IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[AbbeyR]

And lastly, and importantly, is the coke find a reported fact or a rumor?

This was my question too -- Where did it come from? Even if it's true though, I'm not sure what the relevance of this would be. I could imagine that if someone went into her apartment to tamper with evidence, it might be to get rid of drugs. I can't imagine a scenario where planting drugs would make sense for anyone.

ETA: Of course, if it belonged to someone in the apartment and was found in a police search, saying it belonged to Lauren or that it must have been planted there might seem like a better option than claiming it.

 

[akh]

If JW is responsible for her disappearance and if the coke was real and planted:

It would make sense as part of a plan to create a story that LS was a drug user and plant the seeds that she must've OD'ed while in the company of the 5N guys (which if JW had learned she was there and stalked her, waiting her out, or else she showed up on his doorstep and told where she'd been) 5N then would be setup for the fall. They would be convenient for the plan AND he'd probably like the revenge angle it would afford him anyway.

I'd give this some weight because it sure seems like this is the story he gave his parents.

Of course he could be telling the truth about her drug use. HT seemed to back up what his parents have now said with her comment (about going too far this time), but maybe she was the first one he fed the planted story to? Give the story that she was a drug abuser he'd been protecting to a few others... maybe directly or indirectly to a reporter... get a few tips called in to LE... get a few comments on some forums...

I realize this goes into the WAG and speculation category but it isn't that far-fetched to plant the coke and look to create a drug OD story since it's not likely she never did any drugs. So he could give it legs rather easily. And especially if drug use and being messed up (and hanging around males other than himself) is what caused him to snap in the first place. And this all would still fit nicely with those of us who think JW's initial reaction was all wrong and rushed the next morning/afternoon.

 

[bessie]

Some say it was five.
Some say it was ten.
Some say it was just one man.
Who set up Lauren Spierer
And made her disappear?
Will a lie detector
tell the truth
and set them free
of the taint of the conspiracy?

Not necessarily. Willingness to take a LE administered polygraph would carry more weight than the actual results, IMO.

 

[Ros]

Wouldn't that be a short list of suspects to have planted anything in her apartment? And wouldn't JW have to be at the top of that list? Who would've had opportunity to plant something without their presence sending up redflags and/or creating more of a conspiracy angle? Sure a roommate could've done it but that now connects them as part of a conspiracy to coverup a crime. I can't see the 5N gang showing up at SW and planting anything.

And was the coke actually found in her room or with her stuff or was it simply found in the apartment and nobody else claimed it? And lastly, and importantly, is the coke find a reported fact or a rumor?

If it was her's you ask why she didn't take it to the party- Maybe she didn't want to share with several people. Maybe she feared losing it (no good place to carry/conceal it). And maybe retrieving the coke is why CR and LS were coming to her apartment (AFAIK it's never been publicly established why they came there in the first place... we can speculate of course... but then they both did leave after the altercation without (as far as we know) accomplishing anything at SW).

EDIT: If they were heading back to retrieve coke it would seemingly validate claims that she wasn't done partying as MB allegedly claimed. Which would then open up the possibility she left JR's not necessarily intending to head home in the first place.

FWIW, I think it iis unusual for a regular cocaine user to have a stash. Coke is so afflicting and the high is so short-lived, that the user cannot resist using it up quickly.

 

[Ixchel13]

I agree. I was just putting it out there as a way that JW might have a connection to the night's events, without having to have him lurking around Bloomington or have other people, like ZO & Co. contacting him about the altercation and then again, he'd still probably have to be lurking outside of 5N, or LS having to leave 5N and make it to JW's. I don't think it's highly likely either though.

However, even if that were the case and it was investigated, I'm not sure that we (the public) would be privy to that.

Yes and I think people need to understand how easy it would be to walk over to JR's from JW's. less than a 5 min. walk, all this stuff happened 3-5 min from each other. from Kilroy's to SW, maybe 2-3 min. from SW to 10th and College, 3 min., 10th and College to JR's, maybe 2 min., JRs to JWs, maybe 5 min. JRs to House Bar, 2 min.

The only camera on the corner of 11th and College is pointing directly southeast at Amethyst House, and Lauren supposedly turned southwest, the camera does not point at the corner she supposedly turned.

