MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #3

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Piecing it together what makes most sense to me is: JW drank, probably a lot, & maybe smoked weed with them, around 2am he did fall asleep on the couch like he said, and he either saw them leave or walk toward the door or he just assumed later they left (which would be a normal assumption). I’m still on the fence whether or not he was aware & panicked that they were in the yard for the next two days or he was just oblivious with his own hangover, work, sleep etc. Also I obviously don’t know who supplied tne drugs that killed them. Sounds like Cocaine w/fentanyl.I really think JW didn’t do the drug that killed the other three because of where they were found. The two laying in the grass makes me think it happened immediately. No time for anyone to go inside or outside. They just dropped. And JW was asleep inside. Could change of course!
 
...Burning destroys fentanyl. Fentanyl is destroyed when it is burned including when it is in a joint, blunt or other means of smoking marijuana. This means that even if it is mixed with marijuana flower it will have no effect on a person who is smoking it."...
What about marijuana edibles? Maybe someone buys a bag of illegal street weed and decides to make some kind of edible.

What about a miniscule amount being smoked not burning? What about some flake of fentanyl on a rolling paper you lick or on your fingers?

It just takes a tiny amount to kill. Why feel so sure it can't happen? Better to caution people. I don't know why several people on this thread keep insisting it won't harm you if you smoke it. I worry about the gullible people that will believe your word is reliable like you know for sure and die- MOO. There must be some documented cases of deaths from smoking MJ laced with both fentanyl and that other substance mentioned upthread, so I wouldn't be so confident it's absolutely safe in every single instance. That's MOO.
 
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The very moment I read about the wine glass, I thought to myself “it’s a prop”
Same; as if to sell the idea that he was on a (totally legal) bender, and was oblivious to everything.

It’s also possible that he was in fact really on a bender. He could have of course instructed his lawyer to admit this, which would have helped to tamp down suspicions a bit.

Maybe he was concerned about ramifications concerning his job or something.
 
Was he tested though? They’d need probable cause for a blood draw warrant.
IMO/IME when you go into treatment one of the first things they do is a drug/alcohol test. I looked up how long Fentanyl can be detected in your system, and it varies widely depending on what type of test is used. Unless he submitted to blood testing when everything first happened, it wouldn't be detectable now unless he did a hair test.

Fentanyl will usually show up on a urine test between 24-72 hours after last use. Hair tests can detect the drug for up to 3 months, and blood tests can detect it between 5 and 48 hours after use depending on the dose.
 
One fact about most cocaine use is...

...There is never enough. It always runs out. It's expensive.

But when it runs out, the user crashes and can sleep like crazy. People coming down off meth or cocaine (which are quite similar after the first hour or so of metabolizing in the brain) can be virtually unrousable (pinprick studies, but tons of sad modern news stories, too - this is likely one of them).

So fentanyl is highly soporific, cocaine is too (once its immediate high goes away - and it can be pretty brief). Alcohol is a CNS depressant and soporific. Marijuana has variable effects, but is soporific for many.

The dose of fentanyl seems to be almost unsurvivable on its own, although that would depend on prior opiate use and tolerance. My guess would be that whoever set the doses up might have been a user (and therefore more tolerate) whereas the three deceased were probably not regular opiate users.

Hopefully, this tragedy will make many more people aware of this problem. OTOH, there is story after story about how dangerous street drugs are - and by region (MO has many fentanyl deaths per capita). Doesn't seem to be getting through.
That makes sense to me, which would also explain why one would want to appear disassociated from what happened.
 
If JW were to have participated in whatever drug was laced with fentanyl, but didn't consume a deadly amount, how would one feel the next 2 days? I'm assuming awful.

I remember taking a prescribed Oxycogin after a major operation to only feel hungover the next day. Once I made the connection between the pill and feeling awful, I immediately stopped. No wonder people become addicted!

