George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General Discussion Thread 9 (For Friday)

[tpatte021]

IMO - Damn, "He wants to HUNT fugitives"

 

[Horace Finklestein]

He wrote that he wanted to hunt fugitives. Isn't that a good thing? And can we PLEASE get TM's background in play now, since GZ's schooling was brought up?

 

[missmazzy]

I read the max for manslaughter in FL was actually 15 years. And there's no way of knowing what the judge would actually do.

Does the jury suggest a sentence in Florida if he's convicted?

Florida
Manslaughter Maximum of 15 years in prison; maximum of 30 years in prison if a firearm is used plus a mandatory minimum of 25 years

 

[sorrell skye]

Mr. Mantei says he wants to talk about "direct evidence", but then immediately brings up circumstantial evidence, if not outright hearsay evidence, IMO.

 

[Zuri]

The community GZ was dedicated to failed him miserably. The people that sat by cowering should be ashamed. imo.

Cowering might be a bit harsh. :seeya: I was just trying to put myself in these people's shoes. The fact that I would think twice before rendering assistance really bothers me. My whole career has been helping people (RN in ER) and thinking twice about physically going to someone's aid goes against my very nature. However, if it had been my child, no hesitation. No question. God help the other person. JMV

 

[popsicle]

of course he killed him....the question is...did he murder him??

 

[JeannaT]

He wrote that he wanted to hunt fugitives. Isn't that a good thing? And can we PLEASE get TM's background in play now, since GZ's schooling was brought up?

That's actually a JOB, isn't it? Rounding up bail jumpers.

That's what those people want to do - find and arrest fugitives.

Like it's a bad thing??

IMHO

 

[missmazzy]

The case was about more than that. Snopes.com

On August 17, 1995, 52-year-old Billie Jean Matay (who was once a performer on Disney's <I>Mickey Mouse Club</I> TV show) visited Disneyland with her daughter and three grandchildren. Matay claimed that when they returned to their car in the Disneyland parking lot that afternoon, they were accosted by a man with a gun who took their credit cards and $1,650 in cash before fleeing on foot. She maintained that Disneyland security officers did nothing to assist her after the hold-up but instead took her and the others to a security office, where they were held for hours against their will.

The lawsuit filed by Matay four months later alleged that Disneyland failed to provide sufficient security, that park officers held her and her family for questioning against their will, and that cast members dressed as Disney characters removed parts of their costumes in front of her grandchildren, traumatizing them by "exposing the children to the reality that the Disney characters were, in fact, make-believe."

The case finally went to trial in August 1997, where Matay admitted on the witness stand that what had happened backstage (i.e., her grandchildren's glimpsing headless characters) was unimportant. Her suit against Disney over their failure to provide adequate security was dismissed by the trial judge at the conclusion of a weeklong trial on 22 August 1997.

Thank you. I knew some of the facts, but it was a long time ago. As long as I'm not testifying in court, a bad memory is ok.

 

[roseofsharon]

I wonder if the ME will watch all the shows tonight to see the reaction to his testimony.

Also when he stated that if anyone had put evidence in a plastic bag, then would yhey would be fired immediately, I thought "that is what is going to happen to you"

JMO

It didn't sound like he would take responsibility for any errors, by his staff or himself, however, to paraphrase, he trusts his staff and does not need to supervise them. Such a hairpulling testimony!!!! :banghead:

MOO

 

[DIBSY]

I found it to be an extremely important detail as I have formed an opinion about what type of man GZ is...

Likewise, I have posted several links today to his violent past and disrespect for LE and his overall , apparently inherent , dishonesty. Can't find of a single speck of evidence that speaks to his being honest, in any situation that would speak to his not being beyond reproach.IMO

 

[William N]

Some keep talking about GZ bad behaviors before TM's death. How about the records of TM's bad behaviors? I am glad this case will go to a jury, regardless of the outcome, rather than to WS posters like all of us. This case should be judged by facts presented in court. If one WS member is going to talk about the past of GZ, let's being up the past of TM also and be fair.

