors and other medical staff believed Rebecca was responsible for this, along with her minor sister.

3. Dr. Peterson's comments about Max and his injuries-- release all comments in their entirety, including all comments about the decision making process leading up to the request for CPS investigation.

4. Comments in the record from any doctors or staff related to child abuse investigation.

5. Comments about the mechanism of injury, extent of injuries, and prognosis, beginning with Coronado Sharp ER, and all of Rady documentation related to Max's injuries, testing, and prognosis.

6. Any nurses notes or other documents that confirm Dina's claims to be at the bedside during the night of Becky's death. LE has confirmed that Dina is not seen on any security footage in the building, in the ICU, or entering/ exiting the building. Only her phone has been alibi'd to be "in the vicinity". It should be a very, very simple thing to demonstrate that she was there from the patient care notes. Why on earth wouldn't she want to do that, given all of the speculation on her whereabouts, and the eyewitness accounts of her at Spreckles?

At this point, I cannot believe much (most) of what Dina claims. I am interested in reading what OTHER PROFESSIONALS documented that might in some way substantiate what Dina has alleged. Until and unless she provides some proof to back up her accusations, and substantiate what she has said that medical professionals told her, I cannot even begin to believe anything she alleges. If she wants people to believe her, in particular to believe Max was murdered by ANYONE, she bears the burden of providing the proof that is convincing, IMO. The record either supports Dina's claims, or it doesn't. I'm leaning toward thinking it doesn't, since it would be so very easy to show that it DOES. AND, if there is a court order preventing her from releasing any portion of the record, it would be very easy to demonstrate THAT, also.

I understand that medical record review can be confusing and challenging to people that are not health care professionals. There are many professionals who would review her son's records for free, as a service to a grieving mother who believes her son was murdered. A panel of impartial experts (not hired by Dina) could easily be assembled to sift thru the record and interpret what is in there that either supports, or does not support, her claims.

Until she provides some proof from Max's records that corroborates what she has been claiming, I cannot give any consideration to her words as true.
She has my sympathy for the tragic and untimely loss of her only child in a horrible accident, and I will consider her obsessive and vindictive comments toward a dead woman and her minor sister to be due to untreated grief and untreated serious psychological issues. IMO, she needs intensive counseling and mental health care, not the enablers she has surrounded herself with.

BBM. I agree with the bolded statement. But I disagree with your insinuation that any medical professional is capable of expert analysis of medical records. An opinion of a non-court approved expert really has no value to me.

The medical records HAVE been released and analyzed by medical experts in that field and their expert opinions made by public. Not all members of the public are qualified to make any analysis whatsoever, which is why court cases allow testimony only from expert witnesses, rather than laymen.

Dina has based her opinion on the analysis made by expert pathologists and so have I. I find Dina's experts to be quite credible and so far, no other pathologists have publicly volunteered to provide a free analysis. If they have, please provide a link.

Dina has released important facts contained in the records such as Rady's request to LE to begin a child abuse investigation. An independent pathogist has examined the records and publicly supports Rady's contention. In view of these facts, I am not surprised that no other trained pathogists have publicly volunteered to spend hours trying to prove Rady doctors were wrong.

JMO

 

[K_Z]

If the one and only medical expert I had paid thousands of dollars to review my child's case and write a report, was disregarded and widely mocked (especially by other respected experts), then I'd probably be actively looking for a whole group of experts to take a closer look at my child's case. Especially if I was convinced my child had been murdered, and not suffered a tragic accident.

Probably I would be focused on finding a whole big panel of highly experienced experts, like the ones I listed in my post above, and not much interested in planning and attending cocktail parties/ benefits/ fundraisers. But that's just me. I don't think I would put all my hopes on ONE person to the exclusion of many other experts. Particularly when it comes to medical record review. The entire field of medicine and health care practices using consensus models-- I'd be looking for consensus and congruity among experts.

Speaking of consensus, 3 pathologists (Melinek, Wecht, and Lucas) have all agreed on cause of death. More pathologists could weigh in, but I think it's quite clear that cause of death is established. So I'd be looking for opinions and input from practicing experts, such as those I listed above. A pedes neurosurgeon and radiolologist with pedes neuroimaging expertise would have a lot of very good insight on what happened.

