CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #23
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Bobbi Pearl
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Maybe thus why the WM walked as far as he did. And as far as we know did not use a vehicle.
he could just as easily left a bicycle along the route and then rode through areas of no cameras after he passed #59
Bobbi Pearl
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Wow I had not heard this one before. The Supreme Court using the wording assassin, wow. How do go from LE thinking murder suicide for 6 weeks and then 4 yrs later infer it was done by an assassin. What evidence do they have.
Supreme Court make decisions based on facts and evidence, not media news article information we have.
definition of assassin
1.
a person who murders an important person for political or religious reasons.
"he was shot dead by an unknown assassin"
But how is the estate deeply entwined if this was an assassination ? And just to note for what MS suggested the murder was possibly a religious matter she could be correct?
Lexiintoronto
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What makes you say he’s dumb?
Sorry, that was irony...
ETA: he/they are seemingly the opposite of dumb. I believe killers make deliberate choices in how they behave, in order to commit the crime without getting caught. Making dumb mistakes is how they get caught, and one of those is underestimating police.
Like Col. Russell Williams, who never imagined his fancy snow tires would give him away...etc, etc.
JMO
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I have always been of the belief that he was dropped off and picked up on Leslie St close to the 401.
Out of the blue speculation, imo,-
Wondering if the killer(s) reads here?
Are they happier now?
Scared of getting caught?
If it was for money alone, are they enjoying it?
Do they feel guilty, can they sleep at night, are they haunted by ghosts? (i like that idea)
Wondering if the killer(s) reads here?
Are they happier now?
Scared of getting caught?
If it was for money alone, are they enjoying it?
Do they feel guilty, can they sleep at night, are they haunted by ghosts? (i like that idea)
Lexiintoronto
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Absolutely, vehicle identification is a very very important factor in many solving cases.
I am very familiar with the Gilgo Beach cases known as the LISK killings. In that case the the alleged killer's vehicle was identified by the boyfriend of a victim. That makes sense as he would have some interest in what vehicle his girlfriend got into and disappeared.
I do not think the criminal(s) involved in the Sherman's deaths are dumb at all. Maybe that is why the Walking Man is a walking man, not a driving man! Much harder to describe a person than a car with license plates.
BTW, The Moon phase for 13 December 2017 Wednesday 12:00 UTC was a Waning Crescent 20% illuminated, so a relatively dark night. The Cloud cover was, partly cloudy, to passing clouds and by 11:00pm it was declared overcast.
Let us say it was your job to kill the Sherman's, why would you choose to kill them in their house.
From a technical point would it be easier to kill them at home rather than someplace else?
If the manner of death, by strangulation, and the staging were somehow significant then the home location is extremely important.
To strangle someone you need time and privacy. That leads me to wonder, was the choice of ligature strangulation a technical choice or a symbolic choice? Seems to me a firearm or edged weapon would have been simpler.
Maybe somebody involved has an aversion to blood?
As I feel the actual killers, were not the direct beneficiaries of the Sherman's deaths, but were working for someone else. who would be concerned most about all these issues?
Maybe someone who is somewhat sensitive,(no blood). Someone who sees the Old Colony home as significant in some way to the Sherman's or the relationship with the perpetrator(s).
MOO
From a technical point would it be easier to kill them at home rather than someplace else?
If the manner of death, by strangulation, and the staging were somehow significant then the home location is extremely important.
To strangle someone you need time and privacy. That leads me to wonder, was the choice of ligature strangulation a technical choice or a symbolic choice? Seems to me a firearm or edged weapon would have been simpler.
Maybe somebody involved has an aversion to blood?
As I feel the actual killers, were not the direct beneficiaries of the Sherman's deaths, but were working for someone else. who would be concerned most about all these issues?
Maybe someone who is somewhat sensitive,(no blood). Someone who sees the Old Colony home as significant in some way to the Sherman's or the relationship with the perpetrator(s).
MOO
This is solely me speculating: I think this was a murder for hire and I don't think that the fake murder/suicide staging was something particularly requested by the person who did the hiring. I think the person who procured the murder simply wanted something that was quick, quiet, and efficient. My guess is that the contractor suggested the staging as a way of sowing confusion and perhaps buying some extra time, and that murder by strangulation was within the contractor's skill set (ex-military or ex-intelligence). I don't think the contractor thought the murder-suicide staging would fool LE forever, but the contractor(s) would be long gone by then.
Window21
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A few things have been going around in my head. All just speculation.
* If this was a "hit" job, I wonder what would the payment deal be? For example, would the person pay the "hit man" half the money up front and the other half after the job was done?