With fentanyl being stronger, I could imagine JW basically going through withdrawal for the next 2 days and feeling awful.
A former employee of mine took a tab of Fent before she got pulled over and arrested, and was unconscious in the jail's medical for almost three days. So, if JW did partake (and I believe he did), that would explain why he was off the radar for two days.
 
One fact about most cocaine use is...

...There is never enough. It always runs out. It's expensive.

But when it runs out, the user crashes and can sleep like crazy. People coming down off meth or cocaine (which are quite similar after the first hour or so of metabolizing in the brain) can be virtually unrousable (pinprick studies, but tons of sad modern news stories, too - this is likely one of them).

So fentanyl is highly soporific, cocaine is too (once its immediate high goes away - and it can be pretty brief). Alcohol is a CNS depressant and soporific. Marijuana has variable effects, but is soporific for many.

The dose of fentanyl seems to be almost unsurvivable on its own, although that would depend on prior opiate use and tolerance. My guess would be that whoever set the doses up might have been a user (and therefore more tolerate) whereas the three deceased were probably not regular opiate users.

Hopefully, this tragedy will make many more people aware of this problem. OTOH, there is story after story about how dangerous street drugs are - and by region (MO has many fentanyl deaths per capita). Doesn't seem to be getting through.
This is not new and there is no way that people don't know it. Druggies are going to be druggies. Plain and simple. MO used to have a terrible Meth problem and I think it was called the Meth capital at one time.
 
The very moment I read about the wine glass, I thought to myself “it’s a prop” *like I said, I’m a bit cynical.

We have different kinds of wineglasses (stemmed and stemless). Right now, I'm drinking orange juice out of a red wine glass. Don't know why. But I almost never use, say, brandy snifters (even if I'm drinking brandy) and almost always use wine glasses because I like them.

I have a stemless wineglass with water on my nightstand. At any rate, I do believe it was a kind of prop - a familiar object that provides security. For some people, it might be their sunglasses (even if indoors). Others, it's a wine glass (or old fashioned glass). For some it's their phone. But grabbing an object that's familiar when strangers come to the door is indeed kind of like having a Boppy/Stuffed animal for some people.

IMO.
 
Yeah, it’s impossible to make a firm conclusion either way. I’m not buying the account provided by the homeowner, but there’s nothing that proves it’s not true. I don’t know if there was a crime committed, and certainly don’t know what the specific crime would be.

I think there’s a good chance the only legal action we see taken is in civil court.
But what would that action be? You can't be charged for surviving a drug overdose? At this point in time, the different narratives between Al and JW will be the only thing that people will care about. Especially if it is proven that some of the deceased as well as surviving attendees brought drugs to the party. In that, both surviving attendees will be reading from the same songbook.
 
A former employee of mine took a tab of Fent before she got pulled over and arrested, and was unconscious in the jail's medical for almost three days. So, if JW did partake (and I believe he did), that would explain why he was off the radar for two days.

And why his story is so garbled and why his memory is unclear and why his lawyer says he was "sleeping."

Most people who have an Rx for fentanyl have worked their way up to that Ultimate Synthetic Opiate via other opiates. And there is medical need for pain control, for many people. Some of us have bad reactions to anything in higher concentration than codeine. Some of us cannot tolerate the natural opiates at all - but can tolerate the synthetics. IOW, some people have an immediate and negative reaction to natural opiates (and some have it to synthetics).

But one thing is for sure: fentanyl is way stronger than morphine. Stronger than heroin.

Do some groups of men think it's a contest? To see who can do the heaviest drug? (I ask about men because, well, way more of them are dying of fentanyl overdose). Trying to understand.
 
I do feel that if JW did take part, he would have wondered if his friends had the same reaction. That’s why I find it odd that he never looked around or tried to make contact when he finally came to.
If JW did ingest alcohol plus weed, I think he passed out on the couch rather than fall asleep.

If JW had ingested the same drug laced with fentanyl as the three victims, I really think he'd be the 4th dead man whether he was inside the house or not.