Clearly the one and only medical expert hired by Dina (Melinek) was not persuasive to authorities in her report.

The other expert, Bove (biomechanical engineer) wrote a very thoughtful, professional report, and did not make the leaps of logic that Melinek did.

Bove also did not rely upon People magazine, Wikipedia, or a racist and hate filled anonymous blog to come to his opinions. He is far and away the more credible of the 2 experts DS paid for. Bove was quite narrowly constrained in the work product he was contracted to study and report. It would be interesting to have another biomechanical expert/s with more freedom to examine multiple scenarios study the accident, and see what that individual/s would conclude. It is also important to remember that what can be imagined as remotely POSSIBLE is not usually PROBABLE.

I think a panel of experts would have the most credible insight on what happened to Max. That's what I would pursue if it was my child, and I had a lot of questions I was obsessing over.

But I do understand that a panel of multidisciplinary experts could be very threatening and unsettling to someone who has already come to conclusions that they are unwilling to re-examine or abandon. Because a panel might not reach the same conclusions.

 

[Gilgamesh]

If the one and only medical expert I had paid thousands of dollars to review my child's case and write a report, was disregarded and widely mocked (especially by other respected experts), then I'd probably be actively looking for a whole group of experts to take a closer look at my child's case. Especially if I was convinced my child had been murdered, and not suffered a tragic accident.

Probably I would be focused on finding a whole big panel of highly experienced experts, like the ones I listed in my post above, and not much interested in planning and attending cocktail parties/ benefits/ fundraisers. But that's just me. I don't think I would put all my hopes on ONE person to the exclusion of many other experts. Particularly when it comes to medical record review. The entire field of medicine and health care practices using consensus models-- I'd be looking for consensus and congruity among experts.

Speaking of consensus, 3 pathologists (Melinek, Wecht, and Lucas) have all agreed on cause of death. More pathologists could weigh in, but I think it's quite clear that cause of death is established. So I'd be looking for opinions and input from practicing experts, such as those I listed above. A pedes neurosurgeon and radiolologist with pedes neuroimaging expertise would have a lot of very good insight on what happened.

Clearly the one and only medical expert hired by Dina (Melinek) was not persuasive to authorities in her report.

The other expert, Bove (biomechanical engineer) wrote a very thoughtful, professional report, and did not make the leaps of logic that Melinek did.

Bove also did not rely upon People magazine, Wikipedia, or a racist and hate filled anonymous blog to come to his opinions. He is far and away the more credible of the 2 experts DS paid for. Bove was quite narrowly constrained in the work product he was contracted to study and report. It would be interesting to have another biomechanical expert/s with more freedom to examine multiple scenarios study the accident, and see what that individual/s would conclude. It is also important to remember that what can be imagined as remotely POSSIBLE is not usually PROBABLE.

I think a panel of experts would have the most credible insight on what happened to Max. That's what I would pursue if it was my child, and I had a lot of questions I was obsessing over.

But I do understand that a panel of multidisciplinary experts could be very threatening and unsettling to someone who has already come to conclusions that they are unwilling to re-examine or abandon. Because a panel might not reach the same conclusions.

And might I add, KZ, that you would have arrived at the truth. You would have gained enormous respect as being a mother who was driven to find out the truth about her child, one who did everything in her power to find justice for her little boy. Whatever the truth ended up being, you would be respected for your tenacity and admired for your perseverance through grief and adversity to get to the TRUTH.

 

[MyBelle]

If the one and only medical expert I had paid thousands of dollars to review my child's case and write a report, was disregarded and widely mocked (especially by other respected experts), then I'd probably be actively looking for a whole group of experts to take a closer look at my child's case. Especially if I was convinced my child had been murdered, and not suffered a tragic accident.

~snipped respectfully for length~

Speaking of consensus, 3 pathologists (Melinek, Wecht, and Lucas) have all agreed on cause of death. More pathologists could weigh in, but I think it's quite clear that cause of death is established.

~again respectfully snipped~~

BBM, first part: I totally agree with your first statement. Fortunately, in Max's case, no respected expert disregarded or mocked Dina's experts' reports. If you have a link that states otherwise, please post it.