* Also, would the payment be more than 30 million? (the amount of the reward money offered)?
* Plus, I often wonder if someone were to dump millions into my account would that trigger some alarm or flag on my account that the bank or crypto or bitcoin would then be alerted to this large dumping of money into my account?
Just curious, thats all. We know money was no object for these people, so being paid well into the millions for killing 2 people doesn't seem far fetched in my mind.
I just got done watching YT with Rotten Mango. She did a huge 1 hour 40 video on this case and it was very well done. She mentioned that the urban explorer went into the house which we are all aware of, but then she said he uploaded his images on Reddit and within minutes he got a cease and desist from the Sherman family. Is that part true? I was unaware he got a cease and desist from them.
Thanks guys, I tend to lose track of the thread for several months then I pop back on to read the updates and my mind get going again on this case. Frustrating it's been years and still nothing...
* If this was a "hit" job, I wonder what would the payment deal be? For example, would the person pay the "hit man" half the money up front and the other half after the job was done?
* Also, would the payment be more than 30 million? (the amount of the reward money offered)?
* Plus, I often wonder if someone were to dump millions into my account would that trigger some alarm or flag on my account that the bank or crypto or bitcoin would then be alerted to this large dumping of money into my account?
Just curious, thats all. We know money was no object for these people, so being paid well into the millions for killing 2 people doesn't seem far fetched in my mind.
I just got done watching YT with Rotten Mango. She did a huge 1 hour 40 video on this case and it was very well done. She mentioned that the urban explorer went into the house which we are all aware of, but then she said he uploaded his images on Reddit and within minutes he got a cease and desist from the Sherman family. Is that part true? I was unaware he got a cease and desist from them.
Thanks guys, I tend to lose track of the thread for several months then I pop back on to read the updates and my mind get going again on this case. Frustrating it's been years and still nothing...
Targetted killings by mercenary or assassin killings usually have some kind of money trail if they are hired killers. Does it appear that LE may be trying to follow the money to see if this is the case, especially relating to some money being paid in some foreign country?
The killer was strong enough to drag both bodies into the pool area but not as strong/violent in strangling them to break both hyoid bones. The pool room may have been chosen because it was an area that was not used by both of them.
How many pounds of pressure does it take to break the hyoid bone?
<modsnip - copyright> (Both of their hyoid bones were not found to have been broken.)
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Lexiintoronto
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Honey had survived throat cancer, so it seems especially cruel to have strangled her, imo.
Would applying around 22-33 lbs of pressure also injure the killer's hands somehow?
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Yes, this is something that puzzles me. The sheer amount of money in the circle that surrounds this crime makes me think that it would not have been so hard to hide a hired killer's fee in some kind of shell transaction. On the other hand, it would be harder to hide the money given that IMO I do not think the murders were planned a long time in advance. I think it was just a few weeks.
Another theory I had is that the Shermans held a large amount of cash at their house. I'm sure both were conscious of the dangers of anti-Semitism and Honey had direct experience of persecution and wartime flight, so that might make a person inclined to store cash. Plus, Honey's family, like many new immigrants of any ethnicity, may have believed in keeping cash on hand. If we believe the murder to be an inside job the person who commissioned the murder may have told the perpetrator how to access this cash.
Although the Shermans weren't particularly concerned about security a wall safe seems like a possibility, based on the report of the urban explorer about holes punched in the wall.
- The strangulation was by ligature, so no hand pressure or injury to hands likely. Less chance of hyoid bone breakage I believe when even pressure by ligature.
- Payment to assassins' by crypto-coin or other 'dark money' methods would be extremely difficult to track.
- Setting up the staging for a fake suicide takes time and effort. I believe there are indications that the criminals were in the home for over an hour. Did they believe that the staging would slow the police up or was there another purpose?
- My feeling was the staging was done for another purpose rather than to confuse and delay the police investigation and that could point to the the perpetrators identity.
Hi, what do you think the purpose was?
I think one possible purpose was to hide the bodies longer by keeping them in the least-used room.
I think another possible purpose was some kind of message or story or closure. What that would be, I don’t know. Some sort of sense of ceremony for the killer(s)? Maybe even amusement for the killer(s)? A wry inside “joke”? A punishment? Putting them on “display” to humiliate or shame them? Tying their death forever to the ugly pool they never used? Showing some sort of dignity vs leaving them in a heap? — who knows.
The staging was not a small amount of work. This suggests it was important to the killer(s). I believe it had meaning to the killers(s). Even if tongue in cheek. This suggests to me at some level the killer(s) cared about the Shermans. And/or had some contrition about leaving them unceremoniously dead on the floor. MOO.