 

[Ixchel13]

Some of Lauren's girlfriends believe that bag of coke was planted in her room as part of a drug OD cover up. After all, they knew her very well and they knew nothing about this behavior.
And, if it was hers? Why didn't she take it to the party?
In August of 1011, Carl Saltzman told me himself that it was suspect that someone had entered Lauren's room to tamper with or plant evidence. Just wondering?

Someone was there at their apt. at SW watching the game w. Lauren and her roommates. This was the last person Lauren/JR tried to call. I think it was about the phone. CS says the last time Lauren used it was at SW before she left for Kilroys. if someone else had her phone, maybe this is what the Spierers know that we don't know, someone used/checked her phone. IMO, Lauren knew this person had her phone, and was trying to get it before this person gave it to JW.
When you think about it, JW and his roomies have the same excuse as CR--went to bed, stayed asleep during the whole last episode. The only one of
all these people who admits to being awake is JR. So are we to believe out of all these partying people, only Lauren and JR are awake? So fishy.

 

[AbbeyR]

Someone was there at their apt. at SW watching the game w. Lauren and her roommates. This was the last person Lauren/JR tried to call.

They were watching the game at another apartment on the same floor, not at Lauren's.

 

[akh]

FWIW, I think it iis unusual for a regular cocaine user to have a stash. Coke is so afflicting and the high is so short-lived, that the user cannot resist using it up quickly.

I hate speculating about the coke too much because I'm not even sure it's confirmed as really being in her apartment, let alone with her things. But I've known people who could/would keep a stash of coke. True, it might be all gone once they start using it but they were able to keep it around for a few days. It's not like they couldn't resist it just being around them. Maybe they had it for the weekend or for some upcoming party... or when a certain friend or friends were going to visit. Or bought it ahead for a night they planned to go out to clubs or whatever.

Of course if we assume it's real and it was planted I can think of little reason except to further the idea that she was a regular user of drugs.

But if it is true, and if it was her's, I don't think it's necessarily odd she'd have a stash of coke for the weekend that she'd left in the apartment. Especially if she hadn't started using it that night.

And maybe LS and CR were on their way back to get it... so there's that...

 

[BCityBird]

Far too much focus on the phone here. Drunk girl leaves her phone at the bar? No surprise there. Go to any bar and you will find a stash of left behind cell phones.

The phone was left at Kilroys, this has been confirmed. No one took her phone.

 

[VeryVeritas]

This was my question too -- Where did it come from? Even if it's true though, I'm not sure what the relevance of this would be. I could imagine that if someone went into her apartment to tamper with evidence, it might be to get rid of drugs. I can't imagine a scenario where planting drugs would make sense for anyone.

ETA: Of course, if it belonged to someone in the apartment and was found in a police search, saying it belonged to Lauren or that it must have been planted there might seem like a better option than claiming it.

yeah... and where it was found could have told whose it was if it wasn't planted. If it was planted (unlikely) then who and for what reason?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Would he also know that by going this way, no video image of him would exist? I wonder if these kids would make that connection?

JW had lost contact with LS but WE DO NOT KNOW AT WHAT TIME... LE Does. But there was no evidence to connect him with anyone after the early morning hours that evening when he says he fell asleep. So, without any warning why would he get up and take a stealthy path over to 5N and wait for LS to suddenly appear? In order for such a scenario to make sense... someone would need to tip him off on exactly where she was and exactly when she was leaving. AND they would have to know in advance of when she would leave so he could have time to get over there. IF LE had any such evidence, JW would be in custody.

Now, if the 4:15 AM call were to JW... but he didn't answer, what would that mean?

 

[VeryVeritas]

After I saw all of the newest links to these latest articles and then read all the responses here to the interview with JW's parents I had to just flat refuse to give them any of my attention by reading anything they had to say about Lauren on this sad day. HOWEVER now that it's 15 past midnight I'm ready to give these heartless twits my full and undivided attention.
I've just finished reading the articles quoting NW and AW and I am livid. Mostly about this one that I actually haven't seen posted here (but I'm sure everyone has already seen it anyway)
http://www.lohud.com/article/201306...elatives-call-Lauren-Spierer-s-parents-liars-

I'm completely baffled at how these two callous, disrespectful and altogether unkind parents of JW have the nerve to say all of this when JW's mug shot is every bit as available to the world as Laurens is. Are they truly attempting to make people believe that because their son spent 3 years with Lauren, and in their words, she was the love of his life, that enabling -by secretly 'taking care of' - her to abuse drugs and alcohol with full knowledge of her medical condition, that this would in anyway at all reflect on JW in a positive light and make him look like a some how better or more innocent person?!? On the contrary! This only makes JW look 1) to have very poor judgement 2) like a liar 3) and/or very very stupid 4) spineless 5) to have a severe lacking of character 6) to be the complete and utter opposite of a loving, caring, protective and chivalrous boyfriend. 7)like a child rather than the responsible adult he should be at this point in his life. Probably not what they were going for, but certainly what they've got now.