The death of TM was a tragedy but none of us were there so we don't even know what happened between those two men. IMO, not much has been presented in court. That doesn't mean I know what happened. But if you want GZ to go to prison, shouldn't the prosecution have had some direct evidence? It's very very sad someone died but not knowing what really happened and judging by emotion is very scary. All MOO.

Exactly. In a way, TM has been treated as the defendant, whose past transgressions (several school suspensions, striking a bus driver, etc) cannot be mentioned.

On the other hand, GZ's college classes are supposedly relevant?

 

[Jane Jetson]

I respectfully ask...what trial are you watching? This witness, who did the autopsy, doesn't remember the autopsy, isn't answering questions and changes his opinion at the drop of a hat. The testimony wouldn't be dragging, IMO, if the witness would answer the questions.

I got the impression that BAO was acting like a nut on purpose. I'm not sure why he would do that.

Some notes on his cross examination by the defense:

First, is it final that the judge won't let the fact that the doctor said that Mr. Martin may have been influenced by the marijuana in his system? That seems like a non-legal act on her part, imo. I'm sure we haven't heard the end of that. No way the defense would let that slide...

I wonder why there was no peripheral blood available? I have no medical background, so I'm not sure what that would mean.

Just because one person in one case made a noise indicating pain after getting shot in the heart doesn't mean that someone who is shot in this manner couldn't have said "You got me." BAO is not using the scientific method if he thinks that.

BAO seriously can't establish a more exact distance of the gun to the skin than from between .4 inches to four feet? That seems awfully lackadaisical on his part, imo.

That was one strange interaction, imo. I didn't watch the prosecution speak with him - did he continue to act that way?

 

[sacrablue]

Do you think GZ knew or heard what the term "stand your ground" means before the shooting? IMO

The point is you said the State had nothing on GZ. GZ says he knew nothing about stand your ground. Well we find out he was taught all about this.
GZ lies and fits every bit of evidence to fit the circumstances given the night he murdered a teenager. Deadly force turns out to be 2 scratches on his head and a broken nose. Are you going to kill someone every time you get a nose bleed? I doubt this. IMO
Don't forget GZ was not following TM, he was just going the same direction.

 

[JeannaT]

Ahhh, "finally" is becoming one of my favorite words.

FINALLY, can we move on?

IMHO

 

[ncgramma]

Legal folks say the defense will ask for the charges to be lowered today from Second Degree Murder to Manslaughter. They will also ask to have hte case dismissed.

If I were Zimmerman I don't think I would want to ask the judge to reduce charges, I would rather go for the higher charge OR have the charges dismissed. If he is found guilty to either there will be appeals and it is less likely the jury will convict him on second degree murder.

What do others think?

IMO, you could argue either way. The lesser charge of manslaughter, IIRC, is already included. Whether the jury would view the Murder2 charge being dropped as being positive or negative for GZ is tough to predict.

Some might suggest by including M2 that this jury could be swayed to, "find GZ guilty of something" because of concern about how the public will react to a not guilty judgement. Others might suggest that the jurors might be less likely to avail themselves of that thinking process and conclude that the judge felt the state had overreached, "so spectacularly in bringing all these" charges, that she dropped M2 and they might feel more comfortable about finding him not guilty of manslaughter too.

All that aside, given the fact, IMO, that the external pressures were so successful to cause this trial to be held in the first place, I see no possibility that the judge would rule in favor of the defense.

JUST MY OPINION ... ALL MY OPINION ... NO REASONABLE PERSON WOULD CONSIDER MY OPINION AS ANYTHING BUT MY OPINION ... ETC. :seeya:

 

[LilJunebug]

This is off-topic, but CPR is performed on people with no vital signs.

Cario Pulmonary Rescusitation. It revives a heart that is no longer beating.

So before you do CPR, you check for breathing first, and if there's no breathing, you check the pulse. If you find a pulse you sweep the airway and get breath in to the person.

If you do NOT find a pulse, you begin CPR. CPR done on a person who has a pulse can actually kill them.

IMHO, and I was a trained instructor for Red Cross CPR.