BBM, second point: If you have a link to support your claim Dr. Wecht analzyed Max's death and concluded a cause/manner, please provide it. I'm pretty sure he contained his comments to RZ's death.

I really think if the AG has opened an investigation into Max's death as a homicide it would not be public knowledge at this point in time.

JMO

 

[*Lash*]

I was very, very disturbed by Dina posting Maxie's ICU pics. I strongly feel that the manner in which Dina chose to post/ release those pictures was reckless and highly exploitative. I disagree that any conclusions can be drawn by looking at pics taken in an icu. We don't have any information, context, or references in which to interpret what we "think" we see in those pictures. Or what Dina says she wants us to see in the pictures, other than a little boy heartbreakingly broken. The general public cannot, and should not (IMO) draw any conclusions from those pics, except that he was being treated in an ICU for his injuries, and he looked awful.

People who have suffered massive trauma to the head and face and survive extended cardiac arrest and transport to be treated in an ICU look absolutely awful-- often their own family members can't recognize them. There is always bruising, edema, third spacing of tissue fluids, and many other medical and physiological sequelae that distort their appearance. Max sustained a tremendous blunt force fall trauma to the head, extended cardiac arrest, 2 EMS transports, and huge amounts of therapy (fluids and tubes, trauma inserting devices, skin tears from fluid filled fragile skin, bruising and edema from tubes and therapies, multiple physiological derangements, etc. I don't think any conclusions about his injuries can be drawn from the horrible and very sad pics Dina chose to post. Those pictures were exploitative, IMO. Rather than provide any kind of realistic or proper context for the pics, Dina simply recklessly posted them in a public forum, and provided them to media. And then provided her own interpretation and commentary. Posting those pictures was, IMO, not an act of love by a grieving mother.

KZ, I agree. I don't think any conclusions should be or can be drawn from pictures taken in the ICU. I meant to say 'inaccurate' conclusions based on emotion, not science. Which I happen to believe was Dina's purpose.

Pictures tug at our heart and in my opinion that is why Dina released Maxie's photos. To gain public sympathy. Dina deserves sympathy for the loss of her only child. Maxie deserves sympathy. But at what cost? I can't even imagine the heartache Maxie's siblings, family and friends must have felt viewing the last pictures of Max. In my opinion, there is a time and place to release these sad horrible pictures, in a court of law and only to experts examining the case. The public release of these photos can only serve one purpose and in my opinion that is exploitation. I don't want to believe Dina intended to exploit Max. In my opinion, Dina's pursuit of justice has turned into an agenda full of tunnel vision and fogged judgement.

 

[*Lash*]

BBM. The dramatic difference is that RZ's death received a full homicide investigation and Max's death did not. The hospital, one medical expert and an engineer have all expressed professional opinions that do not support the accident theory presented by LE who never investigated it as anything other than an accident.

LE's conclusion of suicide did tie it to Max's injuries. My sympathy to the RZ's family that they can't accept the determination but such denial isn't at all unusual.

The expert opinions do provide a solid basis for Dina's accusations. Anyone present at the time of Max's injuries should be interrogated by homicide detectives. Age of the person shouldn't be a factor. The only people present at that time according to police reports were RZ and XZ.

Dina and Jonah were investigated--and cleared--by LE in RZ's death. Max's death deserves the same scrutiny. I don't share your opinion that someone should get a pass just because that person is a teenager.

JMO

Respectfully, I don't understand how you can believe Becky or Maxie received proper investigations. Both investigations are full of flaws and half truths. Both investigations were misrepresented by SDSO at the press conference. Both cases should be reopened.

Maxie's investigation was never publicly labeled a homicide investigation. However, probable cause was presented to a judge to search for items in mansion that could cause suffocation. Wouldn't the suffocation of a child be considered a homicide? Doctors were questioned and so was XZ. In my opinion, there was a homicide investigation but for whatever reason LE chose not to use this wording. Was it thorough? Obviously not because none of us believe the recreation put forth by LE.

