George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #6

[gxm]

MOM: "We don't need to see any injuries, do we?"

Serino: "No."

MOM: "And yet he had many injuries."

(My effort at transcribing.)

Wow. Just wow. MOM is owning this cross. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[Isabelle]

:moo:I agree: To me, it didn't sound like a kid. To be perfectly honest, I tried to think about what George Zimmerman would sound like if he was in fear for his life, and yelling in a panic. I'm no expert, but that's what it sounds like, to me. :twocents:

I wonder if Trayvon's mother has a visceral reaction when she hears the screams?

 

[Chelly]

The Prosecution was able to just illustrate how silly it was for GZ to act like he was trying to see a street name....given there are only three streets in the entire place. As witnessed to by LE. Puts paid to his silly claim that he knew every single resident among the 100 or so who dwelled there, given he claims he didn't know the name of one of only three streets. IMO

Yup, GZ used that lie to cover the fact that he was pursuing TM instead of backing down as instructed. GZ wanted vigilante justice.IMO

 

[JeannaT]

I think imo that she heard very little. What would have been most enlightening was the influences that surrounded her...such as state's interview with the mom in the room, audio tapes made by crump and sent to the news...purporting things untrue .like age..relationship ..IMO Ms Jeantel was not as informed as the pros tried to make her out to be....and was used

I agree, that would be an interesting side-story to this case. But IMHO, it really doesn't make a difference in the facts of this case.

I wonder what will come out when Crump is on the stand - although again, I don't think his involvement directly relates to the core of this case.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Someone claimed that GZ was not athletic, I thought it was mentioned in one of the previous threads, he had practiced MMA for about 5 months at the time of the murder.

I was not sure where that came from but even if he was studying it does not mean he mastered it or did it often. I studied yoga.. I still can't do it.

 

[gxm]

There has been previous testimony (from a state witness, no less) that it's difficult to tell which street that particular location is on.

JMO. OMO. MOO. (so I don't get in trouble)

 

[kimlynn]

The neighbors saw what appeared to be fight or assault between two men. The neighbors didn't recognize EITHER man. It was dark. They (the neighbors hearing this) obviously did NOT have weapons.

What I don't get is.....Martin was a 17 year old football player....he was no doubt VERY fast and plenty strong.

Zimmerman is a 30 year old overweight and obviously not that athletic guy.

Martin was already near his own home. If Martin had wanted to AVOID a conflict with this "creepy ___ _____" that may be a rapist he could have simply sprinted and been gone. Either back to his house or somewhere else.

If Martin had NOT wanted to confront Zimmerman I just don't see how it could have happened. There is simply no way Zimmerman could have caught up to Martin especially since Martin was aware of him.

GZ was a lot lighter in weight when this incident happened,and iir was taking mixed martial art classes three times a week.
I seem to recall that at one point Zimmerman also worked as a bouncer and they don't hire out of shape weaklings for that type of work.IMO

 

[Chelly]

MOM: "We don't need to see any injuries, do we?"

Serino: "No."

MOM: "And yet he had many injuries."

(My effort at transcribing.)

Wow. Just wow. MOM is owning this cross. JMO. OMO. MOO.

Up to now.
The discrepancies haven't come up yet.
The door will be wide open for redirect tomorrow.

 

[Karmady]

I was not sure where that came from but even if he was studying it does not mean he mastered it or did it often. I studied yoga.. I still can't do it.

I'm sure we're going to hear a lot more about the extent of George's "MMA training." jmo

 

[ncgramma]

I know that ncgramma, but many have said that this wouldn't have happened if TM hadn't "attacked" GZ. I think it wouldn't have happened if GZ knew where to keep his butt.....which was in his car. That is all personal opinion though, and my point is that it has yet to come out, IMO, whether or not that "attack" justified pulling a gun and killing another person. Until then I view TM as the victim here. MOO. :seeya:

There are so many, "it wouldn't have happened, ifs". TM made his decisions and GZ made his. So sad. One life has ended before it should have and the other life is ruined. Four parents are needlessly grieving. But both TM and GZ were within their legal rights to make those decisions. Sometimes life and all it throws at us just sucks.

 

[gxm]

Up to now.
The discrepancies haven't come up yet.

The exchange wasn't about discrepancies. MOM just drove home (with the state's witness!) that the severity of GZ's injuries is not necessary in a self defense case. The law doesn't say that you have to be seriously wounded in order to defend yourself.

JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[Karmady]

I agree, that would be an interesting side-story to this case. But IMHO, it really doesn't make a difference in the facts of this case.

I wonder what will come out when Crump is on the stand - although again, I don't think his involvement directly relates to the core of this case.

I think it's the glue the jury could use to put the pieces together when they look at the evidence and go "why are we here again?" jmo

 

[popsicle]

PW, I do the same thing, but more often in my car.
If I feel someone is following me I will meander around but NOT go to my house....will just keep driving until they go a different way. I know that sounds wacky, I doubt people are after me, but ya know how sometimes a car just seems to be going the same way as you for just a little too long?
Anyway, better safe than sorry!

Sometimes when I am driving and it just happens that the car in front of me is going the same place I am... from 95 to a major road and then into the housing development and then turning into the cul-de-sac where my house is right on the corner, the whole time I am thinking... I bet that person thinks I am following them. jmo

 

[gxm]

MOM ends today with making Serino admit he believed GZ was telling the truth. Wow and double wow. I am stunned at the mastery of MOM's cross skills.

