George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[Karmady]

That is one way to view things and I cant disagree with your reasoning.

If some sort of arm bar hold was used by GZ, I wonder if it would even show up in an autopsie as an injury. Probably not is my guess unless it resulted in a broken arm or something, so there probably is no way to know if some sort of arm bending hold was being used by GZ. There would be no way to prove that unless TM had a broken arm result out of it.

a bouncer type hold would have been a really good way to subdue an attacker. But if you had such hold with an eyewitness known to you and police on the way (that you called) you wouldn't shoot the person. You'd hold him. The eyewitness says trayvon was on top and hasn't waivered about that. There's no dispute that george called the cops and knew they were on their way. There's also no dispute that george knew there was an eyewitness since the witness spoke to him/them.

 

[ElleElle]

Question?

There is none of GZ blood on the sidewalk?

 

[ncgramma]

Reading discussions about whether forensics or political pressures were the reason charges were finally brought got me wondering too. So after a bit of looking around, I came up with this timeline. Everyone will no doubt come to their own conclusions. Interesting though ...

March 15, 2012
State Attorney's Offices overwhelmed by emails demanding justice for slain teen
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/state-attorneys-offices-overwhelmed-emails-demandi/nLTdJ/

March 19, 2012
White House secretary Carney gets questioned about Trayvon Martin
White House press secretary Jay Carney received a question regarding Trayvon Martin during a briefing this afternoon
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/the-grio/46786377#46786377

March 20, 2012
Justice Department, FBI to probe shooting death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin
http://tallahasseeo.com/2012/03/20/...hooting-death-of-florida-teen-trayvon-martin/

Mar 22, 2012
Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee was placed on paid administrative leave
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...rtin-shooting-sanford-police-chief-fired?lite

Mar 22, 2012
Florida governor appoints new prosecutor in Trayvon Martin case
Scott’s announcement of the task force comes two days after Scott held an impromptu meeting with about 50 black lawyers and civil rights leaders who marched to his office demanding he create such a panel to look into racial profiling.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ts-new-prosecutor-in-trayvon-martin-case?lite

Mar 23, 2012
President Obama said today the nation needs to do some "soul searching" over the shooting death of unarmed African-American teenager Trayvon Martin in Florida. "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said at the White House.
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...my-son-would-look-like-trayvon/1#.UcpE7zu1F8E

Mar 26, 2012
But Joe and Mika began Scott's interview by talking about the February 26th killing of 17-year-old Florida teen Trayvon Martin and the accused shooter George Zimmerman."There’s not enough information. No one has enough information," Scott said when asked about the case. But Scott discussed meeting with Trayvon Martin's family and expressed his regrets. "You can’t imagine losing your 17-year-old son," he told Joe and Mika.
http://mojoe.msnbc.com/_news/2012/0...von-martin-case-theres-not-enough-information

April 9, 2012
Trayvon Martin shooting: no grand jury for Zimmerman
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-shooting-no-grand-jury-zimmerman-161400993.html

April 11, 2012
Zimmerman is charged with 2nd degee murder. Corey said she decided last week to seek the charge but needed several days to make sure all details were in order. She said she had informed Martin's parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton.
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/1...rged-in-trayvon-shooting-wednesday-afternoon/

April 16, 2012
Florida Governor Rick Scott Says Charges Against Zimmerman Not Due To Outcry
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16/governor-zimmerman-charge_n_1429897.html

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

{Mod Snip} GZ called the police when he noticed something out of the ordinary. GZ had true concern for his community. I believe that TM did in fact, circle around and catch GZ at his truck and punched his azz out and pummeled him to near death

 

[Nezumi]

When I was younger (30's), I lived in Detroit, MI in a beautiful neighborhood. I was involved in Neighborhood Watch Program for our block. Each block meet and decide how to run it independent of each other. We met with the Detroit Police Officer from the 5th Precinct (five blocks from us) who was Public Relation/Community Service Officer. He taught was to how to organize, what to do and not do. The elected Captain went to workshops to carry back the information to fellow neighbors. (with hand outs etc).

The captains of the different blocks meet once a month to exchange information too (suggestion by the Police) if their is problems in their area, etc.