This sort of thing is exactly what I've talked about before in regards to all these boys and how they appear to have never been held responsible for their bad behaviors.

And I mean really, A and NW can't possibly be so stupid to think that anyone will buy this bs about 'not trusting the BPD to administer a polygraph'! To quote AW from the above linked article, “I don’t think they’re very adept at anything except giving kids drinking tickets,” *nice, how he tries to excuse the publicly known bad behavior of his son right there isn't it* Nadine Wolff said. “I don’t trust them, period.”
Really? SO?? Then I wonder what is preventing JW and his very protective parents from following David Rohns lead by taking a FBI administered polygraph in NYC?


"He said Rohn met with the Spierers’ private investigators for more than two hours and “extensively” answered all of their questions and that he passed a polygraph examination administered by the FBI in New York City."
From: http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/st...o-in-the-lauren-spierer-case-then-and-now.sto

Perhaps someone that JW and family WILL communicate with should suggest the idea.

It seems to me that this overreaction from the W's comes as a result of CS pushing for Poly's and including JW in the list. The W's don't want JW to risk revealing anything incriminating (even if it might be that he was a drug dealer/user himself or some other such shocking revelation). Thing is... that if JW did cooperate and take the FBI poly and was cleared... this would really put a fire under 5N (or vice versa)

I have a feeling JW would take such a poly, but his parents will not allow it.
If he cared about LS at all and wasn't involved in her demise, then it most certainly would be the right thing to do.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Maybe this has been discussed before. In the picture of LS leaving SW she appears to be holding a white jacket. Does anyone know if the cameras at Kilroy's or at SW with CR show her with the white jacket? If not, maybe she left it at JR's and her phone was in the jacket. Someone at JR's found it and took it to Kilroy's. This would explain to us how she could leave Kilroy's without her phone. Don't think the jacket has been found. This could also explain how JR knew LS did not have her phone and stated she mistook his ipod for a phone.

Interesting idea... What I find even more interesting is how JR knew exactly that LS only had 2 items in her possession: 1) a fake ID and 2) her SW keycard. How would he know that this is all that was in her possession? These are items that likely would have been in a pocket, else they would have gone the way of the rest of her belongings (Shoes and phone - however they wound up at Kilroy's, and wallet with keys over in the gravel lot area where she went down nose first) I find it peculiar that the keycard and ID were not in that wallet... and if they were in her hands why not drop it with the rest? Along the same lines as your plausible idea, could not the ID card and key card been poached the same way? It's amazing to me that JR would admit this, even as I think he spun a tale. It's perplexing to me that he would note those items. Because to me, it's rather suspicious that he notes those 2 items. Another thought I had was that CR had in fact taken possession of these items(how did they get into SW, was that caught on video? If CR swiped the card.... ) and they they were eventually passed on to JR, maybe by MB.

 

[akh]

JW had lost contact with LS but WE DO NOT KNOW AT WHAT TIME... LE Does. But there was no evidence to connect him with anyone after the early morning hours that evening when he says he fell asleep. So, without any warning why would he get up and take a stealthy path over to 5N and wait for LS to suddenly appear?

We have no earthly way of knowing what JW knew that morning and when. He could've been home sleeping. He could've been walking or driving the streets and saw LS. Or maybe he was out looking for her. Maybe he saw her and CR leave SW? Assuming there's not a phone call telling him what she was doing and who she was with, it's not out of the realm of possibility someone could've went to his place and told him face to face. Maybe he put two and two together and stalked her to 5N and waited to confront her when she left.

No, we don't have any evidence of any of that... but then again we don't have much evidence of anything at all. As for what LE has... we don't know much about that either. We have a sense of a few things like we know of some video, but they've been vague as to what it actually shows. What we do know is whatever LE has it's not enough for them to feel comfortable charging anyone at this time.