How much was Jonah investigated in regards to Maxie's death? Dina herself stated she didn't know for sure who all was in the house at the time. Her words, Dina is going only by what LE has told her, the same agency she believes did not do a thorough investigation in her sons death. Seems a little hypocritical. I don't know who was home at the time of Maxie's accident, but I believe more people than just Becky and XZ should be examined if the case is ever reopened.

I don't have the opinion that someone should get a pass just because that person is a teenager. My opinion is a teenager should not be publicly named and accused of murder with absolutely NO proof. It is distasteful and cruel. Which again opens the door to question Dina's judgement, her purpose and her mental well being.

 

[MyBelle]

Respectfully, I don't understand how you can believe Becky or Maxie received proper investigations. Both investigations are full of flaws and half truths. Both investigations were misrepresented by SDSO at the press conference. Both cases should be reopened.

Maxie's investigation was never publicly labeled a homicide investigation. However, probable cause was presented to a judge to search for items in mansion that could cause suffocation. Wouldn't the suffocation of a child be considered a homicide? Doctors were questioned and so was XZ. In my opinion, there was a homicide investigation but for whatever reason LE chose not to use this wording. Was it thorough? Obviously not because none of us believe the recreation put forth by LE.

How much was Jonah investigated in regards to Maxie's death? Dina herself stated she didn't know for sure who all was in the house at the time. Her words, Dina is going only by what LE has told her, the same agency she believes did not do a thorough investigation in her sons death. Seems a little hypocritical. I don't know who was home at the time of Maxie's accident, but I believe more people than just Becky and XZ should be examined if the case is ever reopened.

I don't have the opinion that someone should get a pass just because that person is a teenager. My opinion is a teenager should not be publicly named and accused of murder with absolutely NO proof. It is distasteful and cruel. Which again opens the door to question Dina's judgement, her purpose and her mental well being.

BBM. I have never said I believe Maxie received a proper homicide investigation. I believe he received NO homicide investigation. The topic of this thread is Max's EMS Report. Dina did not author the report.

A complete homicide investigation involves a great deal more than a search warrant and I do not believe RZ or her sister were interviewed as part of a homicide investigation into Max's death. Of course a complete homicide investigation would include interviews of all of those who were near him. I never suggested otherwise.

JMO

JMO

 

[time]

BBM, first part: I totally agree with your first statement. Fortunately, in Max's case, no respected expert disregarded or mocked Dina's experts' reports. If you have a link that states otherwise, please post it.

BBM, second point: If you have a link to support your claim Dr. Wecht analzyed Max's death and concluded a cause/manner, please provide it. I'm pretty sure he contained his comments to RZ's death.

I really think if the AG has opened an investigation into Max's death as a homicide it would not be public knowledge at this point in time.

JMO

Wecht most certainly strongly disagreed with Melinek on Dr. Phil (he may have even said she was irresponsible) and he pointed out her inconsistencies as well as the fact that in this type of fall/accident there would be multiple and various injuries. I believe you are playing with words by inserting the the 'respected' which is your opinion.

Click on the video with Wecht's picture
http://drphil.com/shows/show/1874#

Additionally, Dr. Bove never agreed with Melinek on her conclusions that someone else was involved and he NEVER analyzed all the possible accident scenarios - so Melinek and Dina have been very misleading in putting out their accusations and reports using Bove in the way they did. We also see Dr. Bove did NOT appear with Dina on these media appearances.

 

[K_Z]

Imagine how powerfully persuasive it could be for Dina to have many opinions from a multidisciplinary panel of medical experts who have reviewed her son's medical records, and all agree that the evidence of Max's injuries were most likely a result of homicidal violence, and not a tragic accident? Wow! I cannot fathom why Dina would not be interested in pursuing that, or why she didn't pursue that long ago. That could be enormously helpful to her on so many levels beyond lobbying to have Max's case reopened-- especially helpful rehabilitating her public image, and deflecting criticism from her actions and continued accusations.

IMO, having that would justify another coordinated effort to present Max's case to multiple authorities to request his case be reopened with a homicide investigation.

I just don't see what Dina could have to lose if she tried this. It's a win-win situation for her, unless the records don't support what she has been alleging about homicide. But she has stated so many times that it was the DOCTORS and medical staff that came to the homicide conclusions, not her--so why not prove that?