JMO
 
What about marijuana edibles? Maybe someone buys a bag of illegal street weed and decides to make some kind of edible.

What about a miniscule amount being smoked not burning? What about some flake of fentanyl on a rolling paper you lick or your fingers?

It just takes a tiny amount to kill. Why feel so sure it can't happen? Better to caution people. I don't know why several people on this thread keep insisting it won't harm you if you smoke it. There must be some documented cases, so I wouldn't be so confident it's absolutely safe in every single instance. That's MOO.
I don't recall insisting it wasn't harmful if smoked, just that there isn't one documented case of fentanyl laced marijuana, the dea has never issued a warning, nor documented a case, per my link. Reading the link further it states...

Vape pen temperatures are too low​


What about vape pens? Most commonly available vape pens don’t reach temperatures over 450 degrees Fahrenheit. This is because higher temperatures will destroy the substances they are intended to be used with including marijuana. Vape pens would have to reach temperatures closer to 900 degrees Fahrenheit to vaporize fentanyl. Even if the marijuana is contaminated or mixed with fentanyl, the fentanyl would be destroyed before it’s absorbed.

Liver breaks down edibles​


Could fentanyl impact a person if it’s baked into a brownie or put in some other kind of edible? The answer is that the risk is very low because fentanyl is broken down by the liver, with little chance of reaching the brain.

No profits to be made​


According to Leafly[1], a site devoted to the sale of marijuana products, it doesn’t make sense to add fentanyl to marijuana from a cost standpoint. They offer this example: “…a weed dealer would have to spend $40 on a fentanyl patch, successfully extract the drug from the patch, and then “lace” a $30 gram of their best weed to live up to these fantasies. In a best-case economic scenario, the dealer is losing $10 on every sale.”

Police and media mistakes​


Some police and media outlets have claimed fentanyl-laced marijuana, but lab tests show these claims were errors. Unfortunately, the corrections don’t make headlines like the initial claims.

No DEA alerts​


The government has drug testing and monitoring systems in place to track the makeup of illegal substances. Any significant spike in cases involving this combination would likely be detected and reported immediately. The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) has recently issued alerts[2] about fentanyl-laced fake pills like Percocet and Vicodin for pain relief, Adderall to treat ADHD and Xanax to address anxiety. They have also warned about fentanyl laced with Xylazine which is used to sedate animals. They have not issued alerts about marijuana.
Further, there are about 55 million[3] people in the U.S. who use marijuana. We would see overdose rates far higher than they are today if fentanyl was in the marijuana supply.
It’s more important than ever to think about where we get our information. Sometimes, news stories want to grab our attention by making things sound scarier than they really are. When it comes to the idea of marijuana mixed with fentanyl, trust information from reliable sources, like scientists and health experts. By looking at the facts, we can make better decisions about our health and not get caught up in unnecessary worry"

Now this article is just an expert in the field, who provided their resources so that's not to say it is the absolute truth. Anything is possible! I would definitely think touching marijuana with fentanyl dust on the bag or inside could definitely cause at the very least a reaction. I will agree it's likely they consumed it unknowingly, but more likey, the cocaine was cut with it or it was in pill they through was Xanax. Xanax is used by casual users for "coming down" because the cravings are described as insatiable. The DEA has released warnings about fentanyl disguised as Xanax or pain pills, they've also issued warnings about fentanyl being using to cut things like cocaine. There are addicts that use fentanyl every day, they use it because they can't find heroin. It's terrible. Many of them live on the street and beg or worse to feed their fentanyl addiction. I have loved ones I've lost over this addiction. I would never intend to imply anything is impossible nor suggest fentanyl addiction and over dose isn't anything to worry about.
 
I realize that people had different reactions to the cousin's accusations that JW "the chemist" messed up & created a "bad batch" of drugs and gave those drugs to the group. I admit I don't find his account credible.