No one in the other blocks organized in such a way where they patrolled their block. Most did alot of prevention to make sure our homes were secure and helped each other to watch homes when each other went on vacation, etc.

Most of what was taught was observation and if behaviors were such to worry homeowners then call the police to come out and investigate.

So based on my experience as part of a wonderful organization that really does work, I have a problem with Zimmerman taking it upon himself to patrol the neighborhood. I have not heard heard that others rotated to patrol so I am going to infer he got into it with zeal to be the unofficial "cop" of the neighborhood. That is dangerous which prove it self in the long run.

JMHO

When the crime in your neighborhood is bad enough, and law enforcement support sparce enough, you organize neighborhood patrols. I see nothing wrong with this.

 

[Karmady]

IMO, some of the raised areas on GZ's head are just a part of the natural contour of his skull. I would like to see his shaved head today and have another set of photos of the same angles of his head to determine if those "lumps" are just a normal part of the anatomy of his skull. We all have rises and divets in our heads and they are not injuries. If we had a scrape on top of those rises, then it might look like swelling. I look forward to hearing the PA's assessment.

In his chasing down TM, he very likely fell into the shrubs next to the "T". It is IMO that those superficial scratches and abrasions look like they came from falling into a bush.

All along, IMO, I have believed that GZ tried to detain TM and TM elbowed him in the face in an effort to put distance between him and GZ and to run away from him. Also, there is one witness, IIRC, in one of the 911 calls that said she heard scuffling in the bushes. GZ, IMO, caught up with TM near the bushes and that too is where TM got that small cut on his left ring finger.

If there was any real MMA type fight, that can of Arizona fruit juice would not have stayed in that open pouch on the front of TM's Sweatshirt. ALL IMO, of course.

The investigator that testified today said that they were bumps on his head from injuries. If the prosecution wanted to prove otherwise, re-direct of that witness would have been the time to do so, and they didn't.

 

[ncgramma]

Question?

There is none of GZ blood on the sidewalk?

IIRC, the tech testified today that she did a visual check for blood but no tests were run for blood evidence.

 

[Apollo]

This is not true. Proof is below.

Autopsy report states that Trayvon had a 1/4' x 1/8' ABR on the ring finger of his left hand. Autopsy report also states that Trayvon had a scar that was 1 x 1/2' on the first finger of his right hand.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/120687039/trayvon-Martin-autopsy-report

The funeral director said "We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight. The hands - I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something that we would have covered up if it would have been there."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57406725/

Since bruising is caused by bleeding under the skin, is it possible that there was no bruising on his hands or knuckles because TM died so quickly after being shot---which was shortly after the physical altercation began?

 

[ElleElle]

Listen to me - GZ called the police when he noticed something out of the ordinary. GZ had true concern for his community. I believe that TM did in fact, circle around and catch GZ at his truck and punched his azz out and pummeled him to near death

GZ was not that big back then either, compared to now.

 

[Karmady]

Reading discussions about whether forensics or political pressures were the reason charges were finally brought got me wondering too. So after a bit of looking around, I came up with this timeline. Everyone will no doubt come to their own conclusions. Interesting though ...

March 15, 2012
State Attorney's Offices overwhelmed by emails demanding justice for slain teen
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/state-attorneys-offices-overwhelmed-emails-demandi/nLTdJ/

March 19, 2012
White House secretary Carney gets questioned about Trayvon Martin
White House press secretary Jay Carney received a question regarding Trayvon Martin during a briefing this afternoon
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/the-grio/46786377#46786377

March 20, 2012
Justice Department, FBI to probe shooting death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin
http://tallahasseeo.com/2012/03/20/...hooting-death-of-florida-teen-trayvon-martin/

Mar 22, 2012
Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee was placed on paid administrative leave
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...rtin-shooting-sanford-police-chief-fired?lite

Mar 22, 2012
Florida governor appoints new prosecutor in Trayvon Martin case
Scott’s announcement of the task force comes two days after Scott held an impromptu meeting with about 50 black lawyers and civil rights leaders who marched to his office demanding he create such a panel to look into racial profiling.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ts-new-prosecutor-in-trayvon-martin-case?lite