Then law enforcement (not medical experts) can investigate who might be a suspect in a potential homicide. Medical experts typically analyze records and comment on injuries, illnesses, and treatments. Medical experts typically don't name "who" they think may have committed assault or murder. I believe Judy Melinek strayed very, very far from her role as a medical expert when she "named names" in the report she produced for Dina. IMO, that was very inappropriate. If that report were ever entered as evidence in a civil or criminal case, her credibility would be shredded by opposing attorneys, imo. Whether or not she has been previously certified as a "court approved" expert. And Judy Melinek has been chastised by a judge and had her testimony thrown out in the past, due to "inappropriate leaps of logic" in her opinions. That is "kinda" significant.

And, BTW, being "certified" as a court expert does not involve a ceremony or initiation, lol! There is nothing "magical" about being certified as an expert witness. There is no "secret handshake", or membership dues, or certificate of achievement to hang up on your "I love me" wall. Each case requires that EACH time an expert testifies, they must be affirmed as an expert. Which means that a given expert's expertise has to be established for each case. More cases isn't always better. I think an expert who is practicing actively, and not necessarily looking for expert witness $work$, can actually be MORE credible in court than someone who is actively advertising themselves as an opinion for $hire$. Especially if that person who is not advertising for expert witness consultation has an extensive AND relevant CV. (Meaning, relevant to their claimed area of expertise, and relevant to the facts of the case.)

 

[MyBelle]

Wecht most certainly strongly disagreed with Melinek on Dr. Phil (he may have even said she was irresponsible) and he pointed out her inconsistencies as well as the fact that in this type of fall/accident there would be multiple and various injuries. I believe you are playing with words by inserting the the 'respected' which is your opinion.

Click on the video with Wecht's picture
http://drphil.com/shows/show/1874#

Additionally, Dr. Bove never agreed with Melinek on her conclusions that someone else was involved and he NEVER analyzed all the possible accident scenarios - so Melinek and Dina have been very misleading in putting out their accusations and reports using Bove in the way they did. We also see Dr. Bove did NOT appear with Dina on these media appearances.

I clearly state that I express my opinion. Your accusation that I'm somehow "playing with words" has no basis in fact. I don't find Dr. Wecht or Dr. Phil credible medical experts. Dr. Wecht's reputation is his own making. He did not have access to Max's medical records so for him to even try to disagree with Dr. Melinek really doesn't help Dr. Wecht's already tarnished reputation. In fact, I find it terribly pathetic on his part if he did so. It does seem that as soon as he learned the hospital requested a child abuse investigation into Max's death, Dr. Wecht has wisely fallen silent.

Why would Dr. Bove offer his opinion on anything medically related? He isn't an expert pathologist.

Of course all Dr. Bove analyzed was the scenario presented by police. The police analysis of Max's injuries was NOT done by someone with Dr. Bove's credentials so it would be new and very important information for the Attorney General to know when considering a request to open a homicide investigation into Max's death. I held the opinion the LE theory was impossible long before Dr. Bove weighed in and I appreciate his expertise.

Dr. Bove most likely didn't appear with Dina in her media appearances because it really wasn't necessary. The media seems to have found his report to be credible without his presence. Media and their public audience are usually much more sympathetic to victims of child abuse rather than to their suspected abusers.

JMO

 

[time]

I won't carry on in this thread, but the Summary of Reports is clearly misleading. I think that is the first evidence that could be used in a civil case against Dina in conjunction with what she and Melinek have claimed in the media.

I am still very sure that Max's death is the result of an accident and probably many scenarios would be more than acceptable in explaining it. However, Dina did not care about the truth, she set out to try and prove her theory no matter if it is the least logical theory abounding.

 

[*Lash*]

Snipped for context -

I clearly state that I express my opinion. Your accusation that I'm somehow "playing with words" has no basis in fact. I don't find Dr. Wecht or Dr. Phil credible medical experts. Dr. Wecht's reputation is his own making. He did not have access to Max's medical records so for him to even try to disagree with Dr. Melinek really doesn't help Dr. Wecht's already tarnished reputation. In fact, I find it terribly pathetic on his part if he did so. It does seem that as soon as he learned the hospital requested a child abuse investigation into Max's death, Dr. Wecht has wisely fallen silent.