JMO. OMO. MOO. (to keep me out of trouble)

 

[DIBSY]

Florida Law protects TM's actions to defend himself and stand his ground from an unidentified stalker with a weapon. The mere act of stalking him at night in the rain would lead a reasonable 17 year old in today's society in FLORIDA that he could be in danger.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html

He did not have to retreat from what he perceived as a threat continuing to follow him towards his family's home. He didn't. Whether or not he tried to disable/disarm/or knock out the person stalking him without any provoking physical contact is irrelevant according the the law. Seeing the weapon or reasonably fearing a person means to harm you justifies force and stand your ground.

I read that simply showing or pointing an unloaded gun in Florida carries a mandatory 3 years. I will go back and find the link if necessary.

I live in a gated community. I have five adult sons, 2 over 6'. They enter my home through the back sliding glass door, from a similar dog area such as this subdivision. IF they come during the day, the gates are open. IF they come at night, after dark they are closed and need a pin number to drive in or a pool key/gate key to come in the walk in gate, the outside is completely surrounded by very high cement walls. IF TM was walking in the subdivision he had to have a pin code or key. GZ had to know this.

IF they came over to visit after dark and walked back to my house from the front open parking spaces and my 30 year old hispanic neighbor across from me who is unfamiliar with them- stalked them from the front, as they walked in the gate, followed them down my sidewalk, and then approached them to ask them why they were in this complex.... yes, complaints are getting filed if one of my boys or husband doesn't sock the guy first. I would think instant creep. Keep in mind, in Florida and here in Cali. With gang and racial tensions, A Hispanic looking male in GZ age range doesn't exactly look safe and authoritative to TM either. IMO

GZ intiiated the course of events, by his suspicious and paranoid stalking. It is reasonable to believe he made a young boy in a unfamiliar area feel physically threatened and in danger. He approached TM on purpose with a weapon close enough to verbally communicate to him. I believe he tried to detain him when he would not do as he was told or answer questions he was asked. IMO

I keep reading he was the Neighborhood Watch Captain. Did I miss where someone appointed him as such. I thought it was determined he appointed himself and refused an offer to join LE neighborhood patrols etc. He was just a regular neighbor with no authority, no identification, no right to follow TM or shoot him. TM had every right to sock him in the face, and render him unable to continue to follow him or shoot him. He failed. Sadly.

Also, I read ( I will find the link if you make me) that he took Adderall for ADD. I am betting his dr also prescribed anti anxiety. I know my brother on Adderall was very mild, non hyper, focused, and didn't feel anything. Not happy, not sad, not anxious. That could explain his very level and matter of fact behaviors.

I am late for an appointment but just caught up and now probably behind again...

Great and insightful input, thank you very much !

Exactly, the defense and most of the press have tried to turn this case around when all along it has been Trayvon Martin who acted in self-dense. <modsnip> IMO

People keep saying, well George Zimmerman wasn't charged with stalking...which means nada since greater or fatal offenses are always the ones pursued at the end of the day, such as murder in this case. IMO:seeya:

 

[mom23gr8kids]

Okay and that's why we wait for cross I guess. The Pros. questioning of CS put me back on the fence wondering and now after cross I'm back off the fence with my previous opinion. IMOO I think GZ has told the truth (his truth) the whole time.

I think this was just a horrible tragedy that could have been avoided a million different ways but wasn't and there isn't a person at fault enough to be locked up for 30 years. I just don't see it. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Just watched Mark O 'Mara cross the detective. If I ever need a defense attorney, he is my man. He has turned so many state's witnesses into defense witnesses.

 

[ncgramma]

from what i read last night nite florida statutes, in don't think so, cuz it says that its the instigator that is guilty, but if, and imo of trayvon felt he was in eminent danger then by the statutes he was defending himself 0 so from what i understand, trayvon was allowed to defend himself and GZ can't claim not guilty and use self defense because he was the person who provoked the situation - imo

Florida Cases Section 776.041: Person Who "Initially Provoked" Incident May Not Claim Self Defense Section 776.041

I'm not able to say what TM was feeling, although if I were in the same circumstance as he found himself, I would have been very uneasy. But how I would have felt isn't relevant. I can also state that if I were GZ, I would have been terrified and felt I was in grave and imminent danger. If GZ felt that way he was within his legal rights to protect himself in any way that he could. The evidence seems pretty clear to say that GZ was unable to protect himself physically given he was obviously on the losing end of this fight. What has surprised me is how long GZ waited before using the gun. He obviously knew he had it. Ah, the human mind and reasoning is so complex even when we do have facts instead supposition to work with.

 

[PrettyWoman86]

Most children are taught if you feel in danger because of a stranger run into your home! If he was the one feeling in danger why not get to the safe place behind a door you can lock and call 911.

Sometimes, you don't let people know where you live. It's kind of like when a car is following your car, you are taught to never go in the direction of your home, you don't lead someone to your home.

 

[ncgramma]

If Trayvon did run, would GZ have followed him? IMO, most likely.

Not being psychic ... I haven't a clue what GZ would have done in that circumstance.