IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[AbbeyR]

There are witnesses before and after that surveillance video was taken that give virtually the same description from different sources.

There are accounts that Lauren was seen at the bar unable to walk on her own. Acquaintances who spoke to the media reported what bad shape she was in, in no uncertain terms. Then, a few minutes after this video, we have another witness and possibly other surveillance video that reports again that she falls flat on her face, and that Corey is carrying, pulling and dragging her to get her to his place.

So, I don't really get the skepticism. The only conflicting report has been from Corey (via his lawyer) reported above, and he backtracked as soon as it became known that there was surveillance video.

IMO, it's redundant to 'leak' the same information by "another anonymous source" -- that's what I meant above. Presumably there are people in LE, in security for the building, etc. that have all seen the video, but may not be authorized to speak to the media.

In any case, I'm sure the contents of the video will come out at some point, so we'll see...

 

[AbbeyR]

Thanks for the heads up on that IDS article, Ix.

Here is the link: http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=94415

 

[akh]

IMO, it's redundant to 'leak' the same information by "another anonymous source" -- that's what I meant above. Presumably there are people in LE, in security for the building, etc. that have all seen the video, but may not be authorized to speak to the media.

I doubt the leaker was authorized to speak either.

Point being if there were scores of people who have seen the video then there should be scores of sources for other reporters (or the reporter in question) to talk to and develop further leads and info.

In any case, I'm sure the contents of the video will come out at some point, so we'll see...

I'm not so sure. I'm not certain it will be available to the civil suit (if it even makes it to trial) and I've seen no signs LE is any closer to naming a suspect and bringing it to a criminal trial. And they are clearly not interested in putting their cards on the table in hopes that the public can make a connection and bring something new to the case. And I don't know that they ever will be.

 

[Jupiter812]

I doubt the leaker was authorized to speak either.

Point being if there were scores of people who have seen the video then there should be scores of sources for other reporters (or the reporter in question) to talk to and develop further leads and info.



I'm not so sure. I'm not certain it will be available to the civil suit (if it even makes it to trial) and I've seen no signs LE is any closer to naming a suspect and bringing it to a criminal trial. And they are clearly not interested in putting their cards on the table in hopes that the public can make a connection and bring something new to the case. And I don't know that they ever will be.

Deja vu all over again. Yesterday was the three-year anniversary of the discovery of Bloomington resident Crystal Grubb's body. Still an unsolved case. A friend of Crystal's is quoted in the IDS: “It seems like every time there’s a big public awareness, that’s when the detective says ‘We’re close!’ Then nothing happens,” Moore said.

Rest in Peace Crystal ~ * ~

 

[akh]

Deja vu all over again. Yesterday was the three-year anniversary of the discovery of Bloomington resident Crystal Grubb's body. Still an unsolved case. A friend of Crystal's is quoted in the IDS: “It seems like every time there’s a big public awareness, that’s when the detective says ‘We’re close!’ Then nothing happens,” Moore said.

Rest in Peace Crystal ~ * ~

I suspect they might be closer in that case than this one. And that friend is right "Then nothing happens".

I do wonder if Bloomington is more gunshy in bringing charges compared to if these cases happened in a surrounding county? And if they are, I'm torn on whether that is good or bad. On one hand it's good if they need to be certain. On the other hand, it's bad if they are taking that desire for certainty to extremes.

 

[AbbeyR]

I doubt the leaker was authorized to speak either.

Point being if there were scores of people who have seen the video then there should be scores of sources for other reporters (or the reporter in question) to talk to and develop further leads and info.

Well, if it's true that the Spierers haven't even seen the video, my guess is it was leaked by LE or by someone who works for the security company or Smallwood who likely wouldn't be allowed to speak on the record.

But you're right, I think there probably was potential for other reporters to find sources and develop further leads and info. Unfortunately, there hasn't been much in the way of investigative reporting. Other than Shawn Cohen's articles, there has mostly just been the same recycled information. Even Gatto admitted he only talked to one source directly.

It's too bad. I wish, as you said earlier that someone would take this on. (Why haven't they??) There are a few angles that could be further explored that could have potential to shed light on this case, IMO.

 

[Chuz Life]

This attachment from the first post of the thread has the path with times. The only deviation we've been made aware of not depicted in that picture is when headed back to 5N, instead of continuing straight along the alley just west of Tenth and College, CR and LS turned right on 10th and went up the stairs to the front door of the building where there was an unsuccessful attempt to reach one of the girls that had been at JR's earlier that night.

The light blue of the path is verified via security camera, the red is speculated upon. Purse and keys were located right at the intersection of these paths, but supposedly off camera. You can see the spot (looking back south) in the last picture from this post.

I'm trying to retrace the exact route (if possible) that Lauren and David Rohn first took from Smallwood to 5N TowneHouse and the exact route (if possible) that Lauren and Corey Rossman took from 5N TowneHouse to Kilroys.

Are those routes known or have they been reported?

 

[AbbeyR]

As a side note, when I searched for that old article, I came across this interview with Shawn Cohen where he talks about the video in an interview:

What Do Lauren Spierer's Friends Know?Are fellow students holding back information?
[ame]http://video.foxnews.com/v/1125549163001/what-do-lauren-spierers-friends-know/[/ame]

There was a discussion here about this interview and whether SC might have viewed the video himself:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7060632&postcount=630"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22[/ame]

 

[imkeylime]

I suspect they might be closer in that case than this one. And that friend is right "Then nothing happens".

I do wonder if Bloomington is more gunshy in bringing charges compared to if these cases happened in a surrounding county? And if they are, I'm torn on whether that is good or bad. On one hand it's good if they need to be certain. On the other hand, it's bad if they are taking that desire for certainty to extremes.

It's a legitimate question, and I'm not sure there's a B&W answer. I've mentioned the OCCK case here before ... still pretty cold 35 years later. Along the way, at lease one suspect wasn't investigated thoroughly, due to familial clout (IMO). OTOH, the local press has run with this case since its inception ... how could it not? Some coverage was legit, some sensational. I know of at least one life that was destroyed during that process (i.e., witch hunt).

In addition, the parents were hounded, and not because they were suspects. I remember being in journalism class and hearing my instructor describe her visit with the last victim's mother (heart-wrenching). The press was relentless, but the families put up with it because they'd do anything to keep pressure on LE.

It now appears that the above suspect might have been the killer or at least knew the killer. Being investigated isn't the same as being charged, of course. Maybe LE just doesn't have enough evidence to charge anyone. If that's the case, we should expect the investigative process to be strong and ongoing. Hopefully, we can help the Spierers by keeping the pressure on and the case active.

 

[Jupiter812]

As a side note, when I searched for that old article, I came across this interview with Shawn Cohen where he talks about the video in an interview:

What Do Lauren Spierer's Friends Know?Are fellow students holding back information?
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1125549163001/what-do-lauren-spierers-friends-know/

There was a discussion here about this interview and whether SC might have viewed the video himself:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

Vedy interesting. I had not read that post before.

 

[Jupiter812]

It's a legitimate question, and I'm not sure there's a B&W answer. I've mentioned the OCCK case here before ... still pretty cold 35 years later. Along the way, at lease one suspect wasn't investigated thoroughly, due to familial clout (IMO). OTOH, the local press has run with this case since its inception ... how could it not? Some coverage was legit, some sensational. I know of at least one life that was destroyed during that process (i.e., witch hunt).

In addition, the parents were hounded, and not because they were suspects. I remember being in journalism class and hearing my instructor describe her visit with the last victim's mother (heart-wrenching). The press was relentless, but the families put up with it because they'd do anything to keep pressure on LE.

It now appears that the above suspect might have been the killer or at least knew the killer. Being investigated isn't the same as being charged, of course. Maybe LE just doesn't have enough evidence to charge anyone. If that's the case, we should expect the investigative process to be strong and ongoing. Hopefully, we can help the Spierers by keeping the pressure on and the case active.

Your bringing up this case always helps to put things into perspective, not to mention it is an interesting case. It's also interesting to see what an impression it has made on you--that you've grown up with it, yes? :coffeews:

 

[imkeylime]

Your bringing up this case always helps to put things into perspective, not to mention it is an interesting case. It's also interesting to see what an impression it has made on you--that you've grown up with it, yes? :coffeews:

It does put things into perspective, I'm afraid. And yes, it happened in my county (now JR's!). The four victims ranged in age from 10 to 12. I was a teen, so I didn't quite fit the profile. Still, it was pretty intense. It definitely affected my parenting ... I'm probably a bit too protective, LOL.

From it, I've learned that mistakes can be made, even in high profile cases. Blood-stained ligatures found at the suicide scene of the afore-mentioned suspect have been lost. Bye-bye DNA analysis. Also, thinking outside of the box is good, but thinking twice before attacking is important.

In terms of this case, it would help immensely if the POIs, including JW, would just take LE polygraphs. I'd also like to see ZO take one.

 

[Chuz Life]

We don't really know exactly what JR said to whom, only the information released via LE, PIs, or attorneys and then passed on through the media, which may phrase things differently than what JR actually said.

Here's another version: "One of those friends, Jay Rosenbaum, told police he saw her leaving the building and turning the corner of North College Avenue on her way home about 4:15 a.m."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-15-missing-IU-student-Lauren-Spierer_n.htm

I have wondered whether he actually said that she was alone when she turned the corner.

I have read accounts which say both.

1. That Lauren was last seen walking towards the corner of 11th and College.

and...

2. That Lauren was last seen "rounding the corner" and heading south on College Ave - in the direction of her apartment.

As impaired as Lauren was, I believe this is crucial to the case. There as a huge amount of construction taking place on the NW corner of that intersection. If she went North instead of South, there's no telling what or who she may have walked into.

If someone - driving by - seen her fall and stopped to help and then decided to take off with her??? Who knows?

But I would like to know for sure if she was actually seen "rounding the corner" and heading south towards Smallwood.

Can anyone say for certain what Rosenbaum testified to at this point?

 

[Btown]

I have read accounts which say both.

1. That Lauren was last seen walking towards the corner of 10th and College.

and...

2. That Lauren was last seen "rounding the corner" and heading south on College Ave - in the direction of her apartment.

Can anyone say for certain what Rosenbaum testified to at this point?

One would think that the Spierer's lawsuit would be accurate and specific on this point.

Lawsuit Page 5 #34.
"Unsuccessful at contacting others, Rosebaum acknowledged that shortly thereafter he allowed Spierer
to leave his residence on her own and briefly witnessed her walking in the direction of
11th Street and College Avenue in Monroe County, Indiana at approximately 4:30a.m."

Spierer Complaint Linky Thingy

 

[Chuz Life]

One would think that the Spierer's lawsuit would be accurate and specific on this point.

Lawsuit Page 5 #34.
"Unsuccessful at contacting others, Rosebaum acknowledged that shorthly thereafter he allowed Spierer to leave his residensce on her own and briefly witnessed her walking in the direction of 11th Street and College Avenue in Monroe County, Indiana at approximately 4:30a.m."

Spierer Complaint Linky Thingy

Thank's Btown.

I meant to say "11th" instead of "10th" in that post. (I corrected it with an edit)

To follow up.... was that a recollection of what Rosenbaum said or was that verbatim what Rosenbaum said?

 

[Jupiter812]

One would think that the Spierer's lawsuit would be accurate and specific on this point.

Lawsuit Page 5 #34.
"Unsuccessful at contacting others, Rosebaum acknowledged that shortly thereafter he allowed Spierer
to leave his residence on her own and briefly witnessed her walking in the direction of
11th Street and College Avenue in Monroe County, Indiana at approximately 4:30a.m."

Spierer Complaint Linky Thingy

It's enlightening to have had a few months' distance from when I first read the complaint. Today, what jumps out at me are two things:

CR says he needs "three more drinks at the bar" then he'll be "feeling good." IMO: He has just taken drugs and he knows from experience how many drinks are required to hit the buzz.

MB sure makes a lot of trips back and forth from JR's to his own apartment that night! Geez Louise!!!

Hey, MB, why didn't YOU take Lauren to her apartment when she was incapacitated and said she wanted to go home, huh? :stormingmad:

These guys are a bunch of losers.

 

[holly2325]

CR says he needs "three more drinks at the bar" then he'll be "feeling good." IMO: He has just taken drugs and he knows from experience how many drinks are required to hit the buzz.

snipped by me.
hi Jupiter. How about this... Maybe he is covering for any future accusations of supplying alcohol to LS at Sports. If for example there are receipts that trace back to him for 3 drinks, he has all ready implied he planned to drink all 3 himself.
just a thought.
edited to credit MB as the speaker.
Or rather MB has implied on CR's behalf that he intended to purchase 3 drinks for his own consumption at Sports.

 

[monkey222]

Chuz, Yes, agree..did she fall again in the construction debris and get picked up by a motorist? I close my eyes and imagine..what a petite young vulnerable pretty....blonde girl must have looked like.....long hair flipped messed up from CR over the shoulder sling fling...barefoot! NOTHING in hands..that is no phone. .no purse.. Nothing..nothing at all. AND with a bruised and I surmise..blood..gravel..debris maybe on her.. My thoughts go to a abused..or battered person getting out of Dodge at 4am.. Any motorist that saw this..male or female. ..would at least slow down and get a good look. My opinion.

 

[bx2]

Thank's Btown.

I meant to say "11th" instead of "10th" in that post. (I corrected it with an edit)

To follow up.... was that a recollection of what Rosenbaum said or was that verbatim what Rosenbaum said?

http://www.lohud.com/article/20110903/NEWS02/109030332?nclick_check=1

He was asked again to discuss what happened. Rosenbaum, who was the last person to report seeing her, was asked about prior reporting by The Journal News regarding his final interactions with Spierer. The paper, quoting friends of Rosenbaum, reported previously that Spierer visited him that morning, that he tried to get her to sleep over, but let her leave after she showed she could walk without stumbling. He said he then saw her rounding a corner on her way back to her apartment, the paper reported.

Asked about this account, he replied, “I confirm it.”

 

[Jupiter812]

snipped by me.
hi Jupiter. How about this... Maybe he is covering for any future accusations of supplying alcohol to LS at Sports. If for example there are receipts that trace back to him for 3 drinks, he has all ready implied he planned to drink all 3 himself.
just a thought.
edited to credit MB as the speaker.
Or rather MB has implied on CR's behalf that he intended to purchase 3 drinks for his own consumption at Sports.

I don't think so. See number 20. of the complaint. Sounds like there were witnesses who saw CR purchasing and providing her with multiple, additional drinks.

Although I don't know what is meant by "Upon information and belief..." in the complaint. Anyone?