JMO

BBM - To clarify the facts as we know them, our knowledge of the social worker at Rady's and a pending Protective Service Report first surfaced when search warrant 41290 was released. Det. Adkins indicates in the SW he was requested to respond to a pending report to be filed by the hospital.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that Dina was the first to release the CPS info. This is false. The SW first released the information back in September of 2011, before Nina or Dina had ever talked to the media and before the Dr. Phil shows. Dr. Wecht did not learn of the CPS report on the Dr. Phil show. Dr. Wecht would have knowledge of the CPS report when he reviewed Becky's case in October of 2011. In my opinion, it is wise to assume the Dr. Phil show is not where Dr. Wecht first learned of the pending CPS report. Have we heard from Dr. Melinek since the Dr. Phil show or has she become silent too?

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

 

[*Lash*]

BBM. I have never said I believe Maxie received a proper homicide investigation. I believe he received NO homicide investigation. The topic of this thread is Max's EMS Report. Dina did not author the report.

A complete homicide investigation involves a great deal more than a search warrant and I do not believe RZ or her sister were interviewed as part of a homicide investigation into Max's death. Of course a complete homicide investigation would include interviews of all of those who were near him. I never suggested otherwise.

JMO

JMO

I did not state anywhere what you do or do not believe. I believe you misinterpreted my post. I fully understand you do not believe Maxie received a proper homicide investigation.

I cannot attest to whether or not Becky spoke with Det. Adkins, however Dina made it clear that XZ was questioned by LE. Dr. Melinek even reviewed audio on XZ's questioning, as she indicated this in her report.

 

[K_Z]

Snipped for context -



BBM - To clarify the facts as we know them, our knowledge of the social worker at Rady's and a pending Protective Service Report first surfaced when search warrant 41290 was released. Det. Adkins indicates in the SW he was requested to respond to a pending report to be filed by the hospital.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that Dina was the first to release the CPS info. This is false. The SW first released the information back in September of 2011, before Nina or Dina had ever talked to the media and before the Dr. Phil shows. Dr. Wecht did not learn of the CPS report on the Dr. Phil show. Dr. Wecht would have knowledge of the CPS report when he reviewed Becky's case in October of 2011. In my opinion, it is wise to assume the Dr. Phil show is not where Dr. Wecht first learned of the pending CPS report. Have we heard from Dr. Melinek since the Dr. Phil show or has she become silent too?

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41290.pdf

Thank you for this post, Lash-- quite correct about the SW. And IIRC, in an interview, Dina herself also stated that it was requested by LE that Dina not be notified about the pending CPS report. That can be interpreted a number of ways. It's possible the staff was compassionate and didn't want to add to her emotional burden at the time. It's also possible that she was also to be included in the investigation, and they did not want to inform her at that time. It's also possible that they were concerned about how Dina might react to that information, given the history between her and Jonah. We don't know yet why LE requested that she not be informed.

We all had some discussion on that a while back. It's possible (IMO, very likely) that as part of a comprehensive evaluation of the safety of the child's environment in BOTH homes, that Dina's parenting behaviors, and her home environment was also going to be investigated. (Particularly in light of the scooter in the stairwell at the time of the fall, rambunctious play reported, etc.) Dina's inability to be reached by police for many hours on the day of Max's accident was concerning to police and medical staff, especially since her BF eventually answered the door to police. She also had some lengthy absences from the hospital during the first 48 hours of Max's admission. IMO, all of that points to Dina being included in the CPS investigation of the safety and supervision of the child in both homes. Just because a CPS investigation is requested, it does not mean a child is being abused or beaten. The physical environment could be unsafe. Parenting decisions could be unsafe for the child (such as allowing scooter play inside and around stairs.) And the investigation would have, IMO, also looked at the relationship between Max's divorced parents, and both of their new significant others, as it related to Max and his care and supervision. CPS is not likely to evaluate only one of the parents in a case like this, IMO.

IMO, the CPS investigation was likely much more about evaluating the child's supervision and safety in BOTH of his homes, rather than "abuse".