If the PI's, and now the Spierers, are so certain that JW had nothing to do with her disappearance, or if his alibi is solid, then why worry about the LD test at all for him or anything else from him?

As much as the 5N guys have the timing to look guilty, JW is the one with a motive (jealousy, girlfriend hanging out with other guys...) that doesn't involve random speculation.

 

[imkeylime]

It seems to me that this overreaction from the W's comes as a result of CS pushing for Poly's and including JW in the list. The W's don't want JW to risk revealing anything incriminating (even if it might be that he was a drug dealer/user himself or some other such shocking revelation). Thing is... that if JW did cooperate and take the FBI poly and was cleared... this would really put a fire under 5N (or vice versa)

I have a feeling JW would take such a poly, but his parents will not allow it.
If he cared about LS at all and wasn't involved in her demise, then it most certainly would be the right thing to do.

I agree with you ... maybe JW contributed indirectly (via an illegal substance) to LS' disappearance. Re: his parents not allowing an LE poly: He's got to be nearly 23 now. He could take the poly if he felt inclined. Maybe his parents control the purse strings, which gives them leverage?

The article states he's been in therapy. Grief itself could be why ... grief mixed with stress ... or grief mixed with guilt? That's an unsettling combo. Maybe the W's overreaction stems from their fear that JW will crack and actually take that LE poly if he's not left alone.

Re: the drugs. I'd like to know where (who) the Klonopin (alleged?) traces back to. At my daughter's school, there's a lot of Adderall abuse. The local news just did a show on it. Some of it comes from ... shock ... kids who have an Rx but don't like taking it. So they sell it. Maybe the Klonopin (again, alleged) came from a major distributor. But if it came from a friend, that friend probably feels guilty about now.

A round-about question: I wonder if JW was ever in therapy before. There's nothing wrong with that, of course. But it would be interesting to know ...

 

[Jacobite]

Guess I'll go ahead and be the black sheep in a flock on a witch hunt because I disagree. That's only because I've seen the guilty go on the attack so many other times, in other cases.
If Jesse is innocent? His family should publicly apologize and he should take the polygraph with the FBI ASAP. Failure to do so may result in being POI number one forever.

 

[Ros]

Interesting idea... What I find even more interesting is how JR knew exactly that LS only had 2 items in her possession: 1) a fake ID and 2) her SW keycard. How would he know that this is all that was in her possession? These are items that likely would have been in a pocket, else they would have gone the way of the rest of her belongings (Shoes and phone - however they wound up at Kilroy's, and wallet with keys over in the gravel lot area where she went down nose first) I find it peculiar that the keycard and ID were not in that wallet... and if they were in her hands why not drop it with the rest? Along the same lines as your plausible idea, could not the ID card and key card been poached the same way? It's amazing to me that JR would admit this, even as I think he spun a tale. It's perplexing to me that he would note those items. Because to me, it's rather suspicious that he notes those 2 items. Another thought I had was that CR had in fact taken possession of these items(how did they get into SW, was that caught on video? If CR swiped the card.... ) and they they were eventually passed on to JR, maybe by MB.

FWIW women's clothing does not always have pockets. Often the pockets are too shallow to hold things securely. Therefore women sometimes use their bras as a more secure location for small items.

 

[LongTallTexan]

I have a really hard time with a couple of drunks and MB pulling off hiding a body. I think it would be a very difficult decision to make let alone, the execution and apparent success. CR seems most involved, but has 2 people covering/involved if he's involved....if I'm MB or JR, I'm unware of what CR has done and do NOT want to get involved in hiding a body.

Related, but OT, at the time, none of them expected the outcome, whether it be that she would pass on, or concern for cameras, etc.

Continued from above....If I'm MB, I'm stuck in the middle, between the mess that CR engages me in and JR. Allegedly, he's sober and working....why get involved.

Then there is JR, again...why be the last person? If LS left MB/CRs apt on her own, then JR doesn't have to claim any story, make calls, etc. But if MB brings her over/calls him over, why volunteer to be the last person. I can't buy the conspiracy, hiding a body is too serious for these guys at 4:00 in the morning and 2 have been partying....and, if I'm a house guest, no way I'm getting involved. And no one has been able to shoot a hole in their alibis, witnesses or stories.... I just don't see it.

Fake ID and the Jacket: it would make sense if she had the jacket on a Kilroys and the at SW with CR, that she kept her Fake ID separate from the real one, and for some reason had her key and Fake ID in her pocket....may still be there today. JR knowing this could add merit to his story...he didn't claim that she had anything else that we learned 'later' that she lost. It does add up.

Another thought....IIRC, JW went to HTs class to get a key to access LS room to check on her because he could not find her? Why didn't he just ask HT if LS was home in bed? Had HT not been at her apt all morning and this was the first time he caught up with her and he wanted to check again to see if she had made it home? Wouldn't HT have known this? Why did JW go to confront 5N...who knew where she ended up that night and who told JW? If she was a partier like NW and JW claim, why was this time different than any other (HT states, "she took it far this time"), but why did they think that the next morning and report her missing.

I have always been suspect of JW. It is clear to me that something started at Indy, and the unfinished business between CR and LS picked up that night. I would venture to say that CR had JR call LS/DR to come over on his behalf, hoping to hook up with her, and I have no reason to believe that LS wasn't interested as well, as she opted not to meet up with JW, but when the other offer comes from JR, she leaves at 12:30, and opts NOT to communicate with the rest of the world on her cell phone where/what she was doing. She goes to Kilroys with CR, leaves Kilroys with CR and once home, just feet from her apt, opts to leave again with CR. I believe JW was aware of some of her whereabouts and actions that night. Someone (the recipient of the 2nd call) from the SW party prior to LS/DR leaving, knows what went down, hence the name not being released.

CS and RS....I respect the hell out them, and how they've handled themselves. I can honestly say I couldn't do it...even if I just suspected them, I would have been kicking doors down and confronting....moreso at the beginning to get answers to find my daughter....and yes, with total disregard of the legal consequenses it meant for me. I, like many parents, would sacrific my well being for even just the hope of my daughter. IMO...ONLY, I feel CS/RS, PIs, and LE/FBI, have a good idea what happened and who did it, just not where she and are building a VERY strong case to prosecute who's responsible to the fullest!

 

[elmorejames]

JW had lost contact with LS but WE DO NOT KNOW AT WHAT TIME... LE Does. But there was no evidence to connect him with anyone after the early morning hours that evening when he says he fell asleep. So, without any warning why would he get up and take a stealthy path over to 5N and wait for LS to suddenly appear? In order for such a scenario to make sense... someone would need to tip him off on exactly where she was and exactly when she was leaving. AND they would have to know in advance of when she would leave so he could have time to get over there. IF LE had any such evidence, JW would be in custody.

Now, if the 4:15 AM call were to JW... but he didn't answer, what would that mean?

I mean if he did step out to find her, chances are he brought his phone. With a warrant from LE they should easily be able to track his movements that evening to see whether or not he was telling the truth. Typically in crimes of passion people don't think rationally, I doubt if he went out looking for her he would leave his cell at home.

 

[Ixchel13]

Far too much focus on the phone here. Drunk girl leaves her phone at the bar? No surprise there. Go to any bar and you will find a stash of left behind cell phones.

The phone was left at Kilroys, this has been confirmed. No one took her phone.

actually, the phone was FOUND at Kilroy's. We don't know she left it there. or if anyone brought it back and left it there, very easy to do; nor do we know when the phone was first noticed. If the employee who found it said, "When I was opening the place, I found the phone and shoes neatly together near the volleyball court, ' or something like that, then maybe. IMO, phone and shoes
are important. If a Kilroy's employee was involved, if the bartender witness was from Kilroy's, you know, the one who saw her hit her head and has a very vivid picture of how high and drunk she supposedly was, then this may indicate that the witness was actually involved in what LS and CR were doing at 10th and College. Everyone assumes this witness was just happening by, but the case may be that she wasn't a super-forthcoming witness, and only being a witness because she otherwise would be in trouble!
If the witness wasn't super-forthcoming, it could be that since she was implicated as being there at 10th and College with CR and LS, it could look very badly on Kilroy's for serving Lauren before her disappearance. Maybe knowing their employee was involved somehow and that they served Lauren with a fake ID prompted them to close for two months to remodel. Obviously I wouldn't expect them to admit this and they'll prolly say it was all planned, but conveniently this made witness recollections and employee discussion of the case come to a screeching halt. Sorry, all this to ask, Was the bartender witness an employee of Kilroy's?
Was this witness involved somehow? She said she doubled back around.Supposedly to check on Lauren's safety. But never did anything to help.