Regardless, when the cousin said that, apparently family members had already been told about the preliminary tox results. And per recent reporting from AC, family members knew the men had ingested triple the lethal dose of fentanyl. IF the cousin believed what he was saying about JW's culpability, what did he think happened? Obviously JW did not "manufacture" cocaine in a secret lab. Is he saying JW purchased cocaine but cut it with too much fentanyl? Why would a "friendly" drug supplier put ANY fentanyl in cocaine? I don't get it. MOO
 
Well for starters I don't think it was hypothermia.
Not totally impossible but doubtful, imo.
This is why this case has garnered so much attention, besides it being unusual for all three to succumb in one night ?
Omo.
The one that never left the lawn chair does it for me.
It makes me think it was quick whatever took these men down. One took to a chair, the others moved a short distance.
Maybe they all decided to go out back for some air, to look at the sky, maybe they were hallucinating, maybe one thought he might throw up so they all went out back.
IDK if it was alcohol or drugs that rendered them unmovable - then they froze …or what.
But the guy never leaving that chair.
It was quick IMO.
 
A Wine Glass?

snipped for focus @imstilla.grandma
Thx for reminder about JW w wine glass in hand answering door for LE.

Who knows what kind of glassware a bachelor has?
Mason jars? Red Solo cups? Jelly jars? Maybe restaurant wine glasses etched w logos for Mardi Gras or SuperBowl, as giveaways? idk

As @Rigatoni999 noted: guys,football. It wasn't a TEA PARTY w pinky fingers in the air.
I believe one of the early MSM reports on this story quoted JW's attorney as saying that the wineglass JW had in his hand contained water--am I making this up? My point being, lots of people just grab whatever kind of glass is handy when they're getting themselves some water, OR they have a preference for a certain type of glassware and use it for all their beverages. I don't think JW answering the door with a wineglass in his hand means he was definitely using it to drink alcohol at the time.
 
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What about marijuana edibles? Maybe someone buys a bag of illegal street weed and decides to make some kind of edible.

What about a miniscule amount being smoked not burning? What about some flake of fentanyl on a rolling paper you lick or on your fingers?

It just takes a tiny amount to kill. Why feel so sure it can't happen? Better to caution people. I don't know why several people on this thread keep insisting it won't harm you if you smoke it. I worry about the gullible people that will believe your word is reliable like you know for sure and die- MOO. There must be some documented cases of deaths from smoking MJ laced with both fentanyl and that other substance mentioned upthread, so I wouldn't be so confident it's absolutely safe in every single instance. That's MOO.
I don't recall insisting it wasn't harmful if smoked, just that there isn't one documented case of fentanyl laced marijuana,....snipped to reply
You didn't really answer any of my questions or address the situations I posed that would still mean it's not completely safe to have in your possession marijuana laced with fentanyl in every situation under every condition. Yes, thank you for your reply with some info. Please know I'll look over the info you posted, @fsngruv, and take it into consideration if it's legit; however, I'm more concerned people will feel confident that it could never happen- a death from MJ laced with fentanyl. I believe in some instances it can happen. You are not a physician or a doctor, AFAIK, so I'd be careful advising any kind of medical advice. MOO That is my own opinion.

Posting because I mentioned that other substance before, but this isn't related to the MJ subject specifically.
 
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The one that never left the lawn chair does it for me.
It makes me think it was quick whatever took these men down. One took to a chair, the others moved a short distance.
Maybe they all decided to go out back for some air, to look at the sky, maybe they were hallucinating, maybe one thought he might throw up so they all went out back.
IDK if it was alcohol or drugs that rendered them unmovable - then they froze …or what.
But the guy never leaving that chair.
It was quick IMO.
Bbm.
That is so sad and chilling ! :(
Still amazed that whatever they partook of, acted so swiftly on all three men !
Maybe not totally instant, but fast enough that none of the trio had time to dial 911.
Omo.
 
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