Mar 23, 2012
President Obama said today the nation needs to do some "soul searching" over the shooting death of unarmed African-American teenager Trayvon Martin in Florida. "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said at the White House.
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...my-son-would-look-like-trayvon/1#.UcpE7zu1F8E

Mar 26, 2012
But Joe and Mika began Scott's interview by talking about the February 26th killing of 17-year-old Florida teen Trayvon Martin and the accused shooter George Zimmerman."There’s not enough information. No one has enough information," Scott said when asked about the case. But Scott discussed meeting with Trayvon Martin's family and expressed his regrets. "You can’t imagine losing your 17-year-old son," he told Joe and Mika.
http://mojoe.msnbc.com/_news/2012/0...von-martin-case-theres-not-enough-information

April 9, 2012
Trayvon Martin shooting: no grand jury for Zimmerman
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-shooting-no-grand-jury-zimmerman-161400993.html

April 11, 2012
Zimmerman is charged with 2nd degee murder. Corey said she decided last week to seek the charge but needed several days to make sure all details were in order. She said she had informed Martin's parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton.
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/1...rged-in-trayvon-shooting-wednesday-afternoon/

April 16, 2012
Florida Governor Rick Scott Says Charges Against Zimmerman Not Due To Outcry
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/16/governor-zimmerman-charge_n_1429897.html

you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see how these charges came about, imo.

 

[Karmady]

IIRC, the tech testified today that she did a visual check for blood but no tests were run for blood evidence.

correct. Hours after the fact in the dark with no means other than visual

 

[iluvmua]

here is the timeline for George:

http://gzdocs.com/documents/opening_graphics/timeline.jpg

 

[polleypockets]

Listen to me - GZ called the police when he noticed something out of the ordinary. GZ had true concern for his community. I believe that TM did in fact, circle around and catch GZ at his truck and punched his azz out and pummeled him to near death

except they were not any where near the truck and only 700 feet from TM house, and george admitted he followed TM, after he agreed to wait in the truck in his statement the nest day - see video posted above - saying he was following him to get an address - after he agreed to stay in his truck and meet the police by the mail boxes

 

[kaRN]

:floorlaugh: :seeya: Nice to see you Auburn! I'm on the second "walthrough" video and he says he was looking for a street sign.... hmmm.

What he running after him?

p.s. I'm still a virgin to this case.

There are only 3 streets in the neighborhood he 'watches'. When asked by Det Serino why he didn't know the street name, GZ responded he had a bad memory and ADHD. Oh and the burglar he thought TM might be, had already been caught. I guess GZ forgot that, bad memory and all.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-27/news/os-george-zimmerman-inconsistencies-20120626_1_shooting-dispatcher-police

 

[ElleElle]

Why does GZ say in the walkthrough to the witnesses to not call the police but to help him instead?

Wouldn't he just say: "I am the police." - ?

 

[Just K]

The investigator that testified today said that they were bumps on his head from injuries. If the prosecution wanted to prove otherwise, re-direct of that witness would have been the time to do so, and they didn't.

No MS Smith did not say they were injuries. West asked if she saw this bump or that bump at the time she took the pics and she would answer, "That is correct." She saw a bump but did not go as to describe those bumps as anything including bone structure or injuries. Listen very closely to the questions and the answers. She is just saying that she acknowledges there are bumps on his head. I have watched that video two times on WFTV day 11 summary.

 

[ncgramma]

This is an interesting site. Very pro-defense, but analysis provided at the end of each day is always informative.

Here's the analysis for today:
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-day-2-analysis-of-states-witnesses//#more

 

[polleypockets]

Since bruising is caused by bleeding under the skin, is it possible that there was no bruising on his hands or knuckles because TM died so quickly after being shot---which was shortly after the physical altercation began?

but in court today they said there was 0 dna on TM hands or under his finger nails from GZ - plus imo if you are pounding a mans face and slamming hhis head in the ground you would at least scratch your hands up

 

[Apollo]

correct. Hours after the fact in the dark with no means other than visual

Yes, and it had been raining so I would think a small amount of blood would be hard to see on wet concrete---assuming it hadn't been washed away.

 

[Tricia]

Hi Everyone,

I'll be closing this thread at 12 midnight Eastern.

Thank you for posting in a mature manner. We really appreciate it.

Tricia