Hello! This is my first post here after years of lurking, and I don't at all mean to be rude, but you are not completely correct here. The American Heart Association has made some slight, yet significant, changes to the proper procedural steps for Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation in recent years. I know this because I am currently enrolled in a Basic Life Support for Healthcare Providers course which is certified and taught by the AHA.

While it is true that CPR is generally performed on people who have no pulse, the most up-to-date and official AHA BLS for Healthcare Providers Manual (2011) states on page three that there has been "...a change in the BLS sequence of steps from A-B-C (Airway, Breathing, Chest Compressions) to C-A-B (Chest Compressions, Airway, Breathing) for adults, infants, and children." We no longer check the breathing pattern/rhythm first because it takes time, and the chest compressions are seen as being more vital in saving the life of the patient.

In addition, it is no longer recommended that emergency responders perform blind finger sweeps, as this can cause or worsen a foreign body obstruction. We are taught attempt rescue breaths twice; if attempts at ventilation fail both times, you open the mouth and visually check for any obstruction. If you see something that is easily accessible, you grab it. If not, you continue on with further chest compression.

I hope this was a helpful post!

 

[Love Never Fails]

Exactly. In a way, TM has been treated as the defendant, whose past transgressions (several school suspensions, striking a bus driver, etc) cannot be mentioned.

On the other hand, GZ's college classes are supposedly relevant?

That really concerns me. Regardless of which side you are on.

 

[mdana]

I have not read every thread on this case, but I'm curious if there has been a discussion about how George could have possibly reached his holstered gun with Trayvon sitting astraddle of him? To me this is a HUGE issue!!! We have tried this numerous times with several people and it just CAN'T BE DONE! It makes GZ's entire story of how he came to shoot Trayvon a LIE. (Before you start throwing things at me, try it yourself.) :truce:

Another thing that troubles me about the usage of the gun, is that GZ is left handed, but he shot with his right hand. Wouldn't that have made it even more difficult for him to get the gun, since it was not his dominant hand? I mean according to his testimony he was held by the mouth with one hand and held down and pinned. I think it is difficut to believe he was not able move and so dominated for the rest of the fight/scuffle, then miraculously was able to get his gun out under his jacket with Trayvon straddling him. It may have happened basically the way he has stated it happened, but I find it difficult to believe. I don't think it necessarily means GZ statements are false, but I find them troubling.

Another thing in relation to the shooting (assuming GZ's account is relatively accurate) is I wonder if GZ suffered the effects similar to waterboarding when his mouth was covered. If some water was getting in from the rain it might have caused him to feel like he was drowing or being asphyxiated, which causes physical fatigue and psychological resignation. This would not be apparent to medical professionals or physicians unless they specifically questioned him about it after the fact, which they didn't seem to address in court testimony, but perhaps I missed it. I think that might address why he used deadly force for some people that think he was not sufficiently injured or in fear for his life. MOO

 

[Moonie]

All I know is that I never want to reside in Florida. Disney World is the only thing saving that place, IMO.

 

[Harmony 2]

Hello! This is my first post here after years of lurking, and I don't at all mean to be rude, but you are not completely correct here. The American Heart Association has made some slight, yet significant, changes to the proper procedural steps for Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation in recent years. I know this because I am currently enrolled in a Basic Life Support for Healthcare Providers course which is certified and taught by the AHA.

While it is true that CPR is generally performed on people who have no pulse, the most up-to-date and official AHA BLS for Healthcare Providers Manual (2011) states on page three that there has been "...a change in the BLS sequence of steps from A-B-C (Airway, Breathing, Chest Compressions) to C-A-B (Chest Compressions, Airway, Breathing) for adults, infants, and children." We no longer check the breathing pattern/rhythm first because it takes time, and the chest compressions are seen as being more vital in saving the life of the patient.

In addition, it is no longer recommended that emergency responders perform blind finger sweeps, as this can cause or worsen a foreign body obstruction. We are taught attempt rescue breaths twice; if attempts at ventilation fail both times, you open the mouth and visually check for any obstruction. If you see something that is easily accessible, you grab it. If not, you continue on with further chest compression.

I hope this was a helpful post!

:Welcome1: Glad you joined us... :seeya: