PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[arielilane]

In my opinion, Ray Gricar was murdered, and the powers that be in PA were in no hurry to bring the necessary resources to bear, to solve it...if a DA disappears u wud think the governor would be having bi weekly press conferences and bringing state local and federal resources raining down on center county to solve it...but according to the Final Argument podcast, in episode 6, the podcaster said she was told by an insider on deep background, not for attribution, that authorities in Center County were told to "keep it in Center County"...

I've listened to a few episodes of Final Argument. Fascinating podcast and it appears to be detailed and well done thus far. Moo.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There was a story in the NY Daily News today, but nothing new. The quoted Bob Buhner, who died almost two years ago. Pennsylvania officials offer $5K reward in cold case of a prosecutor who vanished in 2004

 

[J. J. in Phila]

In my opinion, Ray Gricar was murdered, and the powers that be in PA were in no hurry to bring the necessary resources to bear, to solve it...if a DA disappears u wud think the governor would be having bi weekly press conferences and bringing state local and federal resources raining down on center county to solve it...but according to the Final Argument podcast, in episode 6, the podcaster said she was told by an insider on deep background, not for attribution, that authorities in Center County were told to "keep it in Center County"...

We have been through 6 AG's or Acting AG's since 2005. We have also had 4 governors. Centre County has had one acting and 3 elected DA's.

The political angle does not work.

 

[dotr]

This is the kind of case where a really huge reward might be bring more results than 5k, imo, speculation.

Pennsylvania officials offer $5K reward in cold case of a prosecutor who vanished in 2004

Ray Gricar, 59, was last seen on April 15, 2005.

nypost.com

June 6 2023

''Officials in Pennsylvania offered a $5,000 reward for information in the cold case of a missing prosecutor who vanished under mysterious circumstances more than 18 years ago.''

''The scene where Ray Gricar’s Mini Cooper was found did not suggest foul play, but family members were confused by the cigarette ashes inside.

Ray Gricar did not smoke, and his loved ones claimed he would not allow someone else to smoke in his vehicle.''

 

[arielilane]

Curious about these... are they not misleading? Misinformation given to the media? BBM

Pennsylvania officials offer $5K reward in cold case of a prosecutor who vanished in 2004

Ray Gricar, 59, was last seen on April 15, 2005.

nypost.com

The scene where Ray Gricar’s Mini Cooper was found did not suggest foul play, but family members were confused by the cigarette ashes inside.

Ray Gricar did not smoke, and his loved ones claimed he would not allow someone else to smoke in his vehicle.

[..]

Then, in 2011, the public learned that Gricar declined to prosecute disgraced former Penn State football coach Jerry Sandusky for child sexual abuse in 1998.

MOO

 

[Mr Yen]

Based on two testimonies that came out in the Final Argument podcast, Mr Gricar was on the phone, using a bluetooth device, both across the street from the museum in the park, and when he entered one of the stores at the Street of Shops when the worker said hello as he entered and Mr Gricar waived her off as if he was listening to something (i.e on a bluetooth device)...but his cell phone logs on that final day show he did not make or receive any calls during that time period, which means he had another phone, possibly a burner phone...why would he have a burner phone? Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[Betty P]

There was a story in the NY Daily News today, but nothing new. The quoted Bob Buhner, who died almost two years ago. Pennsylvania officials offer $5K reward in cold case of a prosecutor who vanished in 2004

Only $5,000? That's not very much to lure someone to talk. The article quickly brings up the "he probably committed suicide because his brother did a long time ago" excuse. Somewhat contradictory.

 

[Betty P]

Based on two testimonies that came out in the Final Argument podcast, Mr Gricar was on the phone, using a bluetooth device, both across the street from the museum in the park, and when he entered one of the stores at the Street of Shops when the worker said hello as he entered and Mr Gricar waived her off as if he was listening to something (i.e on a bluetooth device)...but his cell phone logs on that final day show he did not make or receive any calls during that time period, which means he had another phone, possibly a burner phone...why would he have a burner phone? Inquiring minds want to know...

Yes, to me that means he had another cell phone, perhaps a "burner" phone. It seems logical if, during an investigation, he needed to give informants, witnesses or tipsters a "safe" number to call to protect their identity until the time was right.

The witnesses who saw him talking on a bluetooth device were pretty clear in their testimony. Ray was walking around that downtown area for quite a while, talking to someone on his bluetooth cell phone device. The park where he was pacing around was at a busy intersection, as he appeared to be waiting for someone.

JMO, those don't sound like the actions of someone who was preparing to disappear or commit suicide.

 

[Mr Yen]

Let me also say i spoke to a sleuth whose opinion i trust and he said after spending a month on the case "what if he was meeting up for a intimate rendezvous, with someone he didnt know well enough, things went awry, he ends up dead and the perp panics and disposes of the body?"

Yea that is possible...his murder may have nothing to do with his DA role and maybe it had something to do with his personal life. But it is the police's job to uncover those threads of information about his personal life, and charge someone.

 

[Black Diamond]

Any news from Finsl Argument? She said a few months ago a new episode was coming in weeks.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Any news from Finsl Argument? She said a few months ago a new episode was coming in weeks.

Nothing since the last update.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just discussing RFG's disbelief in Roy, RFG did not seem to give a great deal of credence to psychological disorders. Here is a good example: Time Magazine 2001 Also consider that he did not continue to investigate Sandusky after receiving the letter from the psychologist; while it was not admissible, it could be the basis for further investigation.

RFG had a bit of a blind spot regarding mental health.

 

[Lorenathered]

I had stepped away from this case for a bit and was surprised to see such terrible comments about this area. I am born and raised in PA and am only 45 minutes from said area. PA has it's issues no doubt, as every area has it's corruption. But it is not the corrupt "mayberry" full of incompetent police like is being implied. I will have to brush back up on the facts of the case but last I had read up, I am still leaning towards the walkaway theory.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I had stepped away from this case for a bit and was surprised to see such terrible comments about this area. I am born and raised in PA and am only 45 minutes from said area. PA has it's issues no doubt, as every area has it's corruption. But it is not the corrupt "mayberry" full of incompetent police like is being implied. I will have to brush back up on the facts of the case but last I had read up, I am still leaning towards the walkaway theory.

I wrote extensively on the investigation. I began writing about it in 2009 and wrote the last part in 2014, but I looked at everything investigated from 4/15/05.

I concluded that, in the initial 48 hours, LE did a very good job. I think the sole criticism was that they should have gotten a composite artist to do a drawing of the Mystery Woman.

There were questions that should have been raised, however, after that. RFG had a very big capital gain; where was the money from that? RFG had an untraceable bank account. Why? Those questions were never asked.

 

[minazoe]

Ray Gricar is an enigma... if he disappeared , there was not professional security around...unless the very obvious
in clear view destruction of the laptop was staged to create a red herring..if he had to disappear perhaps he wanted to make it obvious that his roommate, PF , didn't have any important evidence in her possession.

If Ray Gricar was doing other things besides the things he was paid to do as a DA...it's very possible he could have been whisked off into some situation other than WP...His money, his identity and everything scrubbed..

what if they had to pull him out and gave him only days to sort it?...maybe he had to and had no choice, maybe he was always prepared and that's where his money went..it's a secret...a very intelligent man...very little investigation..lots of weird unexplainable details.

WP making dumb statements like he is NOT in WP when they would never ever tell anyway if he was..

Was Ray a secret agent man? a spy? I'm feeling it today..."they're giving you a number...and takin away your name..."

mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ray Gricar is an enigma... if he disappeared , there was not professional security around...unless the very obvious
in clear view destruction of the laptop was staged to create a red herring..if he had to disappear perhaps he wanted to make it obvious that his roommate, PF , didn't have any important evidence in her possession.

If Ray Gricar was doing other things besides the things he was paid to do as a DA...it's very possible he could have been whisked off into some situation other than WP...His money, his identity and everything scrubbed..

what if they had to pull him out and gave him only days to sort it?...maybe he had to and had no choice, maybe he was always prepared and that's where his money went..it's a secret...a very intelligent man...very little investigation..lots of weird unexplainable details.

WP making dumb statements like he is NOT in WP when they would never ever tell anyway if he was..

Was Ray a secret agent man? a spy? I'm feeling it today..."they're giving you a number...and takin away your name..."

mOO

The scrubbing would explain the capital gains nor the unknown bank account. WSP does permit you to retain your money.

Further, the PSP recommended a forensic audit.

 

[minazoe]

but they didn't do a forensic audit..they left stuff on the table...missing stuff..and honestly I think they can do wth they want.. seriously..how come no one really ever looked for Ray? it was cursory..it never spread out..so many loose ends. mOO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Pennsylvania Crimestoppers recently posted a release about the cold case offering a $5,000 reward for anyone who comes forward with information leading to Gricar's whereabouts.

The announcement comes almost two years after the death of Bob Buehner, one of the most vocal advocates for keeping the investigation active. Buehner, who was a former Montour County District Attorney, was friends with Gricar and spoke to him shortly before his disappearance. Buehner gave interviews to the media to bring awareness to the case up until the time of his death at the age of 69 on Sept. 4, 2021.

Gricar was last seen the morning of April 15, 2005, in Bellefonte. On that warm spring day, Gricar called Patty Fornicola, his longtime girlfriend, around 11:30 a.m. to tell her he had taken off work and was heading east on Route 192 toward Lewisburg in Union County. He was driving a 2004 red Mini Cooper with a white top and vanity plate, police say.

By 11:30 p.m. that night, Fornicola reported Gricar missing. He never came home, and she had not heard from him. The next day, the Mini Cooper was found in the parking lot of the Street of Shops antiques mall in Lewisburg. The car was locked, with no keys inside. The keys were never found, according to police.

There were cigarette ashes in the car. According to reports, Gricar disliked cigarettes and would not have allowed someone to smoke in the car. Gricar's cell phone, which was turned off, also was found in the Mini Cooper along with a bottled water. Gricar's DNA was found on the bottled water, indicating he drank from it.

For the next few years after Gricar's disappearance, investigators followed leads that led to dead ends, and formed plenty of theories on what happened to Gricar. Some think Gricar was a victim of foul play. Others believe he committed suicide. And some think he disappeared and started a new life elsewhere.

Buehner strongly believed Gricar was a victim of foul play. Buehner told NorthcentralPa.com in a 2021 interview that a state prison inmate had written him with information about his cellmate in Centre County, who may have been involved in Gricar's disappearance. The inmate told Buehner that Gricar had "ran afoul of a person who was in the witness protection program," Buehner said. The person was someone Gricar had prosecuted in Centre County and sent to prison…

The case for missing Centre County DA is still open 18 years after his disappearance

Lewisburg, Pa. — Eighteen years after the disappearance of Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar, the case is still open, according to state police at Hollidaysburg.

www.northcentralpa.com

 

[Betty P]

Pennsylvania Crimestoppers recently posted a release about the cold case offering a $5,000 reward for anyone who comes forward with information leading to Gricar's whereabouts.

The announcement comes almost two years after the death of Bob Buehner, one of the most vocal advocates for keeping the investigation active. Buehner, who was a former Montour County District Attorney, was friends with Gricar and spoke to him shortly before his disappearance. Buehner gave interviews to the media to bring awareness to the case up until the time of his death at the age of 69 on Sept. 4, 2021.

Gricar was last seen the morning of April 15, 2005, in Bellefonte. On that warm spring day, Gricar called Patty Fornicola, his longtime girlfriend, around 11:30 a.m. to tell her he had taken off work and was heading east on Route 192 toward Lewisburg in Union County. He was driving a 2004 red Mini Cooper with a white top and vanity plate, police say.

By 11:30 p.m. that night, Fornicola reported Gricar missing. He never came home, and she had not heard from him. The next day, the Mini Cooper was found in the parking lot of the Street of Shops antiques mall in Lewisburg. The car was locked, with no keys inside. The keys were never found, according to police.

There were cigarette ashes in the car. According to reports, Gricar disliked cigarettes and would not have allowed someone to smoke in the car. Gricar's cell phone, which was turned off, also was found in the Mini Cooper along with a bottled water. Gricar's DNA was found on the bottled water, indicating he drank from it.

For the next few years after Gricar's disappearance, investigators followed leads that led to dead ends, and formed plenty of theories on what happened to Gricar. Some think Gricar was a victim of foul play. Others believe he committed suicide. And some think he disappeared and started a new life elsewhere.

Buehner strongly believed Gricar was a victim of foul play. Buehner told NorthcentralPa.com in a 2021 interview that a state prison inmate had written him with information about his cellmate in Centre County, who may have been involved in Gricar's disappearance. The inmate told Buehner that Gricar had "ran afoul of a person who was in the witness protection program," Buehner said. The person was someone Gricar had prosecuted in Centre County and sent to prison…

The case for missing Centre County DA is still open 18 years after his disappearance

Lewisburg, Pa. — Eighteen years after the disappearance of Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar, the case is still open, according to state police at Hollidaysburg.

www.northcentralpa.com

Very good article summarizing Buehner's investigative work, assessment of the evidence and concerns about how the case was (or wasn't) handled by Bellefonte PD and the PA Attorney General's office (Tom Corbett)

Buehner also advocated for more manpower in the early days of the investigation. Initially, one detective from Bellefonte Police Department took on the case. The department was small and only had half a dozen officers. Buehner felt the case was better suited for the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office, but the attorney general at the time, Tom Corbett, did not take the case. Corbett was running for governor, and Buehner felt he didn't take on the case because an unsolved case wouldn't have looked good for his campaign.

 

[Betty P]

Very good article summarizing Buehner's investigative work, assessment of the evidence and concerns about how the case was (or wasn't) handled by Bellefonte PD and the PA Attorney General's office (Tom Corbett)

IIRC from Rebecca Knight's podcast, the Bellefonte PD detective was only part time at first. It's a small town, where Ray lived. For some reason, the prosecutors or AG decided to have Bellefonte handle the investigation, not the Penn State Police or other agencies better equipped to handle it. It was very frustrating for Ray